Towing with Tesla Model X

[2kwik4u]

I just remapped my tow to the beach through ABRP using 900Whr/mi @ 65mph as the usage, with a 165kWh pack. Drive time is about the same as with the ICE, but I need 6 stops along the way for a combined charging time of 3hr 55min. Total travel time was just under 16hr. We made that trip home in June with the Q7 on 4 stops with a total time of about 13hrs. So a 3hr increase in elapsed time......from a planning perspective that's pretty much a wash to be honest.

We left heading south at like 4am, and the kids/grandma would sleep through the first two stops anyway. Then if we could make one stop lunch. I'm sure it's not an absurd issue to deal with, just a change in routine.

I'm still stuck on short local tows though. I need just over the 135mi towing range (at 1kWhr/mi) to make it to a few lakes. Ugh. Gonna have to bribe the boss to let me test tow my boat behind his truck when it comes in. Get some real usage numbers to see if it will work or not.

 

[tabbibus]

I just remapped my tow to the beach through ABRP using 900Whr/mi @ 65mph as the usage, with a 165kWh pack. Drive time is about the same as with the ICE, but I need 6 stops along the way for a combined charging time of 3hr 55min. Total travel time was just under 16hr. We made that trip home in June with the Q7 on 4 stops with a total time of about 13hrs. So a 3hr increase in elapsed time......from a planning perspective that's pretty much a wash to be honest.

We left heading south at like 4am, and the kids/grandma would sleep through the first two stops anyway. Then if we could make one stop lunch. I'm sure it's not an absurd issue to deal with, just a change in routine.

I'm still stuck on short local tows though. I need just over the 135mi towing range (at 1kWhr/mi) to make it to a few lakes. Ugh. Gonna have to bribe the boss to let me test tow my boat behind his truck when it comes in. Get some real usage numbers to see if it will work or not.

What happens if you fall short in your test drive?! Will you be stranded?

 

[2kwik4u]

What happens if you fall short in your test drive?! Will you be stranded?

I figured we would take a shorter known good route to get usage data without venturing far enough away to get stranded.

Once I have some feeling for how much energy it actually takes to pull my boat at my driving style then I can extrapolate that data out to know the actual usable range. I know it won't be 400Wh/mi and it won't be 1kWh/mi, but it's somewhere in between. Once I have that I can determine if actual range will meet expectations for day trips to local lakes. I'm right on the cusp of making it, and the difference in 100Wh/mi can make/break a couple of the destinations for me.

 

[Tyguy]

Keep in mind eventual battery degradation depending on how long you keep it. Different brands suffer varying rates and it's hard to say how the Rivian will perform. Battery pack cooling/heating capabilities, charging habits, and cell materials and construction methodology will play into how each vehicle will be impacted. The flip side is that more chargers will become available the longer you own the vehicle, and the less impactful battery degradation will come into play.

I definitely don't consider the Cybertruck vaporware. There are running prototypes including a new test mule, and Tesla has a track record of releasing promised vehicles. They may be late, but they do release. With the 4680 cell being readied for production by both Panasonic and Tesla in Texas and Berlin, I'm 100% confident the Cybertruck is coming. Both Texas and Berlin have received materials and equipment for 4680 manufacturing to start early next year, and according to Panasonic, costs will be about half of what the current cells run, which is critical to making the Cybertruck possible.

 

[2kwik4u]

Keep in mind eventual battery degradation depending on how long you keep it. Different brands suffer varying rates and it's hard to say how the Rivian will perform. Battery pack cooling/heating capabilities, charging habits, and cell materials and construction methodology will play into how each vehicle will be impacted. The flip side is that more chargers will become available the longer you own the vehicle, and the less impactful battery degradation will come into play.

I've wondered about degradation of battery pack. I knew it as a thing, but hadn't really considered it as a long term issue. Lots of talk about low maintenance on an EV, however this seems to be generally not talked about when researching EV's. You're exactly right that the corollary is that more fast charging stations will spring up over time, reducing the impact of that degradation. Interesting thoughts.

I definitely don't consider the Cybertruck vaporware. There are running prototypes including a new test mule, and Tesla has a track record of releasing promised vehicles. They may be late, but they do release. With the 4680 cell being readied for production by both Panasonic and Tesla in Texas and Berlin, I'm 100% confident the Cybertruck is coming. Both Texas and Berlin have received materials and equipment for 4680 manufacturing to start early next year, and according to Panasonic, costs will be about half of what the current cells run, which is critical to making the Cybertruck possible.

I don't think the cell tech is the issue with the Cybertruk. I think the new manufacturing processes to make a SS exoskeleton happen will be a larger hurdle. I think Tesla can climb some of the other hurdles rather quickly and easily. Much like GM has climbed the GMC Hummer hurdle rather quickly, they just had to reposition various already learned technologies to create this particular package. The Cybertruks relative "out of sight out of mind" position isn't helping. Rivian has been putting on public displays of capability for awhile now, and you haven't seen any of that from Tesla on this front.

 

[Tyguy]

I don't think the cell tech is the issue with the Cybertruk. I think the new manufacturing processes to make a SS exoskeleton happen will be a larger hurdle. I think Tesla can climb some of the other hurdles rather quickly and easily. Much like GM has climbed the GMC Hummer hurdle rather quickly, they just had to reposition various already learned technologies to create this particular package. The Cybertruks relative "out of sight out of mind" position isn't helping. Rivian has been putting on public displays of capability for awhile now, and you haven't seen any of that from Tesla on this front.

That's Tesla's style. They don't need the POTUS to sell vehicles for them.

I disagree about what will be most challenging with the truck. We already know how to cut, bend, fold, and weld stainless steel, and the factory that will supply the raw material has been built within close proximity of Tesla Austin. The SS exoskeleton is a derivative of current technology and processes. Battery cell technology is much harder to make half as expensive because it's new tech, and they've already cleared that hurdle. Why would they be testing a second gen mule out of the public's eye if they weren't advancing their plans?

 

[2kwik4u]

@Tyguy This isn't their test mule is it?

Ride-On Tesla Toys for Kids | Radio Flyer

Made with authentic Tesla details, these ride-on cars offer a premium experience for little riders. Shop ride-on Tesla toys for all ages at Radio Flyer.

www.radioflyer.com

Sorry, couldn't help myself

 

[adrianp89]

@Tyguy This isn't their test mule is it?

Ride-On Tesla Toys for Kids | Radio Flyer

Made with authentic Tesla details, these ride-on cars offer a premium experience for little riders. Shop ride-on Tesla toys for all ages at Radio Flyer.

www.radioflyer.com

Sorry, couldn't help myself

Ok but where is the adult version lol

 

[Tyguy]

Cool! Is it just me or does that thing look a little tippy? High CG, narrow wheelbase, children....what could go wrong?

 

[2kwik4u]

Cool! Is it just me or does that thing look a little tippy? High CG, narrow wheelbase, children....what could go wrong?

It looks a LOT like the 24V Razor my 3yr old rides. His first 5 minutes he pitched himself off it and rolled it down the little hill in the front yard. No suspension and LOTS of steering angle doesn't help the case any.



I'm honestly not convinced at this point that it isn't different body work on the Razor frame. Suspension, steering, and rear axle assemblies all look entirely too similar to be coincidence.

 

[Tyguy]

I think you're spot-on, 2wkik4u. It would make sense to use an existing platform and dress it up a bit.

 

[2kwik4u]

I think you're spot-on, 2wkik4u. It would make sense to use an existing platform and dress it up a bit.

Check out the rear disk and swingarm assembly on this page:

Dirt Quad - Razor

The Razor Dirt Quad brings unlimited adventure. The electric four-wheel Dirt Quad is built strong and sturdy to conquer tough trails and big bumps.

razor.com

It's gotta be the same thing.....but like $1,300 more for the Li-Ion battery pack, additional 12V of potential, and body work.

 

[thefortunes]

Check out the rear disk and swingarm assembly on this page:

Dirt Quad - Razor

The Razor Dirt Quad brings unlimited adventure. The electric four-wheel Dirt Quad is built strong and sturdy to conquer tough trails and big bumps.

razor.com

It's gotta be the same thing.....but like $1,300 more for the Li-Ion battery pack, additional 12V of potential, and body work.

150# vs 120#
10mph vs 8mph
90minute vs 40minute

 

[2kwik4u]

150# vs 120#
10mph vs 8mph
90minute vs 40minute

Same Chassis. Different electronics.....arguably just barely. I'd bet money it's the same motor and speed controller Razor uses on it's 36V motorcycles. I have one of those in the garage too.

Rear Swingarm from Razors site:


Rear swingarm from RadioFlyers site:


The welds are even in the same location. They DID change the chain guard though. and add a grab bar.

Front frame assembly from Razor:


Front frame assembly from Cyberquad:


If Tesla didn't buy the chassis from Razor, they copied it.

 

[thefortunes]

Same Chassis. Different electronics.....arguably just barely. I'd bet money it's the same motor and speed controller Razor uses on it's 36V motorcycles. I have one of those in the garage too.

Rear Swingarm from Razors site:
View attachment 167803

Rear swingarm from RadioFlyers site:
View attachment 167804

The welds are even in the same location. They DID change the chain guard though. and add a grab bar.

Front frame assembly from Razor:
View attachment 167805

Front frame assembly from Cyberquad:
View attachment 167806

If Tesla didn't buy the chassis from Razor, they copied it.

Not saying it isn't built by Razor, just pointing out the differences.

Make one of these for adults and I'll take a look.

 

[2kwik4u]

Not saying it isn't built by Razor, just pointing out the differences.

Make one of these for adults and I'll take a look.

Check out Volcon. Not a quad, but an EV fat tire motorcycle. Cool stuff!

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Not saying it isn't built by Razor, just pointing out the differences.

Make one of these for adults and I'll take a look.

I think the big issue for adult use is battery life (range). While its cool for kids doing loops around the farm, maybe not so much for an adult who wants to do serious off-roading. If I'm hitting the trails I want something that I can ride all day. If I want to make a weekend out of it, all I need is a extra one or two 5 gallon gas cans. I don't see any non-ICE options for this at the current time.

I checked out the Volcon website. They do indeed have some cool stuff that may indeed for useful for day-to-day farm and maybe ranch use.

Jim

 

[thefortunes]

I think the big issue for adult use is battery life (range). While its cool for kids doing loops around the farm, maybe not so much for an adult who wants to do serious off-roading. If I'm hitting the trails I want something that I can ride all day. If I want to make a weekend out of it, all I need is a extra one or two 5 gallon gas cans. I don't see any non-ICE options for this at the current time.

I checked out the Volcon website. They do indeed have some cool stuff that may indeed for useful for day-to-day farm and maybe ranch use.

Jim

Agree, although I think the more typical use is shorter than all day.

When we had the lake house we had a couple ATVs that we would ride over to a 300 acre off-road motorcycle and ATV park. We would ride for a couple hours and ride back home. Maybe put 75 miles on total (probably more like 50). A 5-6kWh battery would cover that and weigh 50-60#.

Slap a fast charger on it (recharges that 5-6kWh battery in an hour) or make it swappable (or both).

 

[2kwik4u]

@thefortunes @Jim_in_Delaware
I think swappable is the answer there. Think kids RC cars. Thermals with the motors/controllers is rarely the issue. It's always energy capacity. Get a large enough bank of batteries, and a charger that can recover overnight and you could essentially ride all day. Humans will want food and restroom breaks more often than you'll run out of power.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Agree, although I think the more typical use is shorter than all day.

When we had the lake house we had a couple ATVs that we would ride over to a 300 acre off-road motorcycle and ATV park. We would ride for a couple hours and ride back home. Maybe put 75 miles on total (probably more like 50). A 5-6kWh battery would cover that and weigh 50-60#.

Slap a fast charger on it (recharges that 5-6kWh battery in an hour) or make it swappable (or both).

I totally understand what you are saying, and perhaps this is the more common use of ATV's. This kind of EV would also be good for tours, which typically are 1- 2 hours long.

When we take out our own UTV's, we tend to take them out for the day. For example if we do a multi-day trip to the McCoy Trail system in WV, we will drive them to the trail head (usually gassing up on the way), spend the entire day on the trail (pack a cooler) and then drive back to wherever we are staying.

Jim