Water entering through clean out

[swatski]

That would be extremely abnormal and would likely lead to a major failure when the plug blows out.

@Grover70 I have to give credit to @Bruce here as he usually knows what he is talking about!
I may need to revisit my assumptions, I could be wrong about the blow by (or whatever you want to call it). I could swear that I have had it happen (water over the plug) with perfectly set plugs and taking no water over the swim deck, but that could be just one of those things - where I just had it wrong in my head. Wouldn't be the first time, Lol.

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[Grover70]

@Grover70 I have to give credit to @Bruce here as he usually knows what he is talking about!
I may need to revisit my assumptions, I could be wrong about the blow by (or whatever you want to call it). I could swear that I have had it happen (water over the plug) with perfectly set plugs and taking no water over the swim deck, but that could be just one of those things - where I just had it wrong in my head. Wouldn't be the first time, Lol.

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You know, I just watched this video on YouTube. Sure looks like a lot of water he's playing in with his clean out plug...

 

[swatski]

@Grover70 Also, check out post #27 in this thread, and a pic by @Britboater
https://jetboaters.net/threads/anchor-locker-leaks-in-models-with-current-hull.12266/page-2#post-212982

 

[Grover70]

@Grover70 Also, check out post #27 in this thread, and a pic by @Britboater
https://jetboaters.net/threads/anchor-locker-leaks-in-models-with-current-hull.12266/page-2#post-212982

That's very interesting. Good research! Thank you. Some of the terminology I don't quite understand yet in regards to the specific parts but I'll figure it out. Still think a call to Yamaha is in order and a little more visualization of the clean out tubes myself now.

 

[Grover70]

I'm learning more as I go which I could not do elsewhere other than JetBoaters.net. Thanks!

So, I looked. The clean out tube is sealed and has the clamps installed. Additionally, the tray does appear to have sealant. I noticed the drain tube from wet storage is intact and also clamped. I thought it drained into the bilge but it looks like it has it's own drain, which would be smart.

Both bilge drain plugs drained water for about a minute but now I'm looking and wondering where the heck this water came from if everything looks right? Could it be the factory through hull transducer? The one that gives you your speed and distance travelled?

 

[Bruce]

Leaks around factory components are not uncommon. If the tray that covers the cleanout port does not have sealant then water will leak around it.

A good way to check for leaks is to fill the bilge with a water hose and see where water comes out. This is best done with the boat on a slope. You do not want to add enough water to get it into the engine.

 

[WickedPorter]

Mine blow a little water past, have since day one. All day on the lake cruising around, the port cleanout tube is typically full almost to the top. I know it's blowing water by because I can see drips of water on the bottom of the hatch right above each port. It's never been high enough to leak in to the boat... I pull the plugs after each outing and drain the water out. Never been a big issue.

 

[jdonalds]

@Grover70 I have to give credit to @Bruce here as he usually knows what he is talking about!
I may need to revisit my assumptions, I could be wrong about the blow by (or whatever you want to call it). I could swear that I have had it happen (water over the plug) with perfectly set plugs and taking no water over the swim deck, but that could be just one of those things - where I just had it wrong in my head. Wouldn't be the first time, Lol.

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I'm with you. I have proven to myself that the tubes on my boat are not filling with water coming over the swim deck. Of course that would certainly add to it but I've paid attention, and observed the swim platform for being wet, and even watched as I slowed. I've done it with only myself on board so not even towing a tube. Several times I tested this theory and the tubes will fill without water coming over the deck.

I hope someone does put a GoPro to the test. Not to show that water does sometimes come up over the swim deck, but to show there can be water in the tubes without water over the swim deck.

This is a years old topic.

 

[Britboater]

My port clean out plug is always full of water but my starboard is completely dry, leading to the assumption that clean out plugs can "bleed" water. I take this as totally normal, just think about the extreme pressure thats on the seals, under no way can a rubber seal of the kind fitted completely keep water from passing.

A little contradictory to @Bruce but I wouldn't think water from the rear wash would fill the tray, my clean out access tray has a seal around and being only water occasionally washing over, my assumption is water wouldn't really enter from here in great quantities. Plus the tray has a drain, doesn't it?

 

[swatski]

Plus the tray has a drain, doesn't it?

Yes it does, and (in theory) it drains under the swim platform via a hose and a thru hull fitting. That thru hull fitting was completely loose and leaked in my boat (and it had badly applied sealant - if you can imagine that ).

The drain hose on the other hand was kinked up and was not draining water (from top of the cleanout tray/lid). I had to shorten it, and am installing a valve (as I am rigging the boat for wake surfing and will really be pushing the platform down, at low speeds, the valve should help).

I believe the only Yamaha JB on the planet that does not leak is @MrMoose's. Apparently, he uses some kind of a force field to keep the water away from the bilge.

Other than that, I'm gonna leave it at: "they all leak" (a famous Yamaha dealer advice).

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[Britboater]

On a similar note, after I noticed the appalling oversight from @Yamaha not sealing the inner plastic tray, I never had much water if any when I opened my hull bung, to the extent I'd never undo it but lately I'm slowly getting more, very strange.
I just think the fibreglass Yamaha use is so thin its porous .

 

[Grover70]

My port clean out plug is always full of water but my starboard is completely dry, leading to the assumption that clean out plugs can "bleed" water. I take this as totally normal, just think about the extreme pressure thats on the seals, under no way can a rubber seal of the kind fitted completely keep water from passing.

A little contradictory to @Bruce but I wouldn't think water from the rear wash would fill the tray, my clean out access tray has a seal around and being only water occasionally washing over, my assumption is water wouldn't really enter from here in great quantities. Plus the tray has a drain, doesn't it?

So...I put the GoPro under the tray and voila! Water galore...
No water leaked from the clean out. Solid.
Poured water over the tray and it might was well have not even been there.

First pic...no water but the clean out was full.


Poured water on the tray...tons came through. Now we know where the water is getting into the bilge. And it's a lot.

 

[Grover70]

Lifted up the tray...negligible silicone if any at all. None around the screws where I saw leakage on camera. I fixed that. Too bad they miss the small stuff. It makes a big difference.

 

[Britboater]

Quality control strikes again .

Well done @Grover70 and thanks for posting the results, I've always hated that plastic cover, it just seems so inadequate with just placing the lid to seal, the round, turn style I had on my 190 are much more secure.

 

[Grover70]

Quality control strikes again .

Well done @Grover70 and thanks for posting the results, I've always hated that plastic cover, it just seems so inadequate with just placing the lid to seal, the round, turn style I had on my 190 are much more secure.

Thn

Quality control strikes again .

Well done @Grover70 and thanks for posting the results, I've always hated that plastic cover, it just seems so inadequate with just placing the lid to seal, the round, turn style I had on my 190 are much more secure.

Thank you! I finished the project today:

I siliconed the screw holes and the edges of the tray frame. Poured the water and noticed there was still a leak where the factory "silicone" of the tray met the frame -


Then I decided to silicone the underside of where the tray met the the frame...around the factory sealant. And as a last measure. I added rubber 5/16" marine grade rubber around the perimeter of the clean out tray. The results were better than I expected. Not a drop went through the frame compared to the waterfall I had prior to doing anything. Based on what I saw before, there had to be a few gallons making it in there over the two hours I was out.




PROJECT COMPLETE!!

 

[Britboater]

Result and yet another job a Yamaha boat owner has to complete for the factory!!!

 

[Grover70]

Result and yet another job a Yamaha boat owner has to complete for the factory!!!

Aint it a darn shame?
Maybe Jetboaters ought to start our own jet boat company. We seem to have pretty good experience in what not to do.

 

[Grover70]

Spoke with the Yamaha mechanic and he said...wait for it....
It's normal for water to pass by the new '17 twist and lock clean out plugs. The design does not lock it in as tightly as the previous version due to the nature of the locking mechanism. In order to reduce the amount of seepage around the seal, marine grease should reduce but not eliminate the water.
Interesting!
Make sure your wet locker is sealed up good and well (see my old post) with silicone or your likely to have a lot of water spilling into your bilge.

 

[JDinfla]

Sad to hear. Somehow I thought the 2017 fish would be tweaked for the better.

 

[swatski]

Spoke with the Yamaha mechanic and he said...wait for it....
It's normal for water to pass by the new '17 twist and lock clean out plugs. The design does not lock it in as tightly as the previous version due to the nature of the locking mechanism. In order to reduce the amount of seepage around the seal, marine grease should reduce but not eliminate the water.
Interesting!
Make sure your wet locker is sealed up good and well (see my old post) with silicone or your likely to have a lot of water spilling into your bilge.

I knew it the moment I saw that new design. I could tell this is a bad idea/design, and a big step backwards from the latest iteration of the old plugs. Not perfect by any means but tried and true for sure, and with minimal maintenance and equipped with @Cobra Jet Steering LLC EZ locks - pretty near damn perfect.

I was playing with those new ones at one recent boat show, got one in (albeit I did not like the feel of it) but I could not install the other one of those new plugs in - to save my life - it was weird. The salesman rushed to show me how it's done... Guess what happened next? He could not get that darned thing in, either. IDK...

Why couldn't Yamaha keep the old (2nd or 3rd generation - whatever it was) design and just buy EZ Locks from Jeff Cobra? What would be the problem with that? It's just money, it would be a very smart acquisition.

It really seems like they are getting some bad advice, IMO, like they just don't know there to look or who to talk to. They have been ahead of the game with basically a home field advantage in this field (jet propelled sport boats) but it's not going to last forever. If I was advising them, I would suggest hiring few field-bound application engineers who's main job would be to aggressively pursue feedback from users who beat the shit out of their product, and who actually know something.
As an aside, that's how successful companies survive nowadays in a hyper competitive field of medical diagnostics - just to give an example (and I'm somewhat familiar with that field, lol).

Rant over and out.

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