Towing with Tesla Model X

[BlkGS]

@BlkGS

https://www.thedrive.com/news/44248/ram-electric-pickup-will-have-a-combustion-range-extender-ceo

That article is a poster child for not letting journalism majors speak.

His comments about it adding cost are way off base.. By far the most expensive part of an EV is the battery. If you size down the battery packs to a modest range that's a Massive cost savings. At the same time, a small generator motor is in the range of a couple hundred bucks. Space, similarly is saved and the energy density of a fuel tank is massively higher than that of a battery pack. Even if you lost the frunk of an EV, most truck buyers could care less, because you have a cab and a bed.

You can absolutely make something like this cheaper and more effective than a battery only EV. In fact, I'd say it's harder to make a range extended truck be more money and less useful than a pure battery truck.

I get that still using gas isn't as sexy sounding as mythical totally clean battery cars powered by free energy that's clean and has no drawbacks in this magical unicorn world.. But reality is, if you want to actually move things forward, you need to include gas, and if you do that via a range extender, you get all the benefits with none of the drawbacks outside of incredibly minor amounts of emissions, and the lack of turning on a coked up wall st banker.

 

[Peelz]

I'm not totally unsold on the x5 plug in hybrid. The xc90 t8 plug in hybrid would be an option if it towed more, but it only tows 5000lbs. Couple that with a turbo super hybrid 4 cylinder made by a Chinese owned company... I'd want the best warranty money could buy on it. The BMW tows 6000 lbs, gets the full rebate, and isn't that much more money. Reliability is questionable being German, and size is also a maybe too small, but I suspect it's in the right range of sizing. It's a bit more money even with the tax credit than something like a gx460, which is admittedly slower, but also tows more and will last longer and need less repairs and money into it.

And that's my rub in the end. I'm not going to save enough in fuel to ever make up the purchase price difference. So there's no benefit for me, so I'm not gonna do it. And if the government tries to legislate ICE to be more expensive, I'm gonna be pissed and vote theose a holes out. Frankly, I'm kinda pissed my tax dollars are funding EVs for rich people in the first place. I've long said the ev credit should cap at an msrp of 35 to 40k to encourage EV growth in economic commuters, not 100k toys for the rich.

I don't get my kicks as some eco crusader, and while I try to do what I can to help be good to the planet, I don't think that switching to an electric car would do as much good as forcing the developing world to meet tight emissions controls or be tariffed into oblivion. I don't think the way to solve the issue is by forcing people out of the cleanest vehicles in the world (more or less) and into electrics. Especially not in the middle of a supply chain clusterf that's worldwide, and especially not when the largest factories in the world operating are in China burning the dirtiest and cheapest coal they can find. And at the end of the day, the supply chain for EVs runs through China, whether it's materials to upgrade the grid, materials to build new power generation, renewable energy, or even just parts for EVs, it all is gonna come from the dirtiest polluter in the world, possibly with some slave labor involved, definitely with a lot of human rights abuses.

Hasnt the govt. already been legislating ICE cars to be cheaper for decades? Now, they're just stopping it. I'm weary of taxes subsidizing oil companies, why not electric infrastructure?? My opinion is, Solar, wind, hydro, even nuclear.....ALL better than diggin ancient(and finite) energy from the ground. I don't feel like anyone's forcing anything for me. There will still be ICE cars and trucks for a LONG time. here in the USA, resistance to change is in our DNA.

I'm not convinced of the tax credits or rebates anymore at all for buyers. I think they've done what was needed, the market is speaking, and the companies are listening. I will buy another EV with or without a tax incentive... Would be nice, I Suppose, but meh, already bought ours without. Put that money into the(non tesla) charge infrastructure now, and drive competition.

Tesla...as well as the others its still new, and using expensive flagships to build a brand isn't really new or controversial. It gets people excited, and gets money flowing, which in turn gets you development and "people in the door", so to speak. the GM dealer I worked at always had some weird car that wasn't "really" for sale on the floor, so people could get jazzed... and it worked. So, we'll see if price can go down. Tesla seems a bit hamstrung by their musk fanboy base, and are going the wrong way most of the time, but they could be getting it worked out with their new factory and the bigger battery cells.

I know other companies are working hard, That Hyundai EV looks pretty sweet, but it's REALLY tough for me to want to put money into that company. Iv'e never been in or near a hyundai that was worth a damn. lol But its pretty cool. Get the price down, get me a decent charge network, I might reconsider.

 

[BlkGS]

When we drove a new palisade it was REALLY nice. The Koreans make larger strides in quality in a model generation than any other brands do in 3 generations of cars. The difference in a Hyundai from 10 or 20 years ago is mind boggling. I worked on some early 00s Hyundai that were cheap pieces of crap. By 2010 they were as nice as anything non luxury. Now they're competing above their class. The new Genesis are so insanely nice, they're making the German lux brands look stupid. The downside to Hyundai is all their power trains are kind of boring, and overall they don't deliver the thrust that their specs would indicate. Their styling can be a bit... Not for me as well.

I get the argument about the US subsidizing oil and whatnot... But I was more of talking about the absurd stuff like CAFE, Carb regulations, and other emissions levels that are created by a bunch of morons who donated to the right campaigns and got out in positions of authority. They make these rules and regulations out of thin air with no bearing in reality, and then obfuscate them and add in loop holes to the point that the standards are pointless, and one unintentional screw up by the aforementioned morons makes the whole thing not work. CAFE doesn't need to exist at all, because consumer already drive the market towards higher fuel efficiency. Get rid of CAFE and the automakers would still push for fuel economy as a competitive advantage.

The carbon credit market is just stupid. That whole system should be completely removed. All its doing I pushing the carbon off to a different point in the chain, and creating an artificial cash flow source for a handful of companies.

I personally think at this point, EVs should be able to stand on their own feet and play by the rules. No more avoiding the franchise system. No more tax credits, let them stand on their own like any other car. Hell, regular car dealers are selling them now, so why does Tesla or any other company need special treatment if vw and audi and GM and Hyundai and whoever can sell them like normal? People can say what they will about the franchised dealer system, but it is the law, and companies should be w forced to comply.

 

[2kwik4u]

Laws are mutable. The franchise system is ignorant at best, and a scam at worst. I can buy everything else in my life direct, why can't I buy a car that way? I, personally, think the whole thing should be dismantled and rethought. Of course I think the same thing about healthcare, but that's a can of worms for another thread

I do agree the carbon credit system is dumb and needs to go away. I do like @BlkGS idea on the MSRP being the limiting factor on tax incentives. Really like @Peelz idea to put the tax incentive into infrastructure instead.

There is a 9 pages thread in the Q7 that stirred a lot of shit recently when someone asked why the Q7 was better than a Telluride/Pallisade. Much of the rhetoric was the same as your response. They've made great strides, but they still aren't there yet. In fairness a Telluride SX is the same price, and arguably nicer than a base Q7, add just a few options, and the Kia can't keep up (both literally and figuratively) any longer. Compare a Genesis GV80 to a Q7, and you've got a much tougher run.

I agree most automotive journalists aren't technically savvy enough to be opining on what they are writing about. Gotta take that stuff with a grain of salt I think. The really bad editing and lack of proofreading bothers me way more than the slightly off base commentary you'll get from time to time.

 

[Peelz]

Laws are mutable. The franchise system is ignorant at best, and a scam at worst. I can buy everything else in my life direct, why can't I buy a car that way? I, personally, think the whole thing should be dismantled and rethought. Of course I think the same thing about healthcare, but that's a can of worms for another thread

I do agree the carbon credit system is dumb and needs to go away. I do like @BlkGS idea on the MSRP being the limiting factor on tax incentives. Really like @Peelz idea to put the tax incentive into infrastructure instead.

There is a 9 pages thread in the Q7 that stirred a lot of shit recently when someone asked why the Q7 was better than a Telluride/Pallisade. Much of the rhetoric was the same as your response. They've made great strides, but they still aren't there yet. In fairness a Telluride SX is the same price, and arguably nicer than a base Q7, add just a few options, and the Kia can't keep up (both literally and figuratively) any longer. Compare a Genesis GV80 to a Q7, and you've got a much tougher run.

I agree most automotive journalists aren't technically savvy enough to be opining on what they are writing about. Gotta take that stuff with a grain of salt I think. The really bad editing and lack of proofreading bothers me way more than the slightly off base commentary you'll get from time to time.

We agree more than we might think honestly lol

Ive heard that about Hyundai. I felt that way about fords for years too... but they came back. Also, Late 90's GM cars... barf.

A lot of things we "know" are just experiences we had along the way that create biases. Such as, my anti Hyundai "rhetoric" comes directly from when I rented one in Rochester New York IN 2006. It was an absolute hunk of garbage that felt like it would disintegrate when it hit those NY potholes. LOL that trip is stuck in my melon

 

[BlkGS]

There is a 9 pages thread in the Q7 that stirred a lot of shit recently when someone asked why the Q7 was better than a Telluride/Pallisade. Much of the rhetoric was the same as your response. They've made great strides, but they still aren't there yet. In fairness a Telluride SX is the same price, and arguably nicer than a base Q7, add just a few options, and the Kia can't keep up (both literally and figuratively) any longer. Compare a Genesis GV80 to a Q7, and you've got a much tougher run.

Honestly, outside of performance and towing, palisade/Telluride is better than almost everything else on the market. It's by far the nicest interior this side of a GLS, or a Genwsis. About the only knocks on it are the moonroof is split with the front being manual, and it doesn't have a handful of rare features, like night vision or a family camera. If the telluride had dual exhaust it'd visually be the best on the market IMO. I will say, I wish it was like 6 inches longer, then you could fit a stroller behind the 3rd row. How that's not a design target that every crossover meets, I have no idea btw.

I came away impressed enough by the palisade to look at gv80, and wow is that nice. It's like, Bentley nice in design and stuff. Too nice for me, lol.

 

[BlkGS]

We agree more than we might think honestly lol

Ive heard that about Hyundai. I felt that way about fords for years too... but they came back. Also, Late 90's GM cars... barf.

A lot of things we "know" are just experiences we had along the way that create biases. Such as, my anti Hyundai "rhetoric" comes directly from when I rented one in Rochester New York IN 2006. It was an absolute hunk of garbage that felt like it would disintegrate when it hit those NY potholes. LOL that trip is stuck in my melon

Well, in their defense, there's not too many vehicles that would survive that, lol.

 

[2kwik4u]

Here's an interesting take. All electric 2500 pickup from a known player in the EV market.

We Drive An Electric GMC Sierra And An Old Tri-Motor Tesla

This Magna EtelligentForce-powered prototype is our first contact with a proper heavy duty EV designed for hard work and towing and it was quite impressive.

insideevs.com

 

[gkallevig]

There will come a day, sooner than we think, that you won't be able to buy gasoline except for a very few places--and it will be very expensive. Don't get me wrong, I love internal combustion engines. I just rebuilt/restored a '92 Blazer I bought new. L94 V8, 6L80E six speed transmission. 450 HP, 450 Ft/Lb of torque on the dyno. I love that truck. But electric is coming on fast, and is going to come faster. First, gas will get cheap as demand drops. Yea! Then, as stations close and the vast delivery network shrinks to near nothing, gas will get very, very expensive. I don't know when this will happen, but I am certain it will happen far sooner than anyone now dreams. Such has almost always been the way of technology advancement. If they get energy density to be better than it is now, it will be really, really cool. Imagine a dead silent AR240 with massive torque and near zero maintenance... Just plug it in when you get back to the slip--never a fuel stop. If we don't get a revolution in energy density, boating is going to get very, very difficult.

Anyways, I'm going to order a Tesla soon--either a Model 3 or a Model Y. Because it seriously makes no sense to buy any car but a Tesla right now. Towing, that's a different story--for now. Within the next couple of years--or sooner--that will change too.

just randomly reading some threads on here...i'd say we're in about the same spot today as when you posted, no? No better energy density, still tough to find a charge station, towing still brutally tough with electric due to energy consumption... gas got expensive but not for the reasons you stated lol.

 

[adrianp89]

just randomly reading some threads on here...i'd say we're in about the same spot today as when you posted, no? No better energy density, still tough to find a charge station, towing still brutally tough with electric due to energy consumption... gas got expensive but not for the reasons you stated lol.

Not sure when he posted that, but did you expect something drastic in ~18 months? IIRC max range of cars has gone up over 100 miles since then.

 

[BlkGS]

Not sure when he posted that, but did you expect something drastic in ~18 months? IIRC max range of cars has gone up over 100 miles since then.

But at what $ cost?

Energy density is the issue, as well as cost. Those two are going to be tough to crack. The auto industry has poured billions into EVs to build a bunch of exceptionally expensive vehicles. The Mach E is roughly the size of the Edge yet costs double. The Mach E isn't that much faster than the edge ST either, for a lot more money, and frankly I bet the edge st is faster around a track with equal rubber, despite being a pretty mundane fwd platform.

EVs really are a hole you pour money into right now. I don't know that anyone outside of Tesla will really see an ROI. I hope they do, because the effects on the industry and economy will be devastating if they don't, but that's a LOT of money being dumped into a niche market.

 

[2kwik4u]

EVs really are a hole you pour money into right now.

Math doesn't really support that hypothesis.

Just priced a gently used AT4 with the 3.0L Duramax. It's listed at $58.9k. Link to that truck
Priced a Rivian at $81.2k (I can't figure out how to link the configuration).
For all intents and purposes, these are equitable trucks in terms of capability.
The only glaring difference is range on a fillup. 600+miles on the expressway for the AT4, 300-ish in the Rivian. Twice as many stops (and an extra hour or two clock time on the trip) on the road trips most take only a few times a year.

Some assumptions:
15k mi/yr (I drive closer to 19k mi/year, but everyone varies a bit)
I charge the Rivian at home at $0.15/Kwh (My last bill was actually $0.125/kWh)
Diesel is $5.15/gal at the pump
AT4 gets 23mpg (closer to 17mpg towing)
Rivian uses 400Wh/mi (closer to 800Wh/mi while towing)
$7,500 tax credit is still available (We can argue the validity of this subsidy forever, but it exists, and we're taking advantage of it)

Total cost, just looking at fuel and purchase price is $2,460 LESS for the Rivian over a life span of 105k miles and 7 years. The savings become more pronounced (or breakeven happens sooner) if we look for a new AT4, OR we get a gas engine, or BOTH. If you want to add maintenance in there, we can add some $/mi figures if you like. It'll be easy to add to the sheet, but I think will only serve to strengthen the EV's position financially.

Here's the math:


In general.....IMO, these numbers are with the margin of error in use cases between people. It'll be a win for some and a loss for others. In general though, we're really close (9% subsidy on total purchase price) to having the market drive these prices. I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm guessing that the $7.5k tax credit for EV purchase is less than the total money invested to subsidize E85 (Which was $4.05/gal at the pump this morning). So, again, we can argue the validity of that subsidy until we're blue in the face, but it exists so we should plan on using it.

Further, and this is all opinion on my part, I think the market is speaking loudly when there are waitlists for EV's. Someone is going to capitalize on them, and the market will like continue to explode for several years at this level. Now, I think we can draw a corollary with iPads in education. They were a HUGE fad a few years back, and lauded heavily as the "next big thing" in education for kids. Take a look at most schools now, and they've moved away from iPads, HOWEVER, digital learning still exists heavily and is mostly propped up with lower cost, more financially efficient tools like Chromebooks. I can see a similar arc happening here. We get the top performers out in the market, find the good/bad/ugly about them, then another manufacturer will come along and find the sweet spot of value, and that will become more of the standard.

No matter which way you slice it, it's an interesting time for transportation!!

 

[adrianp89]

^^ Those are very conservative numbers and it still comes out in EV favor.

Of course that is with todays high gas prices. What it look like at $4 gallon?

 

[GTBRMC]

I have a few general questions back to original topic (as opposed to a lot of the pro/con EV discussion, which is also interesting):

Does anyone have a good feeling for any EV that is oriented toward towing boats?
Clearly torque should be a major EV strength, but I am not sure about the possibility of immersing at least part of the battery pack, etc.
What about the trailer connections? Electric brake trailer controls?

Not sure an EV truck is attractive for towing long distances (Dallas to Fort Lauderdale, etc) but it sure seems VERY attractive for < 1 hr to the ramp and back - which I am sure makes up the majority of boat towing trips. Would really like to understand the towing-specific and dunking at the ramp details.

 

[adrianp89]

I have a few general questions back to original topic (as opposed to a lot of the pro/con EV discussion, which is also interesting):

Does anyone have a good feeling for any EV that is oriented toward towing boats?
Clearly torque should be a major EV strength, but I am not sure about the possibility of immersing at least part of the battery pack, etc.
What about the trailer connections? Electric brake trailer controls?

Not sure an EV truck is attractive for towing long distances (Dallas to Fort Lauderdale, etc) but it sure seems VERY attractive for < 1 hr to the ramp and back - which I am sure makes up the majority of boat towing trips. Would really like to understand the towing-specific and dunking at the ramp details.

Even in our Wrangler (4XE), water still doesn't get to the vehicle, so I don't think this would be an issue. If your vehicle has to get wet at the ramp, I think some other solutions need to be considered.

 

[2kwik4u]

^^ Those are very conservative numbers and it still comes out in EV favor.

Of course that is with todays high gas prices. What it look like at $4 gallon?

Some slightly changed assumptions

$0.1032/kWh - From here - US Average. HI is highest at $0.325/kWh
$4/gal fuel
Changed to a brand new LT Trailboss with the 6.2L (similar 300-350mi range on highway here)
16mpg average $4/gal gas
It got worse for the ICE.....don't even need the $7,500 tax credit here.



If we go back to the used AT4 is flops the other direction, but just barely.


Again, I think we're really in a position where usage and location will play as big of a part in the math as selection of comparable vehicle. We can swing it either way pretty easily.

 

[BlkGS]

Math doesn't really support that hypothesis.

Just priced a gently used AT4 with the 3.0L Duramax. It's listed at $58.9k. Link to that truck
Priced a Rivian at $81.2k (I can't figure out how to link the configuration).
For all intents and purposes, these are equitable trucks in terms of capability.
The only glaring difference is range on a fillup. 600+miles on the expressway for the AT4, 300-ish in the Rivian. Twice as many stops (and an extra hour or two clock time on the trip) on the road trips most take only a few times a year.

Some assumptions:
15k mi/yr (I drive closer to 19k mi/year, but everyone varies a bit)
I charge the Rivian at home at $0.15/Kwh (My last bill was actually $0.125/kWh)
Diesel is $5.15/gal at the pump
AT4 gets 23mpg (closer to 17mpg towing)
Rivian uses 400Wh/mi (closer to 800Wh/mi while towing)
$7,500 tax credit is still available (We can argue the validity of this subsidy forever, but it exists, and we're taking advantage of it)

Total cost, just looking at fuel and purchase price is $2,460 LESS for the Rivian over a life span of 105k miles and 7 years. The savings become more pronounced (or breakeven happens sooner) if we look for a new AT4, OR we get a gas engine, or BOTH. If you want to add maintenance in there, we can add some $/mi figures if you like. It'll be easy to add to the sheet, but I think will only serve to strengthen the EV's position financially.

Here's the math:
View attachment 173458

In general.....IMO, these numbers are with the margin of error in use cases between people. It'll be a win for some and a loss for others. In general though, we're really close (9% subsidy on total purchase price) to having the market drive these prices. I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm guessing that the $7.5k tax credit for EV purchase is less than the total money invested to subsidize E85 (Which was $4.05/gal at the pump this morning). So, again, we can argue the validity of that subsidy until we're blue in the face, but it exists so we should plan on using it.

Further, and this is all opinion on my part, I think the market is speaking loudly when there are waitlists for EV's. Someone is going to capitalize on them, and the market will like continue to explode for several years at this level. Now, I think we can draw a corollary with iPads in education. They were a HUGE fad a few years back, and lauded heavily as the "next big thing" in education for kids. Take a look at most schools now, and they've moved away from iPads, HOWEVER, digital learning still exists heavily and is mostly propped up with lower cost, more financially efficient tools like Chromebooks. I can see a similar arc happening here. We get the top performers out in the market, find the good/bad/ugly about them, then another manufacturer will come along and find the sweet spot of value, and that will become more of the standard.

No matter which way you slice it, it's an interesting time for transportation!!

I'll be honest, I didn't read all that. I'd point out that a full size truck is much bigger inside than a Rivian. You're also comparing a lifted off road truck to one that is designed with efficiency in mind somewhat. If you lift and put big mud tires on the Rivian, efficiency goes down. Also, holy crap you drove a lot of miles, lol.

That said, I was speaking more about the automakers money being thrown in a hole, not consumers. Certainly they're more cost effective for some people. And while there a lot of pre-orders, 500 to 1000 bucks to maybe be able to flip one and/or hope you can pay for it in a few years is very different from actually selling a vehicle. Think of how many people are out there with multiple reservations for multiple vehicles, etc. I don't put a ton of faith in those kinds of reservations.

My thought was more that the automakers are spending a Ton of money, and it does appear likely that a lot of the reservations for these EVs are coming from the same sources. I've heard of independent dealers resvering a ton of them to resell, people reserving tons to sell their spots, etc. I'd hope the automakers would have thought this through, but you know, I also recognize that sometimes big corporations make choices based on making their stock look valuable to a financial industry that's out of touch vs what actual consumers will buy. For reference, look at automaker financial performance when their customer loyalty and satisfaction is at an all time low.

 

[GTBRMC]

Even in our Wrangler (4XE), water still doesn't get to the vehicle, so I don't think this would be an issue. If your vehicle has to get wet at the ramp, I think some other solutions need to be considered.

Right, you make a good point. I routinely would avoid getting the bottom of my ICE Durango or Tahoe (and neither had particularly high ground clearance) wet at the ramp. However, there are times it does get wet.

For one example: Out for the day on Lake Michigan, come back to the ramp to find the wind has shifted and the waves are now coming in (to some extent) through the gap in the breakwater - so I have no choice but to pull her out in 1.5+ footers when I dropped her in that morning in 1” ripples (fun times at South Milwaukee Yacht Club). With an ICE, not that big of a deal, but how would an EV handle it? Clearly it gets splashed all the time in normal driving conditions. What happens when a couple inches of the floor pan (where EV batts typically live) get dunked? Tailpipe in the drink with engine running for a minute or two? Not concerned. EV cell stack (or whatever they are called)? Not nearly as comfortable with that given the power involved.

Note: Trained as a mechanical engineer, so I am far more comfortable with all things mechanical vs any of that electron voodoo, LOL!

 

[adrianp89]

I'll be honest, I didn't read all that. I'd point out that a full size truck is much bigger inside than a Rivian. You're also comparing a lifted off road truck to one that is designed with efficiency in mind somewhat. If you lift and put big mud tires on the Rivian, efficiency goes down. Also, holy crap you drove a lot of miles, lol.

That said, I was speaking more about the automakers money being thrown in a hole, not consumers. Certainly they're more cost effective for some people. And while there a lot of pre-orders, 500 to 1000 bucks to maybe be able to flip one and/or hope you can pay for it in a few years is very different from actually selling a vehicle. Think of how many people are out there with multiple reservations for multiple vehicles, etc. I don't put a ton of faith in those kinds of reservations.

My thought was more that the automakers are spending a Ton of money, and it does appear likely that a lot of the reservations for these EVs are coming from the same sources. I've heard of independent dealers resvering a ton of them to resell, people reserving tons to sell their spots, etc. I'd hope the automakers would have thought this through, but you know, I also recognize that sometimes big corporations make choices based on making their stock look valuable to a financial industry that's out of touch vs what actual consumers will buy. For reference, look at automaker financial performance when their customer loyalty and satisfaction is at an all time low.

When the government is giving them no choice, they have to spend that money on investment though. If not they are simply going to go out of business.

More thoughts on the Wrangler as we now have close 2k on it.... I think the gas/EV mix is the best way to go. We have had a few longer trips and had to consider charging in the Tesla. In the Jeep the thought is there but it is not needed. There are a few things other things that make us like the Jeep more than the Tesla but that is a segment preference not a EV vs ICE debate. I would like to see a longer range on the Jeep, maybe some updates can squeeze out another 10-15 miles. At about 30 now, would really like to be about 50.

If they offered a truck right now that could give me 100 miles pure EV and 400 gas.... (and that EV acceleration) sign me up! I could save money for 90% of my trips and have the extended range on longer trips.

 

[adrianp89]

Right, you make a good point. I routinely would avoid getting the bottom of my ICE Durango or Tahoe (and neither had particularly high ground clearance) wet at the ramp. However, there are times it does get wet.

For one example: Out for the day on Lake Michigan, come back to the ramp to find the wind has shifted and the waves are now coming in (to some extent) through the gap in the breakwater - so I have no choice but to pull her out in 1.5+ footers when I dropped her in that morning in 1” ripples (fun times at South Milwaukee Yacht Club). With an ICE, not that big of a deal, but how would an EV handle it? Clearly it gets splashed all the time in normal driving conditions. What happens when a couple inches of the floor pan (where EV batts typically live) get dunked? Tailpipe in the drink with engine running for a minute or two? Not concerned. EV cell stack (or whatever they are called)? Not nearly as comfortable with that given the power involved.

Note: Trained as a mechanical engineer, so I am far more comfortable with all things mechanical vs any of that electron voodoo, LOL!

I could be wrong, but I believe all battery packs are 100% sealed very tightly. The 4XE can drive in 30" of water so I don't think it's a concern. (though battery pack is higher up than say a Tesla)