2012 212X w/470 hours or 2015 212x w/260 hours

[Slurms]

As the title says, I’m debating 2 used boats right now. At a glance no brainer is the newer and less hours. But curious what this group thinks for a few reasons. Both are ~29k.

Basically for 3 years older and 210 more hours it comes with the below vs just thrust vector.

How much weight should I put in a newer boat with 200 less hours vs the addons?

Any thoughts from this group?

2012 addons below quoted ar 15k upgrades in last 3 seasons

• Perfect Pass upgraded to drive by wire 2024
• Sea Deck throughout
• Garmin new 2023
• New Stereo Head Unit 2022
• New cushions and captains chair 2023
• New bimini and cover also has mooring cover 2023
• kilmat in engine compartment 2022
• Stainless Steel rod cup holders throughout
• Jet Boat Pilot Thrust Vectors and lateral thrusters for low speed steering
• new Stainless Scupper Valve
• Towing Shut off valves 2022

 

[Ronnie]

That’s a tough call to make but if the 2015 has the same timing chain as the 2012, not the newer thicker version, I’d lean towards the 2012. Those add one will cost you a lot whether you install them yourself or pay someone to do it. Full seadek kit is over $1,500. Killmat and the SS scupper are relatively cheap but installing them takes hours. A new Bimini is over $500 and a mooring cover goes for $600 to $900 depending on the model (standard or deluxe). Garmin what? I don’t know what a perfect pass system costs but I’d bet it’s over $1,000.

 

[Cambo]

470 hrs if they did a lot of surfing that boat was run hard. I would go for the low hour boat 260 is not even that low. If you could by a replacement engine from a reputable supplier maybe the high hour boat the problem is getting a new engine if one goes.

 

[Slurms]

470 hrs if they did a lot of surfing that boat was run hard. I would go for the low hour boat 260 is not even that low. If you could by a replacement engine from a reputable supplier maybe the high hour boat the problem is getting a new engine if one goes.

interesting, to me 260 sounded low, about 26 hours a year, but to your point I do see 2015s for sale at times with 100 hours so lower hours are available. Based on the post wanting a dedicated wake boat (for the 470 hour boat) I’d guess it was used for water sports a lot….

 

[Slurms]

That’s a tough call to make but if the 2015 has the same timing chain as the 2012, not the newer thicker version, I’d lean towards the 2012. Those add one will cost you a lot whether you install them yourself or pay someone to do it. Full seadek kit is over $1,500. Killmat and the SS scupper are relatively cheap but installing them takes hours. A new Bimini is over $500 and a mooring cover goes for $600 to $900 depending on the model (standard or deluxe). Garmin what? I don’t know what a perfect pass system costs but I’d bet it’s over $1,000.

Is the timing chain a common problem on these? Didn’t know that was something to look out for. When are they usually being swapped out?

 

[Dave burke]

Where are these boats? Have they ever seen salt water? Do you have the ownership history?

The mods to the 2012 boat are nice but only if they're valuable to you, eg Perfect Pass is a very useful mod but primarily if you're using the boat for tow sports.

 

[Slurms]

Where are these boats? Have they ever seen salt water? Do you have the ownership history?

The mods to the 2012 boat are nice but only if they're valuable to you, eg Perfect Pass is a very useful mod but primarily if you're using the boat for tow sports.

Both boats are in New England, both on the second owner.

the 470 hours has seen some salt water, the 260 the guy says fresh water only.

of course both 1-2 hours away so trying to get more pics and details from owner before wasting my time.

 

[Dave burke]

Tough call. I'd lean towards the lower hours though. And I wouldn't buy either one without a sea trial

 

[Ronnie]

Is the timing chain a common problem on these? Didn’t know that was something to look out for. When are they usually being swapped out?

The timing chain was upgraded by Yamaha around 2016. For the most part the original timing chains didn’t fail often but there were a few problem years / years that more breaks were reported than others. I had one fail in my 2010 at 500 hours, others had theirs break as well. Do a search here on bad / broken timing chains if you want to know more.

the other guys made some good points. Hours aside I’d lean towards a fresh water boat over a salt water boat. I’d also want the boat which spent the least amount of time under the loads that wake sports sometimes puts on them especially when ballast is used to make the boat heavier and create bigger wake waves. I wouldn’t buy a car $2k car without test driving it first so a sea trial for a $30k boat would also be required.

if you really want to know how the boat was ran you can have the engines read by a dealer or a pwc repair shop. I’ve seen reports here that show how long the engines were run at specific rpm and when errors like low oil pressure occurred. Prices for a read vary by shop but it only takes a few minutes. You could also compression check each engine if the seller will allow you to do so but a see trail should tell you if they are running well and if there are any cavitation (similar to wheel spin in cars) issues.

In both cases I think a personal inspection is in order. I would try to set up a day to see and drive both boats if possible one on the morning and another in the evening. To show the sellers I’m serious and not just wanting free boat ride, I’d offer to give them $100 or so for fuel and their time.

good luck.

 

[I_squared_r]

For $29,000 I would find a 2016+ AR240 and spend a little more. I promise you'll make a better negotiation with the updated engines. And the extra 3ft will make a huge difference, they ride great. If it's outside your budget, go find a 2008 AR230. I've heard amazing things about them. Met a guy who had his since new and never major problems.

 

[anmut]

For $29,000 I would find a 2016+ AR240 and spend a little more. I promise you'll make a better negotiation with the updated engines. And the extra 3ft will make a huge difference, they ride great. If it's outside your budget, go find a 2008 AR230. I've heard amazing things about them. Met a guy who had his since new and never major problems.

I second this.

If you're dead set on going with the one of the two boats, I would do the 2012 for the following reasons:

- No timing chain issue
- Higher hours can be a good thing because it indicates less sitting and more maintenance.
- With the upgrades to the 2012 the owner definitely had "pride of ownership" and that probably reflects upon his maintenance of the motors and pumps too.

Stock boats with low hours are, IMHO, timebombs, because the owners probably didn't take the time to read the manual, follow the outline procedures, follow the maintenance schedule, and just let the boat sit and rot. I'd rather buy a boat from a guy that loved it, used it, and took care of it than from a guy that new nothing about it and used it just a couple of times a year.

One way you can prove this out is to ask the current owners some questions you know the answer to, like:

Q: So how many hours did it take to break-in the motors for the first oil change?
A: 10-20 is standard

Q: Do these engines need to change spark plugs?
A: Consensus is to change every 1-2 seasons.

Q: Do I have to winterize the motors with antifreeze and pull the block plugs?
A: Absolutely not.

Q: Explain to me the plugs in the rear hatch - do they come out, what are they for, is there anything I have to do with them?
A: A good owner will tell you all about them, how to maintain them, etc.. A bad owner will say something like "I just leave them in all the time not really sure." If you get that second answer, run far and fast from that boat.

And if the owners say "well actually, the dealer does all my maintenance, and I don't do oil, plugs or winterizing," perfect - dealer should have all those records and I'm sure the owner would be happy to procure them for you.

 

[Cambo]

For $29,000 I would find a 2016+ AR240 and spend a little more. I promise you'll make a better negotiation with the updated engines. And the extra 3ft will make a huge difference, they ride great. If it's outside your budget, go find a 2008 AR230. I've heard amazing things about them. Met a guy who had his since new and never major problems.

3rd vote for this. For the boat that was run in salt water the trailer is probably in bad shape breaks and leaf springs are probably rusted badly. The interiors and vinyl are a good determination of how the boat was maintained burned out vinyl is from leaving the boat uncovered. Don’t be afraid to drive a long distance for a good boat.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

In addition to what the other guys have said…


I think with boats this old, 12 and 9 years, with 39 hours and 29 years AVERAGE per year, it could be hard to tell how much the boat was used in a given time frame. Lots of folks buy a power sports toy or a RV and use it a lot at first then it sits a lot. And, these boats are both on their second owners, so who really knows how well they were cared for and who put the most hours on them and when. I’ve seen reports here of ski rental companies having 4400 hours on these engines, so I consider both of these boats to have lower engine hours.

The timing chain issue. One of the dirt bikes I owned and raced a lot had a known timing chain issue, but, I could keep tabs on it by checking the timing chain tensioner so I knew when it needed to be replaced. @Ronnie is SME on that in this conversation since he had one break and that would be a very expensive repair along with the nightmare of the SBT rebuilt engines. I have no idea other than what I’ve read here about the timing chains, it was not all that wide spread or not enough to force a recall but it happened enough to warrant more investigation.

Water sports load; I don’t know that I agree that wake boarding with ballast creates more load, the engine and jet pump are going to be producing the same amount of thrust at a given speed or rpm. Engine cooling is dependent on an unlimited supply of cooling water from the jet pump. I would venture a boat used for wake boarding uses less rpm’s and less power output compared to towing tubes and such since it’s going slower and would have less wear on the engine. Towing tubes and knee boards is usually done at higher speeds with more throttle and higher rpm’s and output. Again with the hours, hard to say what percentage of time the engines were under increased load or at idle, the NMMA (national marine manufacturers association) states that on average a marine engine spends 40% of its life at idle speed. And whether or not the engine and jet pump have been maintained properly. I’ve got 440 hours on my four year old boat, I’d estimate that 80% or more of those hours are at idle.

In addition to engine oil changes, both of those engines should have had their valve lash checked, twice for the 2012 and once for the 2015. Has that been done? Has the grease under the cone on the jet pump been checked and or repacked? This is supposed to be done each year or 100 hours according to my shop manual. These boats don’t require much maintenance on the drive mechanism compared to outboards or I/O’s but those items need to be checked.

Pride of ownership as @anmut mentions is a great point, in addition to the outside things like cushions and bimini tops, how does the engine bay look? I’ve seen boats that are show quality on the outside, but look like the inside of a trash truck in the engine bay. Speaking of the bilge, be sure and have a long hard look in the aft bilge a sometimes neglected area, is it full of rust? Is it clean ? Etc..

A compression test is a must on both boats, as is a sea trial with a 10 min run at WOT to make sure there are no overheat issues. As well as having the ECU’s read by a shop for any fault codes.

 

[Cambo]

Water sports load; I don’t know that I agree that wake boarding with ballast creates more load, the engine and jet pump are going to be producing the same amount of thrust at a given speed or rpm

470 hrs if they did a lot of surfing that boat was run hard

Surfing is hard on these boats wakeboarding is not. Surfing requires max RPM and can create cavitation that doesn't cool the motor efficiently

 

[Ronnie]

Surfing is hard on these boats wakeboarding is not. Surfing requires max RPM and can create cavitation that doesn't cool the motor efficiently

I’m thinking more of the extra weight from the ballast bags far exceeding the max carrying capacity once the weight of the passengers and other gear is factored in. The boat may only be moving at 15 mph and at the same rpms but the engines have to move a lot more weight than if there were no ballast bags or only empty ones.

 

[anmut]

Surfing is hard on these boats wakeboarding is not. Surfing requires max RPM and can create cavitation that doesn't cool the motor efficiently

I've never heard cavitation in the many hours of surfing on my boat. In fact, I go full throttle to form the wave and then back off the throttle (or Ride Steady does) to maintain...