Towing with Tesla Model X

[Liveto99]

2001 Duramax Diesel first year out 26 times back to the dealer. Never would I buy a first year Hummer electric. The gas ones were not reliable anyway.

 

[adrianp89]

I think battery swap is a horrible idea, let alone not even feasible. Fast charging is coming quick. Give that every gas station had a supercharger variant, lines wouldn’t be a big deal, as people only need to top off on long trips. If they can get to full charge in ten minutes, that really changes everything. They aren’t that far off, and probably can do it now just not as safe as they want for battery life. People at WaWa pump their gas then go in and get a sandwich made, grab a drink and come back. That is an easy ten-fifteen minutes that their car takes up a spot, same idea here.

 

[Liveto99]

Tesla was looking into battery swap for long trips and you get yours on the way back.

 

[J-RAD]

BUT how many of those trips to the gas station would be eliminated if those cars fueled themselves up overnight while it sat in the garage. What distance does the average person drive in a day, 40 miles? The range of these vessels are way past that, so there's no need for most to even go to a remote charging station.

 

[Murf'n'surf]

Maybe I am overthinking this but........ fast forward 15 years and you have 100's of thousands of EV's needing to be charged. How does our electrical grid in this country keep up? Aren't we already 30 years behind in the grid status? How do you Kalifornians charge your cars when they have rolling blackouts?

 

[AncientCanoe]

Until there's a battery swap system or 10min-til-full charging, there won't be any mass adaptation. Go sit at a local gas station and count the cars that show up for a half hour. The imagine all those cars needing to sit for 30-60 minutes. Also, yes there's electricity at these gas stations, but I would suspect that they don't have the connection to support 15 240v+ stations.

NIO, a chinese EV company, came up with a hot-swap battery system where it's like going through a car wash cycle. That's probably the best solution, however then you have the issue of relying on robotics and storing/charging hundreds of fuel cell packages.

Unless that local gas station happens to be on an interstate the people filling up there likely aren't there because they used a full tank of gas driving that day. Yes charging networks are needed, but the masses don't need to travel 300+ miles a day.

 

[J-RAD]

Maybe I am overthinking this but........ fast forward 15 years and you have 100's of thousands of EV's needing to be charged. How does our electrical grid in this country keep up? Aren't we already 30 years behind in the grid status? How do you Kalifornians charge your cars when they have rolling blackouts?

A lot of solar panels, in home battery storage, and inverters.

 

[Liveto99]

At some point everyone will wise up again and go back to nuclear power

 

[thefortunes]

Maybe I am overthinking this but........ fast forward 15 years and you have 100's of thousands of EV's needing to be charged. How does our electrical grid in this country keep up? Aren't we already 30 years behind in the grid status? How do you Kalifornians charge your cars when they have rolling blackouts?

The grid will definitely need upgrading (this is from my daughter, who is working on her PhD in energy economics). I can get you details if you would like.

Your other assumptions above are, unfortunately, mistakes that are common:
1) There are already over 1 million EVs on the road in the US. See here. Tesla alone plans to sell 500k next year.
2) Californians charge the same way that they gas up during rolling blackouts - when the power is on (gas stations don't pump during blackouts either). Most people only need to charge every 3-4 days (or gas up once a week), but if you need to more often and the power is off at home you just drive a little bit and a supercharger is available.

 

[thefortunes]

We have "1000" free miles. What that equates to - I have no idea.

They give you 400 kWh. Tesla has been generous and uses 400 Wh/mi in their calculation of how much energy to provide for 1000 miles, when typical usage is closer to 300 Wh/mi.

(For reference, our lifetime usage is 242 Wh/mi for the Roadster, 324 Wh/mi for the S and 300 Wh/mi for the 3)

 

[thefortunes]

Tesla was looking into battery swap for long trips and you get yours on the way back.

They did that in order to earn carbon credits, nothing more.

Latest S now has 400 miles of (EPA rated) range.

 

[2kwik4u]

2001 Duramax Diesel first year out 26 times back to the dealer. Never would I buy a first year Hummer electric. The gas ones were not reliable anyway.

That was damn near two decades ago. I would lay money you wouldn't have the same experience today.

 

[2kwik4u]

BUT how many of those trips to the gas station would be eliminated if those cars fueled themselves up overnight while it sat in the garage. What distance does the average person drive in a day, 40 miles? The range of these vessels are way past that, so there's no need for most to even go to a remote charging station.

My daily usage during the week is closing in on 75miles. Did 130 the other night between commuting and running errands. I live on the outskirts of a major metro area, so this is partially my doing. Home charging with a 175-200mi range would cover MOST of my days.

Weekend days are much worse. In the summer, I might have a Friday with 75mi of commute, then another 40mi of towing. Arriving home late, then leaving early for the lake (10hrs charging). Towing to lake and back can hit 200mi day no problem. That's with 4k lb trailer. Usually have to fill up on Saturday if we plan to boat on Sunday as well. Good opportunity to get ice though.

Overall, if an EV can get me 200miles of LOADED range, I'm in. I'll rent a Suburban for the 3 times a year I need to tow further/longer/vacation. Lots of potential ahead. I'm not due for a new truck for another 7-8 yrs. Hoping they'll have 2500 class capacity AND range by then.

 

[thefortunes]

My daily usage during the week is closing in on 75miles. Did 130 the other night between commuting and running errands. I live on the outskirts of a major metro area, so this is partially my doing. Home charging with a 175-200mi range would cover MOST of my days.

Weekend days are much worse. In the summer, I might have a Friday with 75mi of commute, then another 40mi of towing. Arriving home late, then leaving early for the lake (10hrs charging). Towing to lake and back can hit 200mi day no problem. That's with 4k lb trailer. Usually have to fill up on Saturday if we plan to boat on Sunday as well. Good opportunity to get ice though.

Overall, if an EV can get me 200miles of LOADED range, I'm in. I'll rent a Suburban for the 3 times a year I need to tow further/longer/vacation. Lots of potential ahead. I'm not due for a new truck for another 7-8 yrs. Hoping they'll have 2500 class capacity AND range by then.

Rumor Mill: Upcoming 500-Mile Range For Tesla Model S, 400 For Model X - Tesla Motors Club

500 miles seems impossible, but that’s what a new rumor suggests. Reportedly, someone who works for Tesla apprised Twitter user Zack (@BLKMDL3) that a 120-kWh battery pack is coming this summer, which could give the Tesla Model S a 500-mile range and the Model X 400 miles. Let’s keep in mind...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[2kwik4u]

Rumor Mill: Upcoming 500-Mile Range For Tesla Model S, 400 For Model X - Tesla Motors Club

500 miles seems impossible, but that’s what a new rumor suggests. Reportedly, someone who works for Tesla apprised Twitter user Zack (@BLKMDL3) that a 120-kWh battery pack is coming this summer, which could give the Tesla Model S a 500-mile range and the Model X 400 miles. Let’s keep in mind...

teslamotorsclub.com

Not sure that a 20% increase in capacity will get me to 200mi of towing, but it's clearly not far away.

500mi with just the family would cover all but one trip a year for me on a single charge.

 

[Liveto99]

That was damn near two decades ago. I would lay money you wouldn't have the same experience today.

My buddie had a 2003 same truck with over 250k no problems at all go figure

 

[2kwik4u]

My buddie had a 2003 same truck with over 250k no problems at all go figure

Yea, you'll get a bad apple from time to time. Just the law of averages happening there. Figure if 1% of trucks have a serious problem (which is closer to like 3-5% I would wager), and total sales are 750,000 trucks.....That's 750 trucks sold that are complete garbage. Sounds like you were one of the unlucky ones in that lottery. Anything mass produced will have some level of quality fall out, far too many variables to drive those percentages much lower.

I tend to be pretty brand agnostic on new products. Once I've used a particular manufacturer a few times with good success, then I develop some loyalty, and try to be as objective as I can about it. This is my 3rd GMC, and my 11th GM. Only had one that was a real problem, and I don't think it was GM's fault as it had been gone through by a less than stellar mechanic. If this GMC/Hummer EV looks decent and has decent specs, it'll get first right of refusal from me based on that history with GM.

 

[GTBRMC]

The grid will definitely need upgrading (this is from my daughter, who is working on her PhD in energy economics). I can get you details if you would like.

Your other assumptions above are, unfortunately, mistakes that are common:
1) There are already over 1 million EVs on the road in the US. See here. Tesla alone plans to sell 500k next year.

There are about 275 million vehicles in the US.
Source: U.S. - number of vehicles in operation | Statista

1/275 = 0.0036 which is less than 1/2%. US transportation infrastructure of all types has far in excess of 1/2% excess capacity (excluding some local bottlenecks). He was not making a "mistaken assumption" implying that infrastructure for the EV vehicle population envisioned in the near future will be problematic.

 

[Tyguy]

I’ve taken the Tesla on two road trips in the last year including 2,000 miles through the Midwest and then another one with 1,500 miles around the West. Super easy in my opinion. With the V2 and now the V3 Tesla chargers there’s not enough time to eat a meal, so either we have to charge past the recommended mark to finish what we’re doing during the stop, or one of us has to move the car to a regular parking spot.

We didn’t eat at every charge stop, though, so for the others we took a restroom break and usually a short walk to explore and/or stretch our legs. We all commented how much more enjoyable the trips were. I’m usually a hard charger on road trips focused on getting there in the least time with as few stops as possible, but with the Tesla my mission changed and I found myself much happier. Family, too.

I used to be a proponent of battery swaps with the concept that you don’t actually buy the battery. My proposal would have been to sell EVs without batteries, and then buyers sign up with companies who own the batteries and provide swaps. There would be a lease fee along with swap fees. The company guarantees a certain battery capacity and owns the maintenance and replacements of degraded batteries. The challenge would have been getting the EV OEMs to agree on a battery standard....good luck with that.

After living with a Tesla I just don’t think battery swaps are a strong need anymore. Fast charging and long battery life has shown me it’s unnecessary for most average drivers.

 

[thefortunes]

There are about 275 million vehicles in the US.
Source: U.S. - number of vehicles in operation | Statista

1/275 = 0.0036 which is less than 1/2%. US transportation infrastructure of all types has far in excess of 1/2% excess capacity (excluding some local bottlenecks). He was not making a "mistaken assumption" implying that infrastructure for the EV vehicle population envisioned in the near future will be problematic.

He said "in 15 years there will be 100s of thousands of EVs needing to charge."

I pointed out there are already over 1 million in the US alone.

Neither of us said anything about percent of total vehicles, and I agreed that infrastructure will need updating.