Thoughts and demo rides of wake / towsports boats: Moomba Max, Axis A22, MB Sports

[haknslash]

I've prob texted my sales guy 300 times in the past 2 months lol.

Hell I never deleted my oringnal text with my guy . Lots of info in it for us so I keep it. I also kept my previous salemans text with my Yamaha because it had some warranty stuff in it but finally deleted it last week cleaning up space on the phone.

 

[MattFX4]

@haknslash @Recoveringfiberglassaddic

All good points about dealer support. My friend raves about his Tige dealer, Pull Watersports. Also have a buddy who has a Supra he bought from Atlanta Marine (the Supra/Moomba dealer here), and he has nothing but good things to say about them. I'm just not sure ordering a boat is the route I plan to take. I would rather find a leftover '19 if I go new, or a 1 to 2 year old slightly used. This worries me though to hear that service departments give priority to the guys who order them, or buy new from the dealer. Not necessarily sure I agree with this, but I guess it is what it is. I am very interested to see what Moomba releases tomorrow. A smaller version of the Makai may be exactly what I am looking for if the price is right.

 

[haknslash]

Well think of it the other way. You drop down the kind of money these boats go for you kind of expect, or hope in the least, to get great service when you need it most. Often problems arise on the water and not on the trailer. I had to have three replace my triducer because it wouldn’t consistently show depth. When I got my boat back I went straight to the water to test it and they didn’t have it quite aligned causing my Speedo to be like 15 mph off lol. Called the dealer and the owner answered the phone. He said all lines were busy but to hang tight and he would go walk to the service dept to have someone call me right back. They came to me on the water and fixed it right there along with doing multiple speed passes with gps to dual it in. That’s great service and I would never expect my Yamaha dealer to go that far nor would they.

Yea it sucks for the guy who buys a used 2009 Malibu but he’s also not paying close to six figures or more on a boat nor is the dealer obligated to warranties if the used boat doesn’t come with one. I know I’d be pissed if I dropped the money and was held up because the service shop couldn’t pull 1 or 2 guys off a few used boats in the way causing weeks before someone could help me.

 

[MattFX4]

Well think of it the other way. You drop down the kind of money these boats go for you kind of expect, or hope in the least, to get great service when you need it most. Often problems arise on the water and not on the trailer. I had to have three replace my triducer because it wouldn’t consistently show depth. When I got my boat back I went straight to the water to test it and they didn’t have it quite aligned causing my Speedo to be like 15 mph off lol. Called the dealer and the owner answered the phone. He said all lines were busy but to hang tight and he would go walk to the service dept to have someone call me right back. They came to me on the water and fixed it right there along with doing multiple speed passes with gps to dual it in. That’s great service and I would never expect my Yamaha dealer to go that far nor would they.

Yea it sucks for the guy who buys a used 2009 Malibu but he’s also not paying close to six figures or more on a boat nor is the dealer obligated to warranties if the used boat doesn’t come with one. I know I’d be pissed if I dropped the money and was held up because the service shop couldn’t pull 1 or 2 guys off a few used boats in the way causing weeks before someone could help me.

No it totally get it, and understand it. I would just hope that if I purchased a used 2019 or 2018 that Moomba, Tige, or whoever would stand behind their product and be willing to help with service if it weren't bought new. Especially since it would still have warranty left on it. I'm sure buying a leftover wouldn't be a problem since it would be sold as a new boat by the dealer.

 

[Recoveringfiberglassaddic]

If you are buying a 1 year old holdover you will likely get that same experience. Honestly, if you are buying a slightly used 1-2 yo boat in theory a lot of those new boat kinks should be ironed out at that point. Unless the previous owner was oblivious to things like not noticing his depth wasnt reading or the his board rack rattles going down the lake or whatever.

As a tech I know new boats OCCASIONALLY have issues. Not all but some. The goal is to get thru all those issues in the first 50 hours and have the boat flawless after that.

 

[haknslash]

^^^yup.

A leftover or even slightly used 1-2 year boat will likely be treated like a new boat to the dealer as long as the used boat is same brand they sell. Say if it’s a Tige dealer and they don’t sell Heyday but someone traded one in, then next customer who buys it has problems outside of their warranty (if there is one), that dealer doesn’t have a connection with Heyday that’s when you will run into issues and get pushed out fo service line for someone that has bought a new or newer boat the dealer carries with their respective MFG. Most dealers only have a handful of service techs and some of those techs travel around to lakes, homes, etc while others stay at the shop. Depending on the volume that dealer sells boats can affect how busy or available the service is and what your turnaround time is. Buying new or slightly used but same boat mfg the dealer sales will go a long ways. These boats are hand built custom made to order using sourced parts and things will come up that are out of your control. For instance the recalls SC had on high power alternators using on the 450+ engines or the recall on fuel gaskets by a fuel pump MFG that affected several boat MFG’s since they all use a lot of those types of parts.

 

[swatski]

As a tech I know new boats OCCASIONALLY have issues. Not all but some. The goal is to get thru all those issues in the first 50 hours and have the boat flawless after that.

That is true for boat manufacturers, Yamaha jet boat division is a little different, more like a atv/ski makers. I feel they had an amazing thing going before the 2008 crash but then it just went by the way of marketing and legal - or so it seems, the QC is terrible.

My boat had so many issues (all really trivial to fix, sadly), it took me a better part of the first two seasons to deal with. I’m still not totally done, for example some of my stern thru-hull fittings, exhausts outlets need to be replaced etc., to make me happy.

I’m worried they (Yamaha) are pricing themselves out of the market, with the higher trim models.
(you know, they make Wake Boats now, like the 242x... lol)

I’m happy to the point that I can not think of a boat I would want to upgrade to...
(that could give me what I can now get of out my one relatively inexpensive 2016 AR240 - in one trailerable package - after three seasons of working on it, lol)

—

 

[MattFX4]

@haknslash new video up on moomba‘s Facebook. The Kaiyen. You get a little glimpse of it in the video. I took a screenshot, but not the best. I like the lines of the boat from what I see.

 

[nate kennedy]

I was talking to a sales rep for Moomba (thinking of making the move) and he said it’s basically a smaller version of the makai with like 3k ballast on a 21’ boat... sounded like it was replacing the mondo

 

[MattFX4]

I was talking to a sales rep for Moomba (thinking of making the move) and he said it’s basically a smaller version of the makai with like 3k ballast on a 21’ boat... sounded like it was replacing the mondo

Hmm. 21’ is getting on the smaller side of what I would want. I think 22-23’ is a sweet spot for boat size.

 

[haknslash]

Now that they are leaking I can come clean and say I've seen it in person during the factory tour. I believe it at have been one of the first few made out of the mold. The one I saw was red and black. It's a nice boat and will replace the Mondo in the lineup. If you look close you'll also spot a new gel flake color for 2020 which I also got to see sprayed on a beautiful gold flake and white Supra SE500. It looks amazing and different than other colors you see. I jokingly told Drew Tinker they should call it "gold digger" if they haven't already named the color

 

[nate kennedy]

Hmm. 21’ is getting in the smaller side of what I would want. I think 22-23’ is a sweet spot for boat size.

Who knows if it’s 100% accurate, but I was looking at the mondo about the same size of our 212X in all reality and he said that with the success of the makai the kaiyen would replace the mondo with similar styling to the makai... mojo is 23 and Craz is 22(if I remember correctly) so makes sense prob not going to have multiple models same size

 

[haknslash]

It's accurate. Mondo is the oldest boat in the lineup and 21' keeps is in a good size. Not too big and not too small. 21' on a wake boat feels like a 23' Yamaha in terms of cockpit.

 

[nate kennedy]

It's accurate. Mondo is the oldest boat in the lineup and 21' keeps is in a good size. Not too big and not too small. 21' on a wake boat feels like a 23' Yamaha in terms of cockpit.

That’s why I was looking at the mondo initially... technically same size as our 212X, but it felt so bigger in my opinion. I’m sure that has to do with the Yamaha transom counting as length

 

[haknslash]

Yup you got it, the swim platform is what throws it off for comparing jetboat sizes to wake boats. also worth mentioning is that on a Yamaha, or any jetboat with integrated swim platform, the running surface is that much less as than advertised. So 19'5" Yamaha really is running closer to 18' hull length. 24' Yamaha more likely around 22'5" hull length and so on.

This is an illustration I made and posted on page q that I think helps illustrate the differences. Obviously it's not 100% to scale but I tried to get it as close as possible using the cup holders as a scale reference and sized the boats accordingly since they all share a similar cup holder diameter.

 

[MattFX4]

It's accurate. Mondo is the oldest boat in the lineup and 21' keeps is in a good size. Not too big and not too small. 21' on a wake boat feels like a 23' Yamaha in terms of cockpit.

That is true. As long as it has 8.5’ beam I’m sure it would feel as big or close to a 240 series Yamaha. The wrap around seating creates more space compared to the captains chair.

 

[nate kennedy]

That is true. As long as it has 8.5’ beam I’m sure it would feel as big or close to a 240 series Yamaha. The wrap around seating creates more space compared to the captains chair.

I agree 100% with that. Growing up my dad has sea rays which had the 2 captains chairs so when we got our 212X I really wanted to swap the bench for the chair and our sales rep convinced me to give it some time... I’m glad he did after having the wrap around J seating I don’t really want anything else now! I was disappointed to see the new 212X went to captains chairs when the redesign came out

 

[haknslash]

That is true. As long as it has 8.5’ beam I’m sure it would feel as big or close to a 240 series Yamaha. The wrap around seating creates more space compared to the captains chair.

For sure my Max feels larger than the 240 and 242's I've been on. The beam seams to carry further along the gunnels than the Yamaha which likes to taper in as you move towards the stern. The Yamaha rear swim deck is considerably less wide than most vdrives would be on the sun pad or rear swim platform. @blacksapphirez previously had an SX240 with lots of seat time in @Bill D's 2010 242 LS (those have the convertible lounge) and when he went for a ride in my Max he said it definitely feels much larger and more spacious. I've had 6 grown adults in the bow of my boat and granted they were stuffed in there (by their own choice lol) it had the room to hold them. I had another 9 people in the cockpit and still had plenty of room to add another couple of folks. I'd never want to really drive it that on the regular basis full of people because it becomes insane and draws eyes of the cops lol but the boat did great pulling that crew! I think it would be hard to fit 15-17 -people in a Yamaha comfortably, if even possible. I'm sure you felt how much larger the Tige is once you got inside it and if you can remember how it was on your Yamaha. I'm not sure how wide Tige boats are and I think they run a little less width than a Yamaha but I can't recall without researching them. Been a while since I looked at them. I agree the older ones always made me nervous when seeing the low freeboard. It looks easy to take a shot over the bow and stern coming off to idle or crossing a roller. I don't have this issue on my Max obviously with its super tall freeboard and I have gone through some big rollers and rough waters and never an issue. I have been really impressed with what this boat can take and does't beat you up.

 

[MattFX4]

For sure my Max feels larger than the 240 and 242's I've been on. The beam seams to carry further along the gunnels than the Yamaha which likes to taper in as you move towards the stern. The Yamaha rear swim deck is considerably less wide than most vdrives would be on the sun pad or rear swim platform. @blacksapphirez previously had an SX240 with lots of seat time in @Bill D's 2010 242 LS (those have the convertible lounge) and when he went for a ride in my Max he said it definitely feels much larger and more spacious. I've had 6 grown adults in the bow of my boat and granted they were stuffed in there (by their own choice lol) it had the room to hold them. I had another 9 people in the cockpit and still had plenty of room to add another couple of folks. I'd never want to really drive it that on the regular basis full of people because it becomes insane and draws eyes of the cops lol but the boat did great pulling that crew! I think it would be hard to fit 15-17 -people in a Yamaha comfortably, if even possible. I'm sure you felt how much larger the Tige is once you got inside it and if you can remember how it was on your Yamaha. I'm not sure how wide Tige boats are and I think they run a little less width than a Yamaha but I can't recall without researching them. Been a while since I looked at them. I agree the older ones always made me nervous when seeing the low freeboard. It looks easy to take a shot over the bow and stern coming off to idle or crossing a roller. I don't have this issue on my Max obviously with its super tall freeboard and I have gone through some big ones when the huge cabin cruisers and yachts go by on the lake that really belong on the freaking ocean or gulf!

Yep for sure. It felt much bigger than my Yamaha. The one I was on was 8.5’ wide, but yeah the freeboard is lower than what you get on Moombas for sure, unless you jump up in to the $130k models. I’m going to take a hard look at this new model. 21’ may work since the most I usually have out on any regular occasion is 6 adults and 3 kids.

 

[haknslash]

It would be plenty big for that crew. I think the new Kaiyen will sell like hot cakes. It's literally a mini Makai minus 1,000 lbs ballast. I'm not sure if it will be offered with the 450 engine as an options since the Mondo could only come with the 400. Not that you'd need the 450 in that boat at sea level anyways. It will be interesting to see all the details and what's new for 2020. I love/hate this time of year lol.