Electric Vehicle Battery Issues/Fires

[HangOutdoors]

Didn't know this could happen.

Electric vehicles are exploding from water damage after Hurricane Ian, top Florida official warns | Fox News

 

[Ronnie]

I used to work for the company named after a fruit . I saw them put some prototype batteries through a stress test (I sourced the test camber). One of the test was immersion in water. The water completed the circuit between the anode and electrode (I think these are the correct terms) resulting in spontaneous combustion. This was when hover boards first came out and some were causing homes to burn down, the engineers I spoke to assumed the problem was poor insulation between the battery’s components. Since that time I never take batteries especially those being charged for granted. I also remember them telling me it’s not the watts that kill you, it’s the amps. The discharge rate is also a BFD.

 

[Neutron]

If the battery is kept inside the car or trunk that is a dry space and water or heavy moisture gets in there it would most definitely cause problems. So if the car was in 3 to 4 feet of water or more, its gonna need lots of wiring harnesses and the batteries.
When we get toyotas that have been flooded and the engine has been hydrolocked its usually totalled even a 1 year old car

 

[Bruce]

It would be interesting to know how many EV fires have actually occurred since Ian passed through Florida. I searched and could only find similar content published from extremely low quality sources.

The concept of EVs catching fire from water damage is quite flawed. Their battery packs are well sealed and often liquid cooled. They are well managed so cell failure is unlikely to lead to fire. The greatest risk of fire is from puncturing cells due to collision.

EVs use Lithium Ion (Li-Ion) batteries. Many phones, laptops, hoverboards and RC devices use LIthium Polymer (Li-Po) batteries. Li-Po will spontaneously combust if overly discharged. Li-Ion batteries are much safer and are often thrown into a bucket of water to fully discharge before disposal. The water will provide a path for electrons between the cathode (positive) and anode (negative).

This is a Tesla battery pack other EVs use similar well sealed battery packs.



This is a Li-Po explosion. In this instance the battery was overcharged to cause it to burn. I understand the fire begins more quickly if it is overly discharged or punctured.

No need to believe me about this, the NTSB data is quite clear.

Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings] | AutoinsuranceEZ.com

Auto fires result in hundreds of fatalities every year and millions of car recalls. Click here to see hybrid, gas, and electric car fire statistics.

www.autoinsuranceez.com

 

[Judge]

I live in Florida and I have seen some stories about submerged EV's catching on fire.

Coincidentally, a few days ago I got a email from the company that made the e-bilke we own (Pedego) after Ian hit. The email stated that if the battery was partially or fully submerged in water not to try to charge it because it could catch fire. They said the battery needs to be taken to a recycle center.

 

[Stan M]

It would be interesting to know how many EV fires have actually occurred since Ian passed through Florida. I searched and could only find similar content published from extremely low quality sources.

The concept of EVs catching fire from water damage is quite flawed. Their battery packs are well sealed and often liquid cooled. They are well managed so cell failure is unlikely to lead to fire. The greatest risk of fire is from puncturing cells due to collision.

EVs use Lithium Ion (Li-Ion) batteries. Many phones, laptops, hoverboards and RC devices use LIthium Polymer (Li-Po) batteries. Li-Po will spontaneously combust if overly discharged. Li-Ion batteries are much safer and are often thrown into a bucket of water to fully discharge before disposal. The water will provide a path for electrons between the cathode (positive) and anode (negative).

This is a Tesla battery pack other EVs use similar well sealed battery packs.

View attachment 189333

This is a Li-Po explosion. In this instance the battery was overcharged to cause it to burn. I understand the fire begins more quickly if it is overly discharged or punctured.

No need to believe me about this, the NTSB data is quite clear.

View attachment 189334

Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings] | AutoinsuranceEZ.com

Auto fires result in hundreds of fatalities every year and millions of car recalls. Click here to see hybrid, gas, and electric car fire statistics.

www.autoinsuranceez.com

I'm sure the local fire officials are lying, which is why the "higher quality" sources are not covering the story...or perhaps, exploding electric vehicles don't fit their narrative. Smh

 

[BlkGS]

They can't even get a handle on how many people are dead right now. How many Teslas are catching on fire is such a low priority right now for anyone there.

It is happening, and while you can't expect vehicles to be designed to withstand 16 foot storm surges, to imply that it isn't happening is dangerous and irresponsible. The whole point of the county's statements was to warn people of the danger of them.

 

[Bruce]

I got a email from the company that made the e-bilke we own (Pedego) after Ian hit. The email stated that if the battery was partially or fully submerged in water not to try to charge it

That actually makes a lot of sense. E-bike batteries typically are spot welded with metal strips between terminals then shrink wrapped or enclosed in a plastic housing.

Also a great way to sell overpriced battery packs.

 

[AZMark]

I'm sure the local fire officials are lying, which is why the "higher quality" sources are not covering the story...or perhaps, exploding electric vehicles don't fit their narrative. Smh

To imply that Fox News doesn’t absolutely have a narrative against electric cars is unfair as well.
The whole second half of the article reiterates that and their headline is far more alarming than the FL official’s actual tweet/statement.

 

[BlkGS]

To imply that Fox News doesn’t absolutely have a narrative against electric cars is unfair as well.
The whole second half of the article reiterates that and their headline is far more alarming than the FL official’s actual tweet/statement.

Unfortunately all our media is incredibly biased, as are all our people.

We are pretty well f'ed for the future.

 

[AZMark]

Unfortunately all our media is incredibly biased, as are all our people.

We are pretty well f'ed for the future.

That’s a shit article man. I generally agree with you, but come on, “journalist”.

 

[BlkGS]

That’s a shit article man. I generally agree with you, but come on, “journalist”.

I didn't read it, I just saw the tweet from the county.

Journalists have reached the lowest rung of the totem pole for humanity. The area that used to be reserved for lawyers and people who don't bring their shopping carts back.

 

[Bruce]

Unfortunately all our media is incredibly biased, as are all our people.

We are pretty well f'ed for the future.

There are many centered media sources if we choose them over the more entertaining sources.

There is a good chart at https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart

 

[BlkGS]

There are many centered media sources if we choose them over the more entertaining sources.

There is a good chart at https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart

The issue is that defining what is "centered" is in fact, based on your bias.

For example, I'd argue that WSJ leans left, that fox News leans minority right, amd that most of the things listed as left leaning are more extreme left. But I also haven't heard of most of the extreme left sources, so they might be insanely left to the point it'd blow my little mind.

I consider myself centrist. I think both parties or sides are usually wrong, and the correct action plan is usually in the middle. I think both sides are looking out more for their own financial interests than the country, with the left being more abusive of this and the right being more honest about it. But a lot of people on here would either say I lean heavily left or heavily right, based on where they sit.

The really unfortunate part is the two sides have diverged so far from the middle they can't find a common ground. Only the extremists are getting closer together, as they both sweep around the political circle to fascist.

 

[Bruce]

@BlkGS I agree with much of what you have written but try to avoid political discussion in compliance with our forum rules.

AllSides uses ratings from contributors on all sides to determine the bias of media organizations. For example their centered rating of WSJ News is based on feedback from 51,564 users and two blind surveys. https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart

I am surprised that AP has moved from center to Lean Left as their articles typically include multiple perspectives.

 

[Babin Farms]

 

[Ronnie]

For clarification the guys I was working with wanted the battery to fail so that they could test the chamber I sourced for them at what I thought was a crazy expensive price since the guys at the rc club I was a member of did the same thing to damaged/ puffy lithium batteries but did it the middle of a dirt field. My coworkers over charged the cell such that it was ballooning when the test started. It didn’t take much more of a charge to ignite it. The water was there so the new chamber wouldn’t get to scuffed up on day one. Afterwards they told me that they wanted me to be aware of how explosive these things can be with the primary lesson being don’t go economy on equipment like this, especially since it was their safety at stake. I think they just wanted to screw with me as well as blow something up. Just because most of them were nerdy doesn’t mean they were not fun. They are some of the only things I miss about working there, them and the money that is.

 

[Weeb]

Unfortunately all our media is incredibly biased, as are all our people.

We are pretty well f'ed for the future.

I agree. Back in the day (Walter Kronkite) they just reported the actual news without opinions so you could make your own opinion.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

The issue is that defining what is "centered" is in fact, based on your bias.

For example, I'd argue that WSJ leans left, that fox News leans minority right, amd that most of the things listed as left leaning are more extreme left. But I also haven't heard of most of the extreme left sources, so they might be insanely left to the point it'd blow my little mind.

I consider myself centrist. I think both parties or sides are usually wrong, and the correct action plan is usually in the middle. I think both sides are looking out more for their own financial interests than the country, with the left being more abusive of this and the right being more honest about it. But a lot of people on here would either say I lean heavily left or heavily right, based on where they sit.

The really unfortunate part is the two sides have diverged so far from the middle they can't find a common ground. Only the extremists are getting closer together, as they both sweep around the political circle to fascist.

Spot on.

Its been a long time since we have seen the likes of Walter Kronkite, Jerry Dunphy and George Putnam. Those men delivered the news in its entirety, and had a separate segment for their opinion. George Putnam in particular had a short segment at the end of the news titled One reporters opinion, and he pointed out both sides of the topic. On our local station when I was a teenager had a segment with Bill Press \ and this other guy who‘s name escapes me at the moment / and they would have a discussion wherein both got the same amount of time and did not cross talk on each other. Mcneil Lehr news hour was another good show way back that dedicated the entire hour to 3 subjects, 20 mins each with no commercials.

Everyone is entitle to their own opinion, but not their own facts.

 

[Neutron]

When news was limited to a few hours a day, one hour in the am, one hour at noon, and one hour in the evening it was more about real news and facts.
No dvrs, no internet.
Then the 24hour news channels came out and needed to grab more attention and filled their time with ratings grabbers instead of unbiased reporting. Then the internet and social media made it worse with everyone thinking what they post is the only truth.
I miss the 70s and 80s, kids played outside and rode bikes, family time was more common.