Towing with Tesla Model X

[BlkGS]

I agree here. A pickup built on a suburban chassis. Rode and drive like the big SUV, but had the usefulness of a pickup. Even had a 2500 version with the 8.1L gas engine that made over 500ft-lbs in factory trim. Could also get the Escalade EXT version that had all the fancyness packed in and maintained the utility. Sadly they killed it off due to poor sales numbers. Had a good friend that LOVED his Avalanches. I think he had like 4 or 5 of them over the years. Always loved that they had the same usecase and versatility as his fullsie 4 door pickups, but didn't ride like "hay wagons" when empty.
Here's a cool looking 2500 Avalanche. Video isn't great, but the opening shots are nice.

Probably the best version I've seen was the Duramax swapped Escalade EXT from the guys at Duraburb. Put a Duramax/Allison combo into a 2500 chassis Avalanche, then literally body swapped over an Escalade. Had to put a 2in body lift to get the escalade to fit, but then lowered the suspension 3 in to make it look REALLY close to stock. Put a tune on the engine and were getting something like 20mpg from it on the highway, but retained the 11k tow rating. Was a really cool setup, and I want to say they made like 2 or 3 of them.

The Rivian is honestly pretty close to a "baby avalanche" if you think about it. No mid gate, but has the same "unibody" feel with a more SUV chassis under it than the pickup it represents. Ridgeline and SportTrac have the same "feel" to them, but are decidedly midsized compared to the Rivian. SportTrac was an explorer chassis with a bed instead of a hatch. Ridgeline is a Pilot with a bed, or rather a hacked off hatch since it looks "unibody". Rivian and Ridgeline do share the same assinine spare tire storage idea of putting it under the bed floor. Hope you don't have anything in the bed when you get a flat, otherwise it's unpack, change, repack. I think this is a misstep for Rivian honestly as it also eliminates the option for a slide out tray in the bed that all the overland guys seem to like to access gear under the tent.

GMC made the Envoy XUV for awhile too that had that wacky retracting roof, and raiseable center wall to make a weatherproof open air "bed" out of the rear hatch of an SUV. I don't think the "look" helped it's case much either. Sales numbers weren't great and it didn't last long.

2005 GMC Envoy XUV: Prices, Reviews & Pictures - CarGurus

www.cargurus.com

The midgate was honestly the most brilliant part of the avalanche. It had side boxes too, that were lockable. It was so far ahead of its time. It also sold quite well, I think that's really why they killed it off, it dug into regular silverado sales too much, while using up capacity at the suv plants. Gm should innovate a way to do this again on the silverado lines, take the frame from a reg cab longed or extended cab longbed, give it a crew cab Supersport bed with a midgate, and profit.

The XUV was a neat idea, kinda the opposite execution, and while it made sense in theory, I feel like it never delivered.

 

[BlkGS]

Yea, I think 7,700 is enough. Depends on where they put the GCVWR.....I'll look into it and figure it out. Figure your 242LS is somewhere around 5,500 or so if I remember right.

Gotta keep in mind, an EV truck will weigh consider more than an ice truck of similar size. That's gonna eat up that gcwr fast.

 

[2kwik4u]

Gotta keep in mind, an EV truck will weigh consider more than an ice truck of similar size. That's gonna eat up that gcwr fast.

I would expect they would increase GCWR accordingly. Similar to moving to a 2500 pickup, curb weight goes up, combined weight goes up. Nature of the beast.

GCVWR (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating) on my Sierra was along the lines of 16k I think (I'll have to look it up to be certain). I wouldn't be surprised to see Rivian have a 20k or more combined rating. 11k towing and a payload of 1.4k with a curb weight in the 7.7k range.....Rough guess is a combined rating of around that 20k mark.

I'm having a hard time finding either right this moment though. I'll have to dig deeper later to really look into it.

 

[Tyguy]

I agree with 2kwik4u. The EV trucks will be heavier than their ICE counterparts...much heavier...but that will be taken into account so as not to take away from towing and loading capabilities.

I'm curious to see how the extra weight impacts offroading. Some situations will be better and others worse, I imagine. It'll be fun getting the Cybertruck over to Moab for some fun on the rocks and compare it against the Wrangler Rubicons we're more accustomed to.

 

[Peelz]

I agree with 2kwik4u. The EV trucks will be heavier than their ICE counterparts...much heavier...but that will be taken into account so as not to take away from towing and loading capabilities.

I'm curious to see how the extra weight impacts offroading. Some situations will be better and others worse, I imagine. It'll be fun getting the Cybertruck over to Moab for some fun on the rocks and compare it against the Wrangler Rubicons we're more accustomed to.

rivian is 7000+lbs. I agree want to see Cybertruck in action.

 

[BlkGS]

Do they have charging stations at Moab? Lol

 

[Peelz]

Do they have charging stations at Moab? Lol

LOL no but Thats rivians goal. Putting them at popular "outdoorsy" spots like national parks.

https://electrek.co/2021/07/21/rivian-partners-with-tennessee-to-deploy-charging-stations-at-all-state-parks/

heres their total proposed map.

https://electrek.co/2021/03/18/rivian-reveals-map-planned-fast-charging-stations-wall-charger/

 

[BlkGS]

I would expect they would increase GCWR accordingly. Similar to moving to a 2500 pickup, curb weight goes up, combined weight goes up. Nature of the beast.

GCVWR (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating) on my Sierra was along the lines of 16k I think (I'll have to look it up to be certain). I wouldn't be surprised to see Rivian have a 20k or more combined rating. 11k towing and a payload of 1.4k with a curb weight in the 7.7k range.....Rough guess is a combined rating of around that 20k mark.

I'm having a hard time finding either right this moment though. I'll have to dig deeper later to really look into it.

Isn't it supposed to be mid-size? An 11k tow rating seems highly unlikely, especially if it's truly midsized, or at the minimum it would suck to actually tow that much with. It'd get tossed around like crazy I would think with a short length.

 

[Tyguy]

Do they have charging stations at Moab? Lol

Sure do, right next to a hotel downtown.

But that's Tesla.

 

[Tyguy]

Checking out the third-party charging options, looks like some have popped up in Moab, too. Most are slow, Level 2 or lower, but 5 spots are Level 3.

 

[thefortunes]

Checking out the third-party charging options, looks like some have popped up in Moab, too. Most are slow, Level 2 or lower, but 5 spots are Level 3.

For level 3. other than four Tesla, I only see one CCS and one CHAdeMO?

(Which is one of the problems with non-Tesla chargers - there typically are only 1-2 which will not be enough as EVs become more mainstream)

 

[Tyguy]

I agree, non-Tesla charging is a bit of a challenge and we avoid them. I looked up the Moab chargers on chargehub, but they may have been including the Tesla chargers in their Level 3 listings. If so, the numbers don't quite make sense, but that's third-party for you. It'll get better.

 

[thefortunes]

I agree, non-Tesla charging is a bit of a challenge and we avoid them. I looked up the Moab chargers on chargehub, but they may have been including the Tesla chargers in their Level 3 listings. If so, the numbers don't quite make sense, but that's third-party for you. It'll get better.

FYI Plugshare might be a better tool.

 

[2kwik4u]

Check this dude out. We're about to get a TON or towing data as he drags his Mustang from Detroit to LA with a Rivian!

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[Peelz]

Check this dude out. We're about to get a TON or towing data as he drags his Mustang from Detroit to LA with a Rivian!

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thats fantastic.

Ill watch this.

 

[2kwik4u]

thats fantastic.

Ill watch this.

So far, it's not looking great for getting new data. He's only posting relative charge rates, not State of Charge between stops, speeds on highway travel, or any level of energy usage along the way.

Not sure why he's under a gag order, but it's sketchy as dammit as far as I'm concerned.

Have gotten a few tidbits of info. GVWR is 8532lbs


With a tow rating of 11k that puts GCWR at 19.5k. I missed it by |..| that much.

he has also mentioned that he's making better time by charging more often (at higher rates), instead of trying to charge to 100%, then max range between stops. Interesting tactic. I will say that the trip from South Bend to Sikeston, MO is 471 miles (going through Lafayette, IN), and has shown at LEAST 5 different chargers along the way so far. Indicating he's going less than 100mi/charge on average at this pace. Probably due to the "charge more, drive less" plan of attack......If I was a guessing man, they're in the 700-800Whr/mi range of energy usage. 900+ gets them into a point where they wouldn't be able to make 100mi on a charge (with 10% reserve). He mentioned somewhere of charging from like 30%-85% then taking off, that's a 55% of the capacity used for a leg, that is averaging around 78mi/leg (471mi/6legs) you get 859Whr/mi average.

This is all speculation off VERY limited data though.

I really wish we knew why he had a gag order on his range numbers

 

[Peelz]

So far, it's not looking great for getting new data. He's only posting relative charge rates, not State of Charge between stops, speeds on highway travel, or any level of energy usage along the way.

Not sure why he's under a gag order, but it's sketchy as dammit as far as I'm concerned.

Have gotten a few tidbits of info. GVWR is 8532lbs
View attachment 167474

With a tow rating of 11k that puts GCWR at 19.5k. I missed it by |..| that much.

he has also mentioned that he's making better time by charging more often (at higher rates), instead of trying to charge to 100%, then max range between stops. Interesting tactic. I will say that the trip from South Bend to Sikeston, MO is 471 miles (going through Lafayette, IN), and has shown at LEAST 5 different chargers along the way so far. Indicating he's going less than 100mi/charge on average at this pace. Probably due to the "charge more, drive less" plan of attack......If I was a guessing man, they're in the 700-800Whr/mi range of energy usage. 900+ gets them into a point where they wouldn't be able to make 100mi on a charge (with 10% reserve). He mentioned somewhere of charging from like 30%-85% then taking off, that's a 55% of the capacity used for a leg, that is averaging around 78mi/leg (471mi/6legs) you get 859Whr/mi average.

This is all speculation off VERY limited data though.

I really wish we knew why he had a gag order on his range numbers

prob had a gag order getting free charges or something....beta tester


can confirm, stopping more often and charging just to get what you need for next charge saves time. It does this by way of highly ramping up kw rate early in the percentage of the battery, then tailing off. This is better for battery life, and to not create too much heat. Batteries are happiest at mid range.

We stopped 7 times @ 20min-ish each headed to Colorado, right at 1000 miles, headed uphill and FAST. 6 times on the way home, downhill and more chill lol

that added about 1.5-2 hrs vs driving and gassing(estimate) but 1/3 the cost.

towing will obviously mess that up. but the cost will help.

 

[thefortunes]

...
he has also mentioned that he's making better time by charging more often (at higher rates), instead of trying to charge to 100%, then max range between stops. Interesting tactic.
...

Assuming level 3 (fast DC) charging, this strategy is always best due to the tapering of the charge.

For example, my model 3 can charge at 250kW (which is about 1000 miles per hour) at peak, and tapers down to 100kW (400mph) around 60% state of charge and 55kW (220mph), at 80% SoC.

What does that mean?
From 5% to 60% SoC (adding about 175 miles of range) takes about 10 minutes.
From 60% to 80% (about 64 miles of range) takes about 10 minutes.
From 80% to 90% (about 32 miles of range) takes about 10 minutes.
90% to 100% should ALMOST never be done at a level 3 charger when you are traveling - too slow.

I rarely charge above 70% when traveling, unless we are sitting down for a meal or something else is causing us to stay there longer.

Note that the above is just an example off of one charge. Ambient temperature, other cars charging, etc... will affect your results.

 

[tabbibus]

Vehicle software should be smart enough to tell the driver how to charge and remove guest work. When doing road trips, the Tesla routing software never has me topping off at superchargers.

 

[2kwik4u]

Assuming level 3 (fast DC) charging, this strategy is always best due to the tapering of the charge.

For example, my model 3 can charge at 250kW (which is about 1000 miles per hour) at peak, and tapers down to 100kW (400mph) around 60% state of charge and 55kW (220mph), at 80% SoC.

What does that mean?
From 5% to 60% SoC (adding about 175 miles of range) takes about 10 minutes.
From 60% to 80% (about 64 miles of range) takes about 10 minutes.
From 80% to 90% (about 32 miles of range) takes about 10 minutes.
90% to 100% should ALMOST never be done at a level 3 charger when you are traveling - too slow.

I rarely charge above 70% when traveling, unless we are sitting down for a meal or something else is causing us to stay there longer.

Note that the above is just an example off of one charge. Ambient temperature, other cars charging, etc... will affect your results.

I get it. Just not immediately intuitive for us petrol heads that are used to a constant "range per unit time" addition.

I think I've asked this before, but do you build in a reserve on range for each leg of a long trip? My level of "boy scout" varies based on where I'm at and what I'm doing. I'm curious how having an EV will affect that mentality for me. I'm also doing some thought experiments on things like "how often have I needed that extra range I've been planning for?" and things like that.