JBP Lateral Thruster MOD - Feedback PLZ

[Seadeals]

After many additional hours of operating with the lateral thrusters, I wanted to give an update (sorry if it is less entertaining than the first).

Specific to my “first gen boat” 2006 hull and original pumps with Thrust Vector XLs and Lateral Thrusters, I have determined the lateral thrusters definitely have reduced the reverse thrust in the reverse (idle rpm) detent. If using to slow forward movement, the slowing affect is clearly less responsive now that I have been able to test in multiple conditions with deliberate precision maneuvers. The reduction in the reverse thrust has also affected my neutral (idle rpm) thrust such that the original slight creep forward after several seconds, now results in forward movement right from engine start.

This is not a negative review in any way. I love the Lateral Thrusters and the stern maneuverability they provide, so the reverse difference is a worthwhile trade-off. It does lead me to a point where I think I will make adjustments to the reverse gates for a lower position (more nozzle blockage) in neutral. As for reverse power, I still have plenty available on the water by adding throttle (rpm); but I do have a harder time reversing off the trailer and will just launch a little deeper now.

 

[Beachbummer]

I found in my case, while replacing the throttle levers, that there was no way to add more reverse while keeping the gate fully open in forward.

If you find a way, let us know what you did.

 

[swatski]

As for reverse power, I still have plenty available on the water by adding throttle (rpm); but I do have a harder time reversing off the trailer and will just launch a little deeper now.

Thank you for the honest review, I do not see it as negative at all, just makes sense.

Also - makes some of us feel better and not being insane... (...for asking and suggesting weakened reverse may indeed be a trade-off with LTs).

--

 

[McMark]

For those having questions regarding reverse power: mark your steering wheel where the nozzles are centered. (Especially on 2015 and up 24’). This allows all the reverse thrust to exit just as it always has, directly under the boat with no loss of reverse thrust. Once you get off center the lateral thrusters progressively come in to play.

Lateral thrusters have easily been the best upgrade I’ve done to the boat. They improve dock handling and safety 10 fold over stock. Who wouldn’t want that.

-Mark

 

[LukePrinsloo]

For those having questions regarding reverse power: mark your steering wheel where the nozzles are centered. (Especially on 2015 and up 24’). This allows all the reverse thrust to exit just as it always has, directly under the boat with no loss of reverse thrust. Once you get off center the lateral thrusters progressively come in to play.

Lateral thrusters have easily been the best upgrade I’ve done to the boat. They improve dock handling and safety 10 fold over stock. Who wouldn’t want that.

-Mark

To be clear, this is not a @swatski "safety", this is SAFETY.
A real safety improvement.
[EDIT] Apparently I was not clear in my "to be clear"...
This most definitely a safety mod and not the kind you try mislabel to get your wife to approve it.

 

[McMark]

...

 

[LukePrinsloo]

Luke. I don’t understand what you mean in the above. I don’t read between the lines well.

If lack of control in strong current, wind, or wake isn’t a safety concern I stand corrected.

I also have been boating my entire life both in the ocean and fresh water, am a degreed engineer with 35 years experience, and hold a private pilots license. PM me if you think I’m full of crap. I’ll gladly explain.

I was making a tongue in cheek referral to Swatski labeling every mod a safety mod for spousal approval.
the LT's are a very real safety mod with real application that helps in every way. (once I figure out which way to turn the wheel!).
I was trying to reinforce, rather than deflate your safety comment.

 

[McMark]

Oops. So sorry Luke. I really don’t read between the lines well. (old cranky people problems). I didn’t understand the swatski reference.

I just feel pretty strongly how good of a product this turned out to be for me. It’s really what the boat needed.

 

[LukePrinsloo]

As a degreed engineer of only 10 years expereience, PE (SC), most of a Masters in Civil Engineering with a Thesis in Chemical Engineering. I totally understand that!

 

[McMark]

I sent you a pm.

 

[biffdotorg]

I will say it again, if I have not in this thread.... Being able to move the stern of the boat over just a few feet to my downed boarder, rather than making another loop is money!

Being able to do it without moving backwards is even better. It's amazing how you can pinpoint the stern to the perfect launch position for surfers and boarders. And much less chance of sucking a rope as your rearward momentum is nowhere near as great unless you go straight back. I do believe this can be presented as a bonus feature and not a negative when coming off a lift or trailer.

 

[Shookie]

I wrote a quick review in the 242 dedicated thread but I'll add here.... really can't say enough good stuff about the thrusters and vectors. I bought both during a Memorial Day deal and installed right away. This is my first jet boat and I have to say I struggled with handling at low speed and manuevering around stuff. It was honestly a hard conversation with my wife to spend hundreds on upgrades to a $70K boat...... First time out, I had 0 comments from my wife or kids about my driving and the fact that I couldn't go in a straight line thru no wake zones. Took a bit of practice using the lateral thrusters, but I have the full seal of approval now. So easy to pull into a dock, back out, etc. I can honestly say there's 0% chance you won't be happy with the thrusters!

I have 2 minor comments/requests..... I wasn't a huge fan of the spring or the bolt on the thrust vectors. With how the instructions were written, the spring was a bit hard to install. I ended up removing the bolt on the steering linkage to put the spring on. Once on there, the spring touches the bolt/nut. I think at some point this might wear from rubbing and cause the spring to break. I assume these can be ordered.... might be worth looking at a different spring design too. Or, maybe I installed it wrong....??? I would like to see a hex bolt too, like the steering linkage has. I made sure it was tight, and I felt like my allen wrench was on the verge of stripping.... maybe that's just me.

 

[MidnightRider]

I wrote a quick review in the 242 dedicated thread but I'll add here.... really can't say enough good stuff about the thrusters and vectors. I bought both during a Memorial Day deal and installed right away. This is my first jet boat and I have to say I struggled with handling at low speed and manuevering around stuff. It was honestly a hard conversation with my wife to spend hundreds on upgrades to a $70K boat...... First time out, I had 0 comments from my wife or kids about my driving and the fact that I couldn't go in a straight line thru no wake zones. Took a bit of practice using the lateral thrusters, but I have the full seal of approval now. So easy to pull into a dock, back out, etc. I can honestly say there's 0% chance you won't be happy with the thrusters!

I have 2 minor comments/requests..... I wasn't a huge fan of the spring or the bolt on the thrust vectors. With how the instructions were written, the spring was a bit hard to install. I ended up removing the bolt on the steering linkage to put the spring on. Once on there, the spring touches the bolt/nut. I think at some point this might wear from rubbing and cause the spring to break. I assume these can be ordered.... might be worth looking at a different spring design too. Or, maybe I installed it wrong....??? I would like to see a hex bolt too, like the steering linkage has. I made sure it was tight, and I felt like my allen wrench was on the verge of stripping.... maybe that's just me.

View attachment 81955

No reason that I can think of that that bolt on the steering arm couldn't be put in from the top instead of the bottom - or would the bolt head still rub?

 

[Shookie]

No reason that I can think of that that bolt on the steering arm couldn't be put in from the top instead of the bottom - or would the bolt head still rub?

Their instructions/video say to install it like I have it... so I did. I think it would still hit, maybe not quite as much...??? When I installed these, I had just gotten home from a trip to Germany and I didn't feel like switching that bolt around. Call me lazy, I mean jet lagged.... Perhaps next time I have it home I'll flip the bolt.

 

[swatski]

This allows all the reverse thrust to exit just as it always has, directly under the boat with no loss of reverse thrust. Once you get off center the lateral thrusters progressively come in to play.

Sorry, @McMark, no disrespect, but the LTs do obstruct reverse thrust under the boat (even with steering nozzles strait up).
It is not a matter of opinion.
Full to strbd (left) and strait up (right) clips:


How much is that obstruction (in the strait up position - in the clip on the right)? Who knows!
Will Owen will say 5%, I have heard 40%, whatever... What really matters though is how much it affects reverse thrust (pulling back in strait line).

I believe @Seadeals post here is the first to provide some metrics which got me excited.
It is hard to be super specific, but his idea of using "neutral" drag and launching off of a trailer as examples is compelling - to me, and helpful at the time when I'm trying to make a decision:

1. Stick with Cobra Fangs
   
2. Switch to LTs
   
3. Wait and buy the new Yamaha OEM lateral thruster nozzles

I do not question the overall performance and benefits of the JBP LT system, I think we have heard from enough members here - the LTs work! (in moving stern sideways) Those also do not seem to affect the reverse in any major way. However, for me (and those of us who need the best strait reverse any of these mods can afford), I'm still not sure which way to go...


To @biffdotorg's point,

I do believe this can be presented as a bonus feature and not a negative when coming off a lift or trailer.

I would say - it depends on the particulars.
Let me give quick two examples to illustrate:

1. Pulling off a dock lift, I often sit a bit high on the bunks with the floaters fully submerged as they sit on top of muck/silt - it's like there is no hard bottom; the less RPM I use (when pulling off) the less I disturb the muck under; in other words - the more directed the reverse thrust the better
2. Launching from shallow ramps, available strait reverse thrust can make a difference between being able to launch or not

I value @Seadeals review and the actual "metrics" he provided - for the first time here.

Without thios kind of empirical testing it is impossible to know, or theoretically predict, what these mods do.
That's because we are dealing with TURBULENCE (opposite of laminar flow), one of the last unsolved problems in classical physics.

--

 

[MidnightRider]

Sorry, @McMark, no disrespect, but the LTs do obstruct reverse thrust under the boat (even with steering nozzles strait up).
It is not a matter of opinion.
Full to strbd (left) and strait up (right) clips:
View attachment 81961View attachment 81962

How much is that obstruction (in the strait up position - in the clip on the right)? Who knows!
Will Owen will say 5%, I have heard 40%, whatever... What really matters though is how much it affects reverse thrust (pulling back in strait line).

I believe @Seadeals post here is the first to provide some metrics which got me excited.
It is hard to be super specific, but his idea of using "neutral" drag and launching off of a trailer as examples is compelling - to me, and helpful at the time when I'm trying to make a decision:

1. Stick with Cobra Fangs
   
2. Switch to LTs
   
3. Wait and buy the new Yamaha OEM lateral thruster nozzles

I do not question the overall performance and benefits of the JBP LT system, I think we have heard from enough members here - the LTs work! (in moving stern sideways) Those also do not seem to affect the reverse in any major way. However, for me (and those of us who need the best strait reverse any of these mods can afford), I'm still not sure which way to go...


To @biffdotorg's point,

I would say - it depends on the particulars.
Let me give quick two examples to illustrate:

1. Pulling off a dock lift, I often sit a bit high on the bunks with the floaters fully submerged as they sit on top of muck/silt - it's like there is no hard bottom; the less RPM I use (when pulling off) the less I disturb the muck under; in other words - the more directed the reverse thrust the better
2. Launching from shallow ramps, available strait reverse thrust can make a difference between being able to launch or not

I value @Seadeals review and the actual "metrics" he provided - for the first time here.

Without thios kind of empirical testing it is impossible to know, or theoretically predict, what these mods do.
That's because we are dealing with TURBULENCE (opposite of laminar flow), one of the last unsolved problems in classical physics.

--

I'm maybe the biggest LT fan boy there is - love those things. But yeah I'd say @swatski pretty much got it nailed here. There is no way around the fact that they do obstruct straight back reverse. How much? Minimal IMO opinion, 5% seems like a fair number to throw out. I personally didn't notice a difference really but I didn't really have a hard metric to compare, which I think you need to really give a fair assessment as I believe @Seadeals did a good job of. Its really about trade offs, even though I've never used CJ Mega fangs, I have no doubt that straight back reverse would be much better with the Megas (just makes sense if you look at the configurations of each), but for me I'm really sold on the extra thrust vectors that the LTs provide and the many ways you can use those vectors in coordinations with the stock vectors using different dual throttle tricks. I use these for all kinds of maneuvers and situations. What remains to be seen is the new Yamaha nozzles, this could be interesting to get the best of both worlds potentially. I saw in a thread posted earlier this morning where Will said "I test drove a new boat with them installed and though I think Lateral Thrusters are marginally better the factory setup is very good. They will do well with it and I doubt you'll hear much complaining about reverse control anymore." . That is a pretty good plug from someone who sells the LTs. I'll be interested in seeing some reviews of those in the near future.

 

[swatski]

I'm maybe the biggest LT fan boy there is - love those things. But yeah I'd say @swatski pretty much got it nailed here. There is no way around the fact that they do obstruct straight back reverse. How much? Minimal IMO opinion, 5% seems like a fair number to throw out. I personally didn't notice a difference really but I didn't really have a hard metric to compare, which I think you need to really give a fair assessment as I believe @Seadeals did a good job of. Its really about trade offs, even though I've never used CJ Mega fangs, I have no doubt that straight back reverse would be much better with the Megas (just makes sense if you look at the configurations of each), but for me I'm really sold on the extra thrust vectors that the LTs provide and the many ways you can use those vectors in coordinations with the stock vectors using different dual throttle tricks. I use these for all kinds of maneuvers and situations. What remains to be seen is the new Yamaha nozzles, this could be interesting to get the best of both worlds potentially. I saw in a thread posted earlier this morning where Will said "I test drove a new boat with them installed and though I think Lateral Thrusters are marginally better the factory setup is very good. They will do well with it and I doubt you'll hear much complaining about reverse control anymore." . That is a pretty good plug from someone who sells the LTs. I'll be interested in seeing some reviews of those in the near future.

Amen!

--

 

[McMark]

I’m not going to debate the topic. The thrusters work amazing and I’d put them on any Yamaha I had from here on out as the very first mod. They’re that good in actual boating scenarios. They took a boat that I’ve been on the fence on and made it a total keeper. Stern control stinks on these boats. Will fixed it and made it actually better than other drive options. Can I see a little of the thruster tunnel through my nozzle? Just a touch but you’re splitting hairs.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

@swatski when you can get those to also greatly enhance the steering in both directions and at all speeds from idle to wide open, including water sports and off power steering control like the mega fangs added to the steering system do now I know you will go for it.
Otherwise we both know you will not be happy giving up all that steering control.
The magnum A K system with the mega fangs made your day.
That being said now we have the Ultimate A K system and the mega fang plus, MORE, MORE ,MORE! Huge difference from the magnum ak and small single ak fang previously used by you and compared in REVERSE ONLY by another post.
So I know several people are installing the lL T 's with my ultimate system and also using them with my magnum a k system, Because I made that possible for them.
So remember the ultimate ak is also compatible with both the mega fang plus system and the lateral thrusters for even more choices. So MORE choices for you as well. It just never gets easier!

 

[Neutron]

I can say from my experience i havent felt any neutral creep forward at all.
I trailer my 240 and go out quite often and never noticed any loss in straight reversing thrust off the trailer. My ramp isnt long and when the water is low i have no issues.
If there is some percentage loss, i dont feel it.