Thrust vectors and lateral thrusters

[biffdotorg]

Quick point that has been made over and over to new owners. Don't assume you need anything at all until you drive your new boat. You may find that others experience may not apply to you.

As much as I love the steering enhancement we have put on more than one jetboat, I spent a good deal of time driving them with and without. It's all in what you learn to do. That being said, I truly appreciate the upgrade in control and confidence they have inspired. But until you have done that yourself on a brand new boat, you may never appreciate what they do, once installed.

So again, get and and make up your own mind if you actually "need" to put anything on it. You may find it works just fine as is.

 

[fatboyroy]

Agree with Tab and Biff, I had mine for 3 months with no upgrade and not planning on adding anything. Only reason I got the Thrust Vector is when few friend visited and took them boating, it was a very windy day and choppy. It was a lot of twist and turn to dock it, so I decided to get TV and it did make steering on slow speed more responsive.

 

[pgeastcoast]

 

[Affinity]

Yamaha added their version of Lateral Thrusters to their boats starting in 2019, i.e. they are already there, and are not an item that is needed to add on.

Why do you think JetBoatPilot is making L Thrusters for new Yamaha's if the newer ones already have it installed from Yamaha? Just bought a 2022 195S, not delivered yet. My first jet boat. Was thinking of Thrust Vectors for forward and L Thrusters for reverse. ??

 

[Neutron]

Lateral thrusters are probably one of the top mods on my boat by far.
Anyone adding them to their boat will not be disappointed

 

[Affinity]

Lateral thrusters are probably one of the top mods on my boat by far.
Anyone adding them to their boat will not be disappointed

Yea, i can see the need for lateral thrusters. But apparently in 2019, yamaha made lateral thrusters part of their new nozzle, so do 2019 and newer boats really need the JetBoatPilot lateral thrusters? Is the Yamaha original equipment not good enough for lateral backing?

 

[Affinity]

Lateral thrusters are probably one of the top mods on my boat by far.
Anyone adding them to their boat will not be disappointed

PS - love the Buffett reference.....

 

[Can0n11]

Yea, i can see the need for lateral thrusters. But apparently in 2019, yamaha made lateral thrusters part of their new nozzle, so do 2019 and newer boats really need the JetBoatPilot lateral thrusters? Is the Yamaha original equipment not good enough for lateral backing?

I think that the existing lateral thrusters on your 2019 being good enough on your boat would depend on what your application is. I am beta testing the 2.0 lateral thrust reverse sys. on my 2020 19ft FSH and they literally spin the boat on its vertical axis through multiple 360's. They seem to give the rear a more solid feel for "braking" when approaching the trailer with steering centered, and in neutral the boat doesn't wander near as much. Definitely more movement than stock for me and less bow wander; I am running a 36v/3battery trolling motor setup as well so my CG may be complimenting the control. I trailer my boat each time I use it as well.

 

[drewkaree]

Why do you think JetBoatPilot is making L Thrusters for new Yamaha's if the newer ones already have it installed from Yamaha? Just bought a 2022 195S, not delivered yet. My first jet boat. Was thinking of Thrust Vectors for forward and L Thrusters for reverse. ??

I would say the 2.0 version of Will's LT's look to be add-ons to the existing design that Yamaha put on there. As several here have said, see how your boat works before adding anything on. I wanted fins, but I didn't add them instantly, as an example. I have 2 places we frequently visit that were challenging to dock at. I added the Thrust Vector Wake, and have not been disappointed with the performance. As for adding the bolt-on LT's to my setup, I don't feel the need whatsoever. Yamaha's solution fits my needs perfectly, but I have no method of comparison. From the looks of the product, it seems like it would be a definite improvement, but I just can't justify that price point since I don't have any complaints or lack of performance with Yamaha's built-in solution.

I would seriously consider holding off on adding anything to your new boat, use it for a while, and if you still feel the need, pick up your add-ons in a few months. You may find your boat to be pretty easy to handle in its stock form. If I hadn't added my TV's, I could still dock my boat at those places, but it'd be more difficult.

As to your question of why Will is making a 2.0 LT, well, there's a market for his product in older boats, and I'm guessing he's felt a need for improvement in the OEM design of Yamaha's solution. Look at it like some add-on for a car. They already have rubber hoses for your car's engine, why did someone decide to produce silicone hoses? Why make larger oil filters? Why make beam blade wipers? Someone felt the need to improve on something that already exists, and there are people who agree with their philosophy and design.

 

[biffdotorg]

Drewkaree stated it perfectly. Why is Will making it, because there is demand.

The funny part, is we all talk about these things so much on here, everyone that comes to this site begins to think they need it. For the same reason boat brochures and Cabelas catelogs have sat in the bathroom for years. You read about something long enough, you feel you need it as well.

Just from the amount of people with 1-2 year old Yamahas asking, why is this not available for my boat, I bet Will felt the need to improve on Yamaha's design. And you know full well, that most of those asking, are only second guessing the design because of the conversations here. They probably perform really well. But probably not as good as that video JBP released! That looks amazing. (not good enough for me to sell my 242 and upgrade to a new one, but good)

 

[RobbieO]

I'm considering adding the 2.0 LT's to my boat so I can turn away from the dock faster without having to use the throttle. After talking with Will, it's my understanding that the only drawback is losing 25% of reverse power when backing. I'm not thrilled about that aspect.

 

[drewkaree]

After talking with Will, it's my understanding that the only drawback is losing 25% of reverse power when backing. I'm not thrilled about that aspect.

This is one of the reasons, for my typical needs, I don't feel like they would help me. I have to back up at a pier that has a side current and the river bend current pushing you towards the shore at the same time. I don't feel like I can afford to lose anything.

I don't see them as a solution for every boater, but a decision to make after you get some seat time behind the wheel.

 

[biffdotorg]

I'm considering adding the 2.0 LT's to my boat so I can turn away from the dock faster without having to use the throttle. After talking with Will, it's my understanding that the only drawback is losing 25% of reverse power when backing. I'm not thrilled about that aspect.

That was an unknown when we pre-ordered the first version of lateral thrusters. Only to come to find that 25% is nothing, as most of us have never realized the full power of these boats in reverse.

After owning these things for multiple seasons now, I would take up to 50% less reverse power for the incredible control gained by using them. What good is power, if you cannot put it to work.

In fact, the only time I have needed more power, than just a typical bump in reverse was trying to get my boat off a shallow lift or trailer, and that was rare. Most people use way more thrust in tight situations, than they ever should.

These boats have way more reverse power than we will ever need. It's a non issue.

 

[fatboyroy]

I'm considering adding the 2.0 LT's to my boat so I can turn away from the dock faster without having to use the throttle. After talking with Will, it's my understanding that the only drawback is losing 25% of reverse power when backing. I'm not thrilled about that aspect.

I was going to ask him that since he directed the thrust directly to the side. Thanks for the info!

 

[biffdotorg]

I was going to ask him that since he directed the thrust directly to the side. Thanks for the info!

I think people need to understand, these are not redirecting all the thrust to the side. It's an additional outlet, not the only outlet. And JBP's product is just enhancing it, not shutting off the majority of the reverse buckets scoop.

It's important to look at your buckets and understand what is happening before worrying about what they think they are losing.

 

[Affinity]

I would say the 2.0 version of Will's LT's look to be add-ons to the existing design that Yamaha put on there. As several here have said, see how your boat works before adding anything on. I wanted fins, but I didn't add them instantly, as an example. I have 2 places we frequently visit that were challenging to dock at. I added the Thrust Vector Wake, and have not been disappointed with the performance. As for adding the bolt-on LT's to my setup, I don't feel the need whatsoever. Yamaha's solution fits my needs perfectly, but I have no method of comparison. From the looks of the product, it seems like it would be a definite improvement, but I just can't justify that price point since I don't have any complaints or lack of performance with Yamaha's built-in solution.

I would seriously consider holding off on adding anything to your new boat, use it for a while, and if you still feel the need, pick up your add-ons in a few months. You may find your boat to be pretty easy to handle in its stock form. If I hadn't added my TV's, I could still dock my boat at those places, but it'd be more difficult.

As to your question of why Will is making a 2.0 LT, well, there's a market for his product in older boats, and I'm guessing he's felt a need for improvement in the OEM design of Yamaha's solution. Look at it like some add-on for a car. They already have rubber hoses for your car's engine, why did someone decide to produce silicone hoses? Why make larger oil filters? Why make beam blade wipers? Someone felt the need to improve on something that already exists, and there are people who agree with their philosophy and design.

Perfect explanation. Thanks!! I’ll definitely wait on the LT. But may still put on the TV’s before delivery. From all accounts, they work great.

 

[Can0n11]

Here is a pic of area the LT's use for side vectoring thrust.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Here is my thoughts on the new nozzle design from 2019 .


In 2019 Yamaha came out with new nozzle designs to assist with reverse control and I believe they work fine in comparison to the previous 2 nozzle designs. I doubt most people fully understand reverse on jet boats..
SO lets look at a common prop boat of similar size. The transom is smooth and angled out at the top, some are also angled out in the center to allow the boat to move and turn easily and predictably when backing up.
A jet boat usually has a flat transom and some have a deck above the pumps.
The transom has the pumps protruding under the water line when the boat is off plane.
With Yamaha boats The pumps sit in a recess in the transom. One may actually think of those recesses as sea anchors when it comes to trying to back the boat as those add drag and require more reverse thrust to move the boat through the water backward as compared to the regular transom of a prop boat.
The angled transoms of a regular prop boat also lift the back of the boat when in reverse reducing the contact surfaces thus reducing the force needed to go backward.
On the Yamaha jet boats the angle of the reverse thrust on all the nozzles also helps to lift the transom when backing.
And the same angles also lift the transom and puts the bow down in the water when using reverse to stop, especially in an emergency stop.
I would believe that when Yamaha put the angles in the newest nozzle designs from 2019 they also had to calculate the necessary thrust downward and the new slight angle outward so the boat still lifts up in the back when reverse is applied.
So is it really a good idea to take about 1/2 of that calculated thrust Yamaha applied and shoot it out both sides of the nozzle laterally removing both the downward angle and the forward angle ???
And since equal and opposing forces cancel each other out I don't see the benefit of the setup on that aspect either hmmm . Hey it's your boat do whatever you like to it !!!
I made the fangs to increase the useable reverse thrust for backing off trailer, beaches and floating docks also for capturing and directing more of the reverse thrust to improve the steering response in reverse and improve the stopping power, then I added the longer mega fang plus for added power steering effect as well as quicker turning on plane ..

 

[Affinity]

Here is my thoughts on the new nozzle design from 2019 .


In 2019 Yamaha came out with new nozzle designs to assist with reverse control and I believe they work fine in comparison to the previous 2 nozzle designs. I doubt most people fully understand reverse on jet boats..
SO lets look at a common prop boat of similar size. The transom is smooth and angled out at the top, some are also angled out in the center to allow the boat to move and turn easily and predictably when backing up.
A jet boat usually has a flat transom and some have a deck above the pumps.
The transom has the pumps protruding under the water line when the boat is off plane.
With Yamaha boats The pumps sit in a recess in the transom. One may actually think of those recesses as sea anchors when it comes to trying to back the boat as those add drag and require more reverse thrust to move the boat through the water backward as compared to the regular transom of a prop boat.
The angled transoms of a regular prop boat also lift the back of the boat when in reverse reducing the contact surfaces thus reducing the force needed to go backward.
On the Yamaha jet boats the angle of the reverse thrust on all the nozzles also helps to lift the transom when backing.
And the same angles also lift the transom and puts the bow down in the water when using reverse to stop, especially in an emergency stop.
I would believe that when Yamaha put the angles in the newest nozzle designs from 2019 they also had to calculate the necessary thrust downward and the new slight angle outward so the boat still lifts up in the back when reverse is applied.
So is it really a good idea to take about 1/2 of that calculated thrust Yamaha applied and shoot it out both sides of the nozzle laterally removing both the downward angle and the forward angle ???
And since equal and opposing forces cancel each other out I don't see the benefit of the setup on that aspect either hmmm . Hey it's your boat do whatever you like to it !!!
I made the fangs to increase the useable reverse thrust for backing off trailer, beaches and floating docks also for capturing and directing more of the reverse thrust to improve the steering response in reverse and improve the stopping power, then I added the longer mega fang plus for added power steering effect as well as quicker turning on plane ..

Thanks so much. Great explanation.
so, you do not like the lateral thrust from Will. Got it and that makes sense to me how you explained it. You feel the new new Yamaha nozzle is good as it is for lateral movement, than. Right?
If I start with the Ultimate AK19 deluxe, can I add fangs later on easily enough?

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I doubt it will do enough good to counter the loss of reverse, simply look at the size of the insert being placed in the original tube and it is obvious that close to 1/2 of the volume is being directed sideways then realize that the thrusts are close to opposing it just does not make sense to me but even though there is an easier way to redirect the water I have no interest in explaining it because it is not necessary the new nozzles work just fine and I believe in having real reverse for all the reasons I have mentioned previously.
So I don't recommend it but I see no reason you could not add them to the set of fins I make because I have cutouts on the leading edges already and I have adjustments on the fins to allow you to set the level in order to avoid any contact or obstruction with the reverse shoots on the new nozzles.