Thrust vectors and lateral thrusters

[Can0n11]

I think both products have there own unique performance properties and users look for and try to determine which product will fit their unique application. In my case, the dealer installed 36v Terrova (100pds+ 3 type 31 lead acid+250pds) install changed the Center of Gravity forward quite a bit which resulted in a sluggish bow moment (movement on the vertical axis/accel./decel.) by pushing the bow down and stern up which resulted in a "squirrely" feel. The LT 2.0 seems to provide a more solid feel that I am accustomed to with my previous transom experience boating being heavy flat bottomed river jet tillers and deep V prop tillers. I fish 400-800 hours a year and trailer each outing. What I notice is less stern wander now in neutral while waiting for a dock spot pulling out to make it more enjoyable for the launch Chit shows, and when using the jet wash. I have relocated a battery to offset the longitudinal tendency (roll left) from the excessive weight on the left side and to help the CG, and it seems to have dialed in pretty nicely for now. Dock approach and trailer loading with the TV and LT 2.0 are much more manageable with 12kt quartering tail winds again with my application. Admittedly so, I am new to jet boating with maybe 250 hours on the water with the FSH. Most of my time is from waypoint X to waypoint Y,Z, trolling at 3.8-4.1 for Muskie, aside from largely using the electric trolling motor, and the TV's work great for my type of control needs comparable to anti-servo or Tru-feel steering . I am not pulling tubes or wake boats so another application may work better if that were the case. I see it as a 75% like mentioned previously as when you turn the keel full left or right you get the stock 50% reverse thrust going thru the nozzle with the enhanced 25% direct lateral. Probably not quite that with efficiency losses but I haven't really thought that much about it. I do really appreciate what you and Will have done to make our watercraft much more enjoyable out on the water!

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Now imagine you could do an s turn without thrust or turn on a dime at w o t or hit waves and take them sideways, and what about backing the distance of 2 football fields against the current up stream. if the 4 mph or less threshold works for you just imagine what real full time steering would do to make you smile and yes I actually have a customer with a 19 foot Yamaha who is a member of the coast guard auxiliary who installed my super ultimate ak-19 deluxe to allow him to use the boat to tow in stranded boats. Here is a video , watch how close those markers are and at the end he was told to turn without thrust just a regular non keel 24 foot boat

here is a members video doing a high speed turn with an ak boat and my steering on it.

same boat doing an S turn without thrust.

 

[SunnyD]

... it is obvious that close to 1/2 of the volume is being directed sideways then realize that the thrusts are close to opposing.

This doesn't seem accurate. My understanding 9f the design is that is takes advantage of the new bucket design that favors the nozzel that's opposite the turn direction for thrust.
See pics. You'll see that there's a divider that drops down with the bucket and diverts flow to the opposing nozzel. This would mean only one LT nozzel would be getting the primary thrust when turned. Note, I do have some questions about what happens with no steering near a solid dock. Is there enough force coming through the nozzle to push off the dock since now left and right forces would not be equal.
I'm a fan of your product. I will be switching my TVs out at some point for them since they seem to provide significantly more benefit, but the LTs seem to complement what you have. I understand it's part of business to point out flaws in competing products, but you'd be better just highlighting that your products provide different benefits at different price points.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I believe time will tell I am already hearing that the reverse thrust is LATHARGIC and yes the baffle does improve the working of the new 2019 nozzles from Yamaha but they do not use 90 degrees either.
I tell people if you have duel throttles you simply learn how to work those and you get the full force of both and no need to spend any money.
It is quite obvious , but as I said time will tell if I am correct remember I do steering and have been for 20 years it's what I do.
Also MY systems will provide steering control in a turn without any thrust even when the boat is traveling off plane. Try doing that and the high speed steering with your thrust vectors on your boat like the S turn or the turn at the end of the slalom course in the videos

 

[SunnyD]

I believe time will tell I am already hearing that the reverse thrust is LATHARGIC and yes the baffle does improve the working of the new 2019 nozzles from Yamaha but they do not use 90 degrees either.
I tell people if you have duel throttles you simply learn how to work those and you get the full force of both and no need to spend any money.
It is quite obvious , but as I said time will tell if I am correct remember I do steering and have been for 20 years it's what I do.
Also MY systems will provide steering control in a turn without any thrust even when the boat is traveling off plane. Try doing that and the high speed steering with your thrust vectors on your boat like the S turn or the turn at the end of the slalom course in the videos

Yes. This is what I'm trying to determine. Is there and how much reverse control improvement is there and does it outweighs the negatives. Most people, me including, are willing to sacrifice some backup thrust for improved control.
What I yet to be able to determine is is the degree of both on a twin engine.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

So here is what you want to do look at your thrust vectors and see if the fins are blocking the water that exits the angled reverse shoots of the factory nozzle, if so cut the thrust vectors to allow for the water to exit properly as it was intended and then you will experience a big difference in reverse control. remember lateral thrust is NOT reverse thrust.

 

[SunnyD]

So here is what you want to do look at your thrust vectors and see if the fins are blocking the water that exits the angled reverse shoots of the factory nozzle, if so cut the thrust vectors to allow for the water to exit properly as it was intended and then you will experience a big difference in reverse control. remember lateral thrust is NOT reverse thrust.

Yes, absolutely, this will be the first thing I do. I'll then see if I feel like more improvement will be beneficial and outweighs the negatives.

 

[SunnyD]

In anticipation that there probably is benefit, would you or are you considering updating the cobras to not interfere with the LT2s. I would like to switch to the CJS. If I get the LT2s, this will be a barrier to switch.
You guys would make a great team if you could get along!

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I think you should do your research on that comment ! MY GOD just remember I am counting on you to provide feedback HONEST feedback . and research the thrust vector wake when you have a few minutes.

 

[Neutron]

I think you should do your research on that comment ! MY GOD just remember I am counting on you to provide feedback HONEST feedback . and research the thrust vector wake when you have a few minutes.

What ever happened to the Thrust vector wake? Was it a dud? Because it isn't listed on their site anymore

 

[drewkaree]

What ever happened to the Thrust vector wake? Was it a dud? Because it isn't listed on their site anymore

"lemme just douse this fire with some handy dandy gasoline here and..."

 

[Neutron]

I did some searching but didn't really get anything current. Was it squashed back in 2020

 

[TX_Mercenary]

I did some searching but didn't really get anything current. Was it squashed back in 2020

I believe it was a total failure.He beta tested his consumers with the epoxy stuff with the TVW. Thrust vectors interfere with wake surf by the way. Not Recommended for twin engines paired with wakebooster. Single engines are ok

 

[JetBoatPilot]

I’m interested on buying thrust vectors and lateral thrusters for a 2019 242 LSE. The question is which thrust vectors are best (x, xl, wake ) also, can it be combined with lateral thrusters.
I’m first time owner and never boat before

Sorry but I just saw this post. The best Thrust Vector option for your boat is the Thrust Vector L with new Lateral Enhanced fins. This setup allows you to add the new Lateral Thruster 2.0. We're hearing really strong positive feedback from customers. And while some believe that there's no need for these products on newer style Yamaha boats, our testing and early feedback tells us that there is a marked improvement over stock. Our reason for spending the time developing the product stems from constant requests from our customers. Who would not want better?

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Sorry but I just saw this post. The best Thrust Vector option for your boat is the Thrust Vector L with new Lateral Enhanced fins. This setup allows you to add the new Lateral Thruster 2.0. We're hearing really strong positive feedback from customers. And while some believe that there's no need for these products on newer style Yamaha boats, our testing and early feedback tells us that there is a marked improvement over stock. Our reason for spending the time developing the product stems from constant requests from our customers. Who would not want better?

This post was started by kathan back in December 2020 as for your question The reason I referred to the wakes is for the silent majority to see the same sort of posting raving about what I warned people would probably be the EDSEL of jet boat steering. Even the bolts were bending during use and the people complaining about their arms hurting after driving. To answer your question who would want better I would think the people who would want the most features and benefits from the person who blazed the trail of aftermarket jet boat steering But it's their boat they can do whatever suits their fancy , What is the saying a leopard does not change it's spots. But good luck with the new design .

 

[Wicked92]

some classless people up in this bitch thats all i got to say

 

[biffdotorg]

some classless people up in this bitch thats all i got to say

Respect for a competitor's achievements has always lead to better products for the consumer in every industry. We have seen great advancements from these two companies in the past 5 years alone. Competition has made the consumer the winner. Badmouthing a competitor's setbacks only pushes back momentum and any fence sitter that was considering those products.

If a businessman ever learns a rule, it's this one. Your customers should be sold on what benefits your product brings over your competition. If your products are equal, then the customer can decide based on other factors like service, support and the business ethics of the company. If you ever feel the need to badmouth your competitor, then you realize your products are on par, and the customer should go buy from that competitor based on ethics alone.

 

[SunnyD]

Respect for a competitor's achievements has always lead to better products for the consumer in every industry. We have seen great advancements from these two companies in the past 5 years alone. Competition has made the consumer the winner. Badmouthing a competitor's setbacks only pushes back momentum and any fence sitter that was considering those products.

If a businessman ever learns a rule, it's this one. Your customers should be sold on what benefits your product brings over your competition. If your products are equal, then the customer can decide based on other factors like service, support and the business ethics of the company. If you ever feel the need to badmouth your competitor, then you realize your products are on par, and the customer should go buy from that competitor based on ethics alone.

I tend to agree that competitors should let the consumers and their products do the talking for them, I'm not sure about the conclusion you're drawing though.

That being said, how do you feel about this statement...

"I'm going to destroy Android, because it's a stolen product." - Steve Jobs

 

[biffdotorg]

I tend to agree that competitors should let the consumers and their products do the talking for them, I'm not sure about the conclusion you're drawing though.

That being said, how do you feel about this statement...

"I'm going to destroy Android, because it's a stolen product." - Steve Jobs

That's a good example. And as much as I like apple products, Steve Jobs was not very well loved by his partners and competitors. He was a very shrewd businessman who was hated by many people, but just not as many as there were fans of apple products. I do believe apple was fortunate enough to have products folks wanted more than anything. And the best marketing on the planet has brought those products to light, and overshadowed the horrible things Steve may have done to get there. (the documentaries are endless, who knows what's true anymore)

And honestly if this were as true of a statement as Steve had said, he had the resources to sue, which is what should have happened if that were the case. I can't say that I have ever heard what settlements, if any, ever came of it. But a media blitz making claims, you would think, would hinder apple more than help. Although, in that level of business, they consider any attention good attention.

I don't agree that is a fair statement for small businesses that live by word of mouth advertising. Especially when most owners love both products and will share their thoughts, while folks considering the product hear both stories but only one talking bad about the other. That sits bad with most potential customers.

The products we are talking about above live and breathe by consumer testimony and neither is inferior to the other, they just have different benefits to different users. But do satisfy the common needs on the most basic level. So when one sits back and talks about the benefits above the basics, and the other just badmouths the other, which one do you suppose a new buyer will shy away from just from an ethical standpoint?

I've said it before, I've owned both, and may own both again the future. But if there is an actual legal claim over patent infringement, don't you suppose that would be left up to a judge and not spouted about in a public forum. None of us can help with that, I'm not a lawyer.

And some products are stolen from others. Some get caught and pay large fines, fees or royalties for what they have done, or what they will continue to do going forward. Which may be make a better version of the original. You know there is more than one MFG of most products and somewhere, someone paid for royalties or infringement somewhere. (other than the chinese these days, wow) If there is a legal claim, go get it, or move on.

If Steve were alive today, it would be great to hear who he stole the GUI and mouse idea from. I think a few very large players wish they had had the resources at the time to collect a little bit of that!

 

[SunnyD]

That's a good example. And as much as I like apple products, Steve Jobs was not very well loved by his partners and competitors. He was a very shrewd businessman who was hated by many people, but just not as many as there were fans of apple products. I do believe apple was fortunate enough to have products folks wanted more than anything. And the best marketing on the planet has brought those products to light, and overshadowed the horrible things Steve may have done to get there. (the documentaries are endless, who knows what's true anymore)

And honestly if this were as true of a statement as Steve had said, he had the resources to sue, which is what should have happened if that were the case. I can't say that I have ever heard what settlements, if any, ever came of it. But a media blitz making claims, you would think, would hinder apple more than help. Although, in that level of business, they consider any attention good attention.

I don't agree that is a fair statement for small businesses that live by word of mouth advertising. Especially when most owners love both products and will share their thoughts, while folks considering the product hear both stories but only one talking bad about the other. That sits bad with most potential customers.

The products we are talking about above live and breathe by consumer testimony and neither is inferior to the other, they just have different benefits to different users. But do satisfy the common needs on the most basic level. So when one sits back and talks about the benefits above the basics, and the other just badmouths the other, which one do you suppose a new buyer will shy away from just from an ethical standpoint?

I've said it before, I've owned both, and may own both again the future. But if there is an actual legal claim over patent infringement, don't you suppose that would be left up to a judge and not spouted about in a public forum. None of us can help with that, I'm not a lawyer.

And some products are stolen from others. Some get caught and pay large fines, fees or royalties for what they have done, or what they will continue to do going forward. Which may be make a better version of the original. You know there is more than one MFG of most products and somewhere, someone paid for royalties or infringement somewhere. (other than the chinese these days, wow) If there is a legal claim, go get it, or move on.

If Steve were alive today, it would be great to hear who he stole the GUI and mouse idea from. I think a few very large players wish they had had the resources at the time to collect a little bit of that!

I agree with pretty much everything you've said. One thing to keep in mind though is that for a small business, I can be very expensive to get a patent, and even more to defend one.
I don't think small businesses should be taking shots at one another. It absolutely does not help their cause to do so. But, I also understand how emotionally tied to their products they are and in the end these are just people like you and me.