Bimini 2018

[2nazt]

@tim h i know I made a recommendation also that if people could they should leave a day early if the Sands could accept it. I know I would have if the arrangements would of worked out.

 

[ThatJeepGuy]

One thing that is not stressed enough is BEING FLEXIBLE ON OUR DEPARTURE !
Last year I ignored my gut feeling about crossing on Sunday instead of the original plan for Monday...
There was better weather/waves on Sunday vs Monday.
I don't believe I will do that again...

We had the same conversation last year. Since it was just Tina and I we decided to tough it out. I still agree with our decision but if there were others on our boat I would have left a day early

 

[tim h]

@tim h i know I made a recommendation also that if people could they should leave a day early if the Sands could accept it. I know I would have if the arrangements would of worked out.

I can stay on my boat. So if the room wasn’t available I’d be alright.
They do have showers and laundry facilities for those that need it.

 

[blacksapphirez]

are we going to do a poll for the crossing date?

 

[Sbrown]

It seems like most people are going to have two radios on board, one fixed and one handheld. The handhelds could be used for chatting on whatever channel the chatters choose, and the fixed could stay on the main group channel.
I also believe buddying up with someone is not a bad idea.

 

[MrMoose]

Sorry for not chiming in sooner. I've been busy unpacking boxes and moving into our new house.
It's good to see this type of discussion...
Rather than give separate replies to those who've tagged me in this thread, I'll just do one post.
@Mainah, I used the setup that you referenced ( https://jetboaters.net/threads/supe...older-and-vhf-antenna-holder-all-in-one.9172/ ) in the 2016 crossing, and I don't recommend it. I hoped that the fixed antenna would give me more range with my handheld. It may have helped with receiving, but in the end it seemed like I was still limited by the 6 watt power output of the handheld for sending. @Betik, you are correct where in another post, you mentioned that during my approach to Bimini in 2016, I could hear Bruce hailing me from Bimini Sands, but he could not hear my response. @Mainah, you are also correct in that the radio hanging from the bimini was not ideal. It collided with my forehead quite a few times before the factory clip slipped out of its slot. The radio eventually let loose from the bimini, and ended up hanging from the antenna cable during the crossing.
I upgraded to using two radios in 2017.
1. For group-channel monitoring/comm: I clipped a 6 watt handheld to my life vest. I used a single-ear boom-style headset. Here is the handheld that I used: http://www.standardhorizon.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&DivisionID=3&ProdCatID=85&ProdID=1791
Key features of the handheld are the power (6W), waterproof, floating, clips to vest, and accommodates a headset (you can't get a headset for most handhelds).
Here is the headset that I used: https://www.westmarine.com/buy/standard-horizon--ssm-64a-headset-with-vox-and-ptt--17674227
2. Channel 16 monitoring: I used a fixed vhf to monitor channel 16 during the 2017 crossing.
Here's the radio that I have: http://www.standardhorizon.com/inde...5A9C52CA71AA33BA6F5&DivisionID=3&isArchived=0
The radio is installed to the right of my drivers seat, out of the way but within easy reach and view with the gps and speaker both facing up. I used a 4 foot antenna mounted on my wake tower. Here's the antenna I have: http://shakespeare-ce.com/marine/product/5401-xt-little-giant/

In 2017, I had my group comm in my left ear via the headset while I monitored channel 16 with my right ear via the fixed vhf speaker.
What didn't work well:
1. Ambient noise. With respect to the group-level communication, the ambient noise at both ends of the communication made it nearly impossible to understand what was being said. When I heard something come through my handheld's headset (which works infinitely better than with no headset if you need to drive the boat at the same time), I dropped off plane and reduced RPMs to minimize the noise level at my end, and I usually asked the sender to repeat what they said. Even doing this, I could still barely comprehend what was being said due to the amount of noise being transmitted by the sender (or maybe due to the quality/specs of their handheld). So, my big lesson learned here is that you should buy the best quality/spec handheld, and I think it's necessary for anybody involved in group-level communication to first minimize the ambient noise before speaking. Maybe even start their transmission out with some kind of request for everybody in the group to drop off plane and cut their RPMs before they transmit their message. Also, for boats that are using two vhf radios, it's important to recognize that you will generate feedback squeal if they're on the same channel and physically too close to each other. This was happening with one of the boats in my group in 2017.

2. Insufficient group-level comms: In 2017, I turned back 3 times within the first 6 miles when I was about to lose sight of the 2 skis and one of the boats in my group. I understand that it's really not practical for the skis to be using their vhf radio while getting pounded, but if the captain of a boat is having a problem, they need to get in touch with their group before they drop out of sight. Rough seas and stormy weather really limit visual contact, and trying to communicate your coordinates to your group so that they can come and help you is next to impossible in rough seas. Communicating your location to your group, and having them punch the coordinates into their nav system is dangerous and likely impossible with our boats in rough seas. You need to be in contact with your group before they lose sight of you.

In conclusion, with respect to radios, I think that every boat should have a fixed and a handheld vhf. Although I thought I had things well covered with my setup, I lost a boat from my group who ran out of gas, and in fact, in the spirit of @chris24, I lost most of my group during the 2017 crossing... not one peep from anybody found its way to my radios to alert me that anybody was leaving the group. In fact, for most of the crossing, channel 16 was being used by the Coast Guard who was enroute to assist a sinking vessel (don't think that it was one of our prop boats because it sounded like they were near Miami).

With respect to fuel. I've crossed 3 times and I've never required extra fuel. I do not have trim tabs (which is important to note because I think that in most conditions a boat with tabs will get better fuel economy). Because I did not know my boat well, I brought extra fuel in 2015 and in 2016. The one thing that I know for sure is that there are many things that can impact fuel economy in our boats, the biggest being the wind/waves and our ability to stay on plane, and the wildcard is having an unknown issue pop up with your jet drive(s) that impacts efficiency. If I had extra fuel on board in 2017, I would likey have set a more comfortable pace, and I would likely not have lost most of my group. All of my crossings to Bimini have been rough, but my fuel consumption was different each time. From rough memory... In 2015 (brand new boat with 10 hrs), after running off plane more than on plane, I had zero fuel left upon arrival; this included turning back to give one of my extra fuel tanks to a boat that ran out about 5 miles away from Bimini. In 2016, my group was the last group and we were held-up due to problems with one of the boats, which resulted in us having a much rougher crossing than the groups ahead of us. I think that I had 15-17 gallons left in 2016. In 2017, I had about 5-6 gallons left. For reference, I think that my boat has a 50 gal tank and that the range is supposed to be around 120 miles on a smooth lake.

In conclusion, with respect to fuel, if I were to do the crossing again, I would bring extra fuel.

With respect to group size and setup, I think that small groups become a mess when the overall crossing consists of a large number of boats, which results in the groups getting all mixed up anyway, but I don't have a solution with respect to group size. The most basic thing though is that boats should run closer together, and if anybody sees another boat slow down/stop, take note and be ready to assist. This worked well in 2015. Also, in 2017, although she wasn't in my group, later in the crossing when all of the groups were mixed up, I saw @Valerie stop on her ski, so I took a few seconds to circle back and check on her. Similarly, @Betik swung by to check on me when I stopped so that Moose Jr and MiniMoose could take a piss. The one thing that I feel strongly about is that there should be a minimum equipment requirement for the crossing (fixed vhf, handheld vhf, and navigation) which will enable groups to be made up based on a boat's estimated crossing speed, as opposed to making sure that each group has at least one boat with a fixed vhf and navigation. For example, put the smaller boats and skis together because they'll cross at a slower speed in the usually expected rough conditions. Having slower boats mixed in with faster boats spreads-out the group, and puts fuel consumption in play for the faster boats if they can't stay on plane.

It's such a difficult topic to discuss. With no saltwater experience, I wouldn't have made this trip if I were not for the Jetboaters group. I did that first crossing with navigation, and just a handheld radio. I think that I was lucky to have made it without any issues. I know that everybody has their own risk tolerance, and although I did what I thought was best to prepare for each of my crossings, I've never felt completely comfortable because I always knew that there was a chance that I'd have to abandon my boat. Each of the three times that I've done the crossing have produced lessons learned for myself and for the group. There are just so many things that can happen. Nobody wants to be the guy that has to turn back, and despite everybody's best attempt to prepare for the crossing, you could always be the boat that runs into the unexpected. "It's only 55 miles." is a dangerous way to think of the crossing.

 

[justason]

Another detail I have not seen mentioned here: For those going for the first time...check your insurance policy!! Most make a statement of distance off shore that is covered, Bimini falls into that range often. But Bimini is also foreign waters and coverage may be denied. This was the case with my former Erie Policy out of NC. State of origin matters in this statement as well.

I changed to State farm that has a specific noted rider on the policy..

 

[newbote]

Another detail I have not seen mentioned here: For those going for the first time...check your insurance policy!! Most make a statement of distance off shore that is covered, Bimini falls into that range often. But Bimini is also foreign waters and coverage may be denied. This was the case with my former Erie Policy out of NC. State of origination matters in this statement as well.

I changed to State farm that has a specific noted rider on the policy..

For those of you that have Allstate - it looks to me that their policy has within the US or Canada or within 100 Nautical Miles of the coast - which covers Bimini. I don't see an international waters limitation but curious if others have Allstate that can confirm this.

 

[robert843]

For those of you that have Allstate - it looks to me that their policy has within the US or Canada or within 100 Nautical Miles of the coast - which covers Bimini. I don't see an international waters limitation but curious if others have Allstate that can confirm this.

Allstate does not cover the Bahamas on the basic policy if I remember correctly I have them as well. They cover 100 miles of shore in Canadian and US waters only once you enter the Bahamas its no longer covered in those waters. I think there is an additional fee you can pay to be covered in the Bahamas but I would have to go back and look in my policy.

 

[swatski]

Sorry for not chiming in sooner. I've been busy unpacking boxes and moving into our new house.
It's good to see this type of discussion...
Rather than give separate replies to those who've tagged me in this thread, I'll just do one post.
@Mainah, I used the setup that you referenced ( https://jetboaters.net/threads/supe...older-and-vhf-antenna-holder-all-in-one.9172/ ) in the 2016 crossing, and I don't recommend it. I hoped that the fixed antenna would give me more range with my handheld. It may have helped with receiving, but in the end it seemed like I was still limited by the 6 watt power output of the handheld for sending. @Betik, you are correct where in another post, you mentioned that during my approach to Bimini in 2016, I could hear Bruce hailing me from Bimini Sands, but he could not hear my response. @Mainah, you are also correct in that the radio hanging from the bimini was not ideal. It collided with my forehead quite a few times before the factory clip slipped out of its slot. The radio eventually let loose from the bimini, and ended up hanging from the antenna cable during the crossing.
I upgraded to using two radios in 2017.
1. For group-channel monitoring/comm: I clipped a 6 watt handheld to my life vest. I used a single-ear boom-style headset. Here is the handheld that I used: http://www.standardhorizon.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&DivisionID=3&ProdCatID=85&ProdID=1791
Key features of the handheld are the power (6W), waterproof, floating, clips to vest, and accommodates a headset (you can't get a headset for most handhelds).
Here is the headset that I used: https://www.westmarine.com/buy/standard-horizon--ssm-64a-headset-with-vox-and-ptt--17674227
2. Channel 16 monitoring: I used a fixed vhf to monitor channel 16 during the 2017 crossing.
Here's the radio that I have: http://www.standardhorizon.com/inde...5A9C52CA71AA33BA6F5&DivisionID=3&isArchived=0
The radio is installed to the right of my drivers seat, out of the way but within easy reach and view with the gps and speaker both facing up. I used a 4 foot antenna mounted on my wake tower. Here's the antenna I have: http://shakespeare-ce.com/marine/product/5401-xt-little-giant/

In 2017, I had my group comm in my left ear via the headset while I monitored channel 16 with my right ear via the fixed vhf speaker.
What didn't work well:
1. Ambient noise. With respect to the group-level communication, the ambient noise at both ends of the communication made it nearly impossible to understand what was being said. When I heard something come through my handheld's headset (which works infinitely better than with no headset if you need to drive the boat at the same time), I dropped off plane and reduced RPMs to minimize the noise level at my end, and I usually asked the sender to repeat what they said. Even doing this, I could still barely comprehend what was being said due to the amount of noise being transmitted by the sender (or maybe due to the quality/specs of their handheld). So, my big lesson learned here is that you should buy the best quality/spec handheld, and I think it's necessary for anybody involved in group-level communication to first minimize the ambient noise before speaking. Maybe even start their transmission out with some kind of request for everybody in the group to drop off plane and cut their RPMs before they transmit their message. Also, for boats that are using two vhf radios, it's important to recognize that you will generate feedback squeal if they're on the same channel and physically too close to each other. This was happening with one of the boats in my group in 2017.

2. Insufficient group-level comms: In 2017, I turned back 3 times within the first 6 miles when I was about to lose sight of the 2 skis and one of the boats in my group. I understand that it's really not practical for the skis to be using their vhf radio while getting pounded, but if the captain of a boat is having a problem, they need to get in touch with their group before they drop out of sight. Rough seas and stormy weather really limit visual contact, and trying to communicate your coordinates to your group so that they can come and help you is next to impossible in rough seas. Communicating your location to your group, and having them punch the coordinates into their nav system is dangerous and likely impossible with our boats in rough seas. You need to be in contact with your group before they lose sight of you.

In conclusion, with respect to radios, I think that every boat should have a fixed and a handheld vhf. Although I thought I had things well covered with my setup, I lost a boat from my group who ran out of gas, and in fact, in the spirit of @chris24, I lost most of my group during the 2017 crossing... not one peep from anybody found its way to my radios to alert me that anybody was leaving the group. In fact, for most of the crossing, channel 16 was being used by the Coast Guard who was enroute to assist a sinking vessel (don't think that it was one of our prop boats because it sounded like they were near Miami).

With respect to fuel. I've crossed 3 times and I've never required extra fuel. I do not have trim tabs (which is important to note because I think that in most conditions a boat with tabs will get better fuel economy). Because I did not know my boat well, I brought extra fuel in 2015 and in 2016. The one thing that I know for sure is that there are many things that can impact fuel economy in our boats, the biggest being the wind/waves and our ability to stay on plane, and the wildcard is having an unknown issue pop up with your jet drive(s) that impacts efficiency. If I had extra fuel on board in 2017, I would likey have set a more comfortable pace, and I would likely not have lost most of my group. All of my crossings to Bimini have been rough, but my fuel consumption was different each time. From rough memory... In 2015 (brand new boat with 10 hrs), after running off plane more than on plane, I had zero fuel left upon arrival; this included turning back to give one of my extra fuel tanks to a boat that ran out about 5 miles away from Bimini. In 2016, my group was the last group and we were held-up due to problems with one of the boats, which resulted in us having a much rougher crossing than the groups ahead of us. I think that I had 15-17 gallons left in 2016. In 2017, I had about 5-6 gallons left. For reference, I think that my boat has a 50 gal tank and that the range is supposed to be around 120 miles on a smooth lake.

In conclusion, with respect to fuel, if I were to do the crossing again, I would bring extra fuel.

With respect to group size and setup, I think that small groups become a mess when the overall crossing consists of a large number of boats, which results in the groups getting all mixed up anyway, but I don't have a solution with respect to group size. The most basic thing though is that boats should run closer together, and if anybody sees another boat slow down/stop, take note and be ready to assist. This worked well in 2015. Also, in 2017, although she wasn't in my group, later in the crossing when all of the groups were mixed up, I saw @Valerie stop on her ski, so I took a few seconds to circle back and check on her. Similarly, @Betik swung by to check on me when I stopped so that Moose Jr and MiniMoose could take a piss. The one thing that I feel strongly about is that there should be a minimum equipment requirement for the crossing (fixed vhf, handheld vhf, and navigation) which will enable groups to be made up based on a boat's estimated crossing speed, as opposed to making sure that each group has at least one boat with a fixed vhf and navigation. For example, put the smaller boats and skis together because they'll cross at a slower speed in the usually expected rough conditions. Having slower boats mixed in with faster boats spreads-out the group, and puts fuel consumption in play for the faster boats if they can't stay on plane.

It's such a difficult topic to discuss. With no saltwater experience, I wouldn't have made this trip if I were not for the Jetboaters group. I did that first crossing with navigation, and just a handheld radio. I think that I was lucky to have made it without any issues. I know that everybody has their own risk tolerance, and although I did what I thought was best to prepare for each of my crossings, I've never felt completely comfortable because I always knew that there was a chance that I'd have to abandon my boat. Each of the three times that I've done the crossing have produced lessons learned for myself and for the group. There are just so many things that can happen. Nobody wants to be the guy that has to turn back, and despite everybody's best attempt to prepare for the crossing, you could always be the boat that runs into the unexpected. "It's only 55 miles." is a dangerous way to think of the crossing.

Very good information, @MrMoose !
I gave it a "funny" rating but frankly I was thorn between "funny", "informative", "useful", "agree", and "love it"

Glad you chimed in, may help dispel some of not-so-great ideas floating around, LOL. I will most likely miss the run this year . It is a great trip but I would be a bit worried about the size of the group - this i getting really big...

--

 

[Betik]

In terms of insurance you MUST check with your agent/policy. It HAS to say explicitly that Bahamas are covered.
We had a very long discussion about this last year prior to the Bimini trip and the conclusion was that even if it covers up to 75 miles, it does not necessary mean that it will cover you while in Bahamian waters. Please do you not assume that Bimini is within 100 miles and you are okay; insurances have a way of getting out of responsibility.

 

[Berrie]

It's such a difficult topic to discuss. With no saltwater experience, I wouldn't have made this trip if I were not for the Jetboaters group. I did that first crossing with navigation, and just a handheld radio. I think that I was lucky to have made it without any issues. I know that everybody has their own risk tolerance, and although I did what I thought was best to prepare for each of my crossings, I've never felt completely comfortable because I always knew that there was a chance that I'd have to abandon my boat. Each of the three times that I've done the crossing have produced lessons learned for myself and for the group. There are just so many things that can happen. Nobody wants to be the guy that has to turn back, and despite everybody's best attempt to prepare for the crossing, you could always be the boat that runs into the unexpected. "It's only 55 miles." is a dangerous way to think of the crossing.

I believe all need to be aware that jetboats were designed for a fun day at the lake, maybe some light coastal stuff, but NOT to cross the Gulf Stream. Can it be done? Absolutely, as has been proven for the last several years - IF the weather is good.

If the weather is not so good we all need to be aware of the risks which are very real. Do not enter anything so rough you do not feel comfortabke with. In those conditions one cannot expect another captain to put himself and his crew and boat at risk to save yours. There is strength in numbers but at some point of roughness there is nothing another boat can do as they are all trying to hang on for dear life.

Planning a trip on a predetermined date with a long tow to FL puts pressure on you to go even in rough conditions and that can cloud your judgement. Luckily we have experienced leaders who i trust will not attempt a crossing when it is too dangerous. If they say don’t go, then don’t go.

 

[swatski]

my group was the last group and we were held-up due to problems with one of the boats, which resulted in us having a much rougher crossing than the groups ahead of us

LOL - why is it always the last group out that gets f@#$ed???

Next time I'd do this particular crossing I'd probably be freelancing it, like @Julian.

--

 

[robert843]

"It's only 55 miles." is a dangerous way to think of the crossing.

I think this is my problem and you are correct it is a dangerous way to look at it and now that you have said it it made me think am I looking at it that way and I probably am. Maybe that's why my train of thought is skewed versus others. This trip for the last two years has basically just been the first leg of our journey so maybe others should take my advice with a grain of salt as you are correct it is a dangerous way to look at it but its hard for me to get passe that thought right now lol.

 

[Valerie]

I started in the first group in the 2017 crossing, I believe I fell behind to the last group
I had a handlebar bag with all of my electronics that started to break loose. I needed to secure that and I was taking a beating but I was never worried or scared
@MrMoose circled back for me and I felt horrible for making someone have to check on me (I can not stress the importance of having everything inside your ski enough here)
I was carrying 10 gallons of fuel and my ski started beeping waaaaayyyyy before I was expecting it to. I did not want to refuel on the water because of the conditions but I decided I would not radio for help until I ran out. Those boats were taking a serious beating and I didn’t want anyone to fall off track helping me. (I was actually a little nervous at this point) I have an icom ic-m73 handheld which got good reviews online but I A: could not hold on to it and ride at the same time B: really hear anything until approaching Bimini when I finally heard someone declare we were there. C:did not use it to call anyone on the water
But it did work great on the island
I decided to slow down a little and conserve fuel and hope for the best, and I know that’s no safe way to be.
I made it by the skin of my teeth without having to refuel.
I will be there for the trip this year!!! Yay!
Any advice on a better radio would be greatly appreciated
I also know that these conditions were not the best conditions to cross in, this was my third crossing
I believe only one of 10 crossings I heard of (by ski) had a smooth ride in 1017.
I chose to go, and I probably would do it again, but I’m hopeful this year mother nature plays nice!

 

[Valerie]

Another detail I have not seen mentioned here: For those going for the first time...check your insurance policy!! Most make a statement of distance off shore that is covered, Bimini falls into that range often. But Bimini is also foreign waters and coverage may be denied. This was the case with my former Erie Policy out of NC. State of origin matters in this statement as well.

I changed to State farm that has a specific noted rider on the policy..

I believe that someone had to be towed out by another member in order for them to be towed back to the states
It’s a very grey area with insurance

 

[Valerie]

Ha
I left off on page 15 I have lots of catching up to do here!

 

[Betik]

IB: really hear anything until approaching Bimini when I finally heard someone declare we were there. !

Did is sound like a "Land Ahoy , Land Ahoy" with Greek accent LOL. Sarah told me that I was screaming like a little kid on Christmas day


It was @Edgar Almonte who got towed back to Florida and transported a portion of @swatski boat too. LOL

 

[Valerie]

Sadly, that did not work for me
Complete waste of money imo

Not sure if this will work for the Bimini crossing but it transfers very quickly! It might be an option.
I’ve used it for a couple years but not in rough water.

a

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I started in the first group in the 2017 crossing, I believe I fell behind to the last group
I had a handlebar bag with all of my electronics that started to break loose. I needed to secure that and I was taking a beating but I was never worried or scared
@MrMoose circled back for me and I felt horrible for making someone have to check on me (I can not stress the importance of having everything inside your ski enough here)
I was carrying 10 gallons of fuel and my ski started beeping waaaaayyyyy before I was expecting it to. I did not want to refuel on the water because of the conditions but I decided I would not radio for help until I ran out. Those boats were taking a serious beating and I didn’t want anyone to fall off track helping me. (I was actually a little nervous at this point) I have an icom ic-m73 handheld which got good reviews online but I A: could not hold on to it and ride at the same time B: really hear anything until approaching Bimini when I finally heard someone declare we were there. C:did not use it to call anyone on the water
But it did work great on the island
I decided to slow down a little and conserve fuel and hope for the best, and I know that’s no safe way to be.
I made it by the skin of my teeth without having to refuel.
I will be there for the trip this year!!! Yay!
Any advice on a better radio would be greatly appreciated
I also know that these conditions were not the best conditions to cross in, this was my third crossing
I believe only one of 10 crossings I heard of (by ski) had a smooth ride in 1017.
I chose to go, and I probably would do it again, but I’m hopeful this year mother nature plays nice!

I personally wouldn't try and find a different radio then what you have Valerie. Like you said, they're worthless while riding as you need all 10 fingers griped to handlebars anyways. I think it's more important to have that buddy boat that's going to ride close by at speed your comfortable with. Whether it be a boat or another ski or two. My thought has always been if I had major issues 30 miles off shore, I would try and sink or abandon my ski and hop on the back of another ski or in a boat. For me that buddy boat is as important as my radio and Delorme.