Is Afghanistan the next Failed State?

[Acard7]

Sad to see what is going on over there, and so quickly after US troops were withdrawn. I don't like to share stuff from CNN, Fox News, etc very often because they tend to be bias, but once in awhile they do post things we all should read.

Live updates: Afghanistan latest news as Taliban forces take Kabul: Live updates

"Taliban spokesman Sohail Shaheen said women would still be allowed to continue their education from primary to higher education.."
Who are the Taliban and how did they take control of Afghanistan so swiftly?

The quote above is saddening, sickening, and angering all at the same time. I would like to say I tend to stay humble and grateful most of the time, but we all definitely don't realize how good we have it all of the time. My thoughts and prayers are with those in Afghanistan, and with those that lost their lives trying to make it a better place over there for over 20 years.

 

[Quad]

I lived there for a number of years at different times between 2000 and 2012; the situation on the ground from contacts there is heartbreaking. I'm having a very difficult time grasping at the thought of a return to how things were under the Taliban in 2000.

 

[captras]

Another embarrassment to the US Military and the USA! Lives and Trillions of dollars wasted thanks to DC Politicians!

 

[BigN8]

Taliban on the loose and an unsecure US Mexico border sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

[Quad]

Taliban on the loose and an unsecure US Mexico border sounds like a recipe for disaster.

The Taliban have been just as on the loose now as they have been for the last 15+ years; they've been aided and abetted by their southeastern neighbor since day 0 in the 1990s. Now, that doesn't mean they won't feel emboldened to do anything. That said, they have largely been concerned with their country and its borders, not as much participating in international affairs on their own. They were happy to abide baddies in the 1990s because they got money from them. My concern is who is Al Qada 2.0 and where is their money going to be coming from?

 

[John McLaughlin]

IMO If the withdrawal was orderly it could have been his finest hour, now, it just might define his legacy.

 

[Bizywk]

There numerous reports that US citizens remain trapped and abandoned in place there. They shut down all flights because people were clinging to the landing gear of aircraft during takeoff and falling to their deaths at altitude.

WND: "U.S. citizens wanting assistance in departing the country should register for any option that might be identified to return to the United States, and must complete this Repatriation Assistance Request for each traveler in their group," the embassy notice said. " Americans trapped in Kabul told to fill out an online evacuation form as Taliban take over

Gateway Pundint: "And to top it off today the United States abandoned its citizens in Afghanistan. They told them to go hide."
Not even the airport is safe.https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/08/us-abandons-american-citizens-afghanistan-tells-go-hide/

 

[HangOutdoors]

What a let down by our government and those in charge. I am not even sure what to say about the situation. The sad thing is that no one will be held accountable for the poor decisions and tragedies which could have been better handled that are occurring. Is this the best we are capable of?

 

[Acard7]

Just sad to see the developments that keep pouring in..

I don’t have Twitter, but the social media platform is allowing leaders and members of the taliban to communicate on there. Per my local news network tonight..

I sure hope multiple countries come together to help Afghanistan. Too many good people in that country that need help.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Look, I have my surprised face on…

 

[NewBoater]

These facts below blow my mind. And we spent all this money that could have helped our country and lost so many lives for what? To pull out everyone so fast and watch all that hard work go to waste? All the weapons we supplied them with and the training for fighting to take care of themselves. And a soldier said everyone was laying down their guns to the taliban and running. Hundreds of thousands of Afghan soldiers against less than 100,000 Taliban and it sounds like they didn’t even fight. Now, there are reports of Taliban fighters seizing vast supplies of military equipment — including drones, Humvees and mine-resistant vehicles — from the Kunduz airport alone. “Billions of US tax payer $ going to Islamist extremists,” German journalist Julian Röpcke tweeted,


In the 20 years since September 11, 2001, the United States has spent more than $2 trillion on the war in Afghanistan. That’s $300 million dollars per day, every day, for two decades. Or $50,000 for each of Afghanistan’s 40 million people. In baser terms, Uncle Sam has spent more keeping the Taliban at bay than the net worths of Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Bill Gates and the 30 richest billionaires in America, combined.
Those headline numbers include $800 billion in direct war-fighting costs and $85 billion to train the vanquished Afghan army, which folded in the weeks since the Pentagon’s sudden early July closure of Bagram Air Force Base eliminated the promise of air support against the advancing Taliban. U.S. taxpayers have been giving Afghan soldiers $750 million a year in payroll. All told, Brown University’s Costs of War Project estimates the total spending at $2.26 trillion.
And the costs are even greater in terms of lives lost. There have been 2,500 U.S. military deaths in Afghanistan, and nearly 4,000 more U.S. civilian contractors killed. That pales beside the estimated 69,000 Afghan military police, 47,000 civilians killed, plus 51,000 dead opposition fighters. The cost so far to care for 20,000 U.S. casualties has been $300 billion, with another half-trillion or so expected to come.

So saddening and then I read this

Aug. 21, 2017: President Donald Trump cautions against "hasty" troop withdrawal from Afghanistan that "would create a vacuum.

Such a tragedy on so many levels.

 

[Quad]

These facts below blow my mind. And we spent all this money that could have helped our country and lost so many lives for what? To pull out everyone so fast and watch all that hard work go to waste? All the weapons we supplied them with and the training for fighting to take care of themselves. And a soldier said everyone was laying down their guns to the taliban and running. Hundreds of thousands of Afghan soldiers against less than 100,000 Taliban and it sounds like they didn’t even fight. Now, there are reports of Taliban fighters seizing vast supplies of military equipment — including drones, Humvees and mine-resistant vehicles — from the Kunduz airport alone. “Billions of US tax payer $ going to Islamist extremists,” German journalist Julian Röpcke tweeted,


In the 20 years since September 11, 2001, the United States has spent more than $2 trillion on the war in Afghanistan. That’s $300 million dollars per day, every day, for two decades. Or $50,000 for each of Afghanistan’s 40 million people. In baser terms, Uncle Sam has spent more keeping the Taliban at bay than the net worths of Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Bill Gates and the 30 richest billionaires in America, combined.
Those headline numbers include $800 billion in direct war-fighting costs and $85 billion to train the vanquished Afghan army, which folded in the weeks since the Pentagon’s sudden early July closure of Bagram Air Force Base eliminated the promise of air support against the advancing Taliban. U.S. taxpayers have been giving Afghan soldiers $750 million a year in payroll. All told, Brown University’s Costs of War Project estimates the total spending at $2.26 trillion.
And the costs are even greater in terms of lives lost. There have been 2,500 U.S. military deaths in Afghanistan, and nearly 4,000 more U.S. civilian contractors killed. That pales beside the estimated 69,000 Afghan military police, 47,000 civilians killed, plus 51,000 dead opposition fighters. The cost so far to care for 20,000 U.S. casualties has been $300 billion, with another half-trillion or so expected to come.

So saddening and then I read this

Aug. 21, 2017: President Donald Trump cautions against "hasty" troop withdrawal from Afghanistan that "would create a vacuum.

Such a tragedy on so many levels.

The failures span all administrations that oversaw this conflict. I was on the ground many instances during massive missteps by our nation's political and military leaders and saw first hand grift and corruption at the local and international level. The dollar amounts are beyond staggering.

In the end, Afghan military leaders in many cases ordered their units to stand down, due to arrangements they had made in the wake of the 2020 Doha accords, that laid out the US's withdrawal by May 2021. Even earlier this year, the previous US president's administration was criticizing the current president for not sticking to the timeline of the deal that was struck a year earlier. This deal was so good that they stripped mention of how great it was from lists of accomplishments over the weekend.

Since that 2020 agreement, Afghans have seen the writing on the wall at all levels - the Taliban already had control of more than half of the nation's administrative districts and had quite effective shadow governments in all of the ones they didn't overtly control. At that point, it was a psychological battle and became a matter of saving one's own skin, if you had the ability to do so. Personally, even if we had met the May 1 withdrawal deadline set out in the 2020 agreement with even the best of plans, it's EXTREMELY likely we would have seen the government fall by this point, especially since the "summer fighting season" (a literal term used) would have allowed time for massive advances.

 

[ripler]

IMO If the withdrawal was orderly it could have been his finest hour, now, it just might define his legacy.

He's pointing fingers at everyone else and blaming them for his problems, so he already has his scapegoats. I know we aren't allowed to get political, but we all know who he's blaming.

 

[Acard7]

The failures span all administrations that oversaw this conflict. I was on the ground many instances during massive missteps by our nation's political and military leaders and saw first hand grift and corruption at the local and international level. The dollar amounts are beyond staggering.

In the end, Afghan military leaders in many cases ordered their units to stand down, due to arrangements they had made in the wake of the 2020 Doha accords, that laid out the US's withdrawal by May 2021. Even earlier this year, the previous US president's administration was criticizing the current president for not sticking to the timeline of the deal that was struck a year earlier. This deal was so good that they stripped mention of how great it was from lists of accomplishments over the weekend.

Since that 2020 agreement, Afghans have seen the writing on the wall at all levels - the Taliban already had control of more than half of the nation's administrative districts and had quite effective shadow governments in all of the ones they didn't overtly control. At that point, it was a psychological battle and became a matter of saving one's own skin, if you had the ability to do so. Personally, even if we had met the May 1 withdrawal deadline set out in the 2020 agreement with even the best of plans, it's EXTREMELY likely we would have seen the government fall by this point, especially since the "summer fighting season" (a literal term used) would have allowed time for massive advances.

Definitely a collective failure between administrations and allies for sure.. I’m just wondering why leave all that military equipment? They knew the deadline was coming, I just don’t understand why they would leave it all. Figured you might be able to shed some light on the logistics of getting all that stuff back home.. I’m sure it’s obviously easier said than done but at least pack up the guns, drones, and easier things to carry..

 

[Epsmith19]

I don't think this is the best forum for this conversation. I come here to get away from the news/politics.

 

[Quad]

Definitely a collective failure between administrations and allies for sure.. I’m just wondering why leave all that military equipment? They knew the deadline was coming, I just don’t understand why they would leave it all. Figured you might be able to shed some light on the logistics of getting all that stuff back home.. I’m sure it’s obviously easier said than done but at least pack up the guns, drones, and easier things to carry..

My understanding is that the equipment we're seeing in the hands of the Taliban right now was Afghan National Army equipment that we had given them over the last 20 years. I've heard bits and pieces about drones falling into the hands of the Taliban but i haven't seen any confirmation and it's plausible that they're either very old tech or entirely busted equipment. The US pulled out much/all of its own materiel, as i understand it, but this is not something i can claim absolute authority on.

 

[Bob Cherrie]

Sad to see what is going on over there, and so quickly after US troops were withdrawn. I don't like to share stuff from CNN, Fox News, etc very often because they tend to be bias, but once in awhile they do post things we all should read.

Live updates: Afghanistan latest news as Taliban forces take Kabul: Live updates

"Taliban spokesman Sohail Shaheen said women would still be allowed to continue their education from primary to higher education.."
Who are the Taliban and how did they take control of Afghanistan so swiftly?

The quote above is saddening, sickening, and angering all at the same time. I would like to say I tend to stay humble and grateful most of the time, but we all definitely don't realize how good we have it all of the time. My thoughts and prayers are with those in Afghanistan, and with those that lost their lives trying to make it a better place over there for over 20 years.

Try Wikipedia: "Invasions of Afghanistan" Darius of Persia invaded followed by Alexander the Great as did Queen Victoria the Russians 3 times; their TRIBE is the only government they WANT!

 

[Acard7]

I don't think this is the best forum for this conversation. I come here to get away from the news/politics.

Plenty of off topic threads on this forum, I’d say most of the threads have more reputable people than the news and I have definitely learned a thing or two on subjects other than jet boats. Either way, if it’s off topic and has something you may not like don’t click on it. Just felt compelled to post about it and see other’s research/views/opinions/experiences, as this forum brings both sides of an argument rather than just one.

 

[Dean P]

This is a lose lose situation. There are truly no winners in war. It's gut wrenching on both sides.

 

[Quad]

Try Wikipedia: "Invasions of Afghanistan" Darius of Persia invaded followed by Alexander the Great as did Queen Victoria the Russians 3 times; their TRIBE is the only government they WANT!

There is an interesting level of truth to that statement. I think that most nations can sympathize with that sort of sentiment; no one wants to be ruled from the outside if an internal option is viable, even if it's gross and terrible. At least you're marginally in control at that point. Does that mean I agree with the outcome or the philosophies of the Taliban? Absolutely, unabashedly "NO", however I can sympathize with a desire for self rule and however democratically elected the western-supported regime was, the perception was always laced with it being a puppet state, and I don't think that perspective was entirely inaccurate.

Very brief and somewhat stupid story: I was visiting a buddy on-base in Washington state c.2005. We were walking around and saw a large grouping of Chinese (PLA) soldiers marching past in full PLA uniform. I had a serious WTF moment along with a visceral reaction to seeing non-US military on US soil. I was immediately shocked at my own reaction. Here I was, having lived in numerous countries by this time and by all accounts a very open-minded individual, having this sort of reaction. Regardless, turns out they were there for joint training exercises. As simple as that lesson was, i can only imagine what it's like to be a citizen of one country and live under an occupying force, no matter how good they are. I asked friends in those countries for their perspectives, and their responses were always guarded. I can't blame them.