Weird starting issues, SX210

[FSH 210 Sport]

My service manual does not list a stator. I assume the "Generator" is what they are calling it. Maybe I have the wrong manual? Trying to find the diagnostic parameters for it.
I attached a picture of my service manual. Maybe I have the wrong one?

Generator is what the stator can be called. Generator is sometimes used to describe the unit as a whole, Stator is the winding portion of the generator which remains stationary.

If that manual is organized the same way mine is, the test procedures will be in section 7 / electrical system.

 

[girthquake]

Update:
Saturday morning. I swapped injectors from Port to Starboard.
Took the boat out on Saturday afternoon. Started up great. Ran the boat for 20 minutes straight cruising at 6500 RPMS. Ran like a dream. Stopped and turned off engines. Waited 1 minute. Both started right up. Ran again for another 5 minutes then shut down for a planned 15-20 minute break.
After break, same issue. Port engine did not start. Tried 2 more times. I then immediately changed the spark plugs on the port engine to new plugs to see if they were wet. They did not smell like fuel or seem wet. Engine still did not start.
I tried the Cobra Jet throttle back and forth. Still no start.
After another few tries it did the same trying to start sputter, like an old carb boat, then started. Ran rough for 5-10 seconds, then perfectly fine. Did some kneeboarding with the kids, tooled around for a while, then started testing. 1 minute off, started up. 2 minutes off, started right up. 5 minutes off, started up. 10 minutes off.....Did not want to start...took 4 tries to restart.
Could it be stator? Possibly. Still could not figure out how to test it and my book actually does not show how.
It just seems so odd to me.
Perhaps it is an electronic fuel issue? Maybe I will swap throttle bodies and throttle positioning sensors just for fun??
Thanks!

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Update:
Saturday morning. I swapped injectors from Port to Starboard.
Took the boat out on Saturday afternoon. Started up great. Ran the boat for 20 minutes straight cruising at 6500 RPMS. Ran like a dream. Stopped and turned off engines. Waited 1 minute. Both started right up. Ran again for another 5 minutes then shut down for a planned 15-20 minute break.
After break, same issue. Port engine did not start. Tried 2 more times. I then immediately changed the spark plugs on the port engine to new plugs to see if they were wet. They did not smell like fuel or seem wet. Engine still did not start.
I tried the Cobra Jet throttle back and forth. Still no start.
After another few tries it did the same trying to start sputter, like an old carb boat, then started. Ran rough for 5-10 seconds, then perfectly fine. Did some kneeboarding with the kids, tooled around for a while, then started testing. 1 minute off, started up. 2 minutes off, started right up. 5 minutes off, started up. 10 minutes off.....Did not want to start...took 4 tries to restart.
Could it be stator? Possibly. Still could not figure out how to test it and my book actually does not show how.
It just seems so odd to me.
Perhaps it is an electronic fuel issue? Maybe I will swap throttle bodies and throttle positioning sensors just for fun??
Thanks!

Right on... you’ve eliminated some more items!!! As Tennessee Tuxedo would say; “it’s time to go see Mr. Whoppee“. In this case Mr. Whoppee is the dealer and have them check the stators.. To me it sounds like a an electronic thermal issue... fine while the boat is under way, but 10 mins of heat soak and there is an issue. Classic intermittent stator winding separation. Some times it can just be a case of the stator wiring connections on the stator bus. I had this happen on a dirt bike stator where in there was a cold solder joint for the lighting winding.

 

[itsdgm]

Update:
Saturday morning. I swapped injectors from Port to Starboard.
Took the boat out on Saturday afternoon. Started up great. Ran the boat for 20 minutes straight cruising at 6500 RPMS. Ran like a dream. Stopped and turned off engines. Waited 1 minute. Both started right up. Ran again for another 5 minutes then shut down for a planned 15-20 minute break.
After break, same issue. Port engine did not start. Tried 2 more times. I then immediately changed the spark plugs on the port engine to new plugs to see if they were wet. They did not smell like fuel or seem wet. Engine still did not start.
I tried the Cobra Jet throttle back and forth. Still no start.
After another few tries it did the same trying to start sputter, like an old carb boat, then started. Ran rough for 5-10 seconds, then perfectly fine. Did some kneeboarding with the kids, tooled around for a while, then started testing. 1 minute off, started up. 2 minutes off, started right up. 5 minutes off, started up. 10 minutes off.....Did not want to start...took 4 tries to restart.
Could it be stator? Possibly. Still could not figure out how to test it and my book actually does not show how.
It just seems so odd to me.
Perhaps it is an electronic fuel issue? Maybe I will swap throttle bodies and throttle positioning sensors just for fun??
Thanks!

I think we live pretty close to each other. i have YDS, let me know if you want to meet or talk in person about your issue.

 

[girthquake]

Thanks!
I do have YDS. Unfortunately, it did not tell me anything. I can do a couple more swaps just to rule out a couple more items. Otherwise, I have to just get in there and pull the stator.
I do not know of any reputable service locations out here to have them diagnose the stator.
I will keep on searching for the gremlin!
-Josh

 

[buckbuck]

@girthquake Post your yds findings. Someone may see something that will help.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Thanks!
I do have YDS. Unfortunately, it did not tell me anything. I can do a couple more swaps just to rule out a couple more items. Otherwise, I have to just get in there and pull the stator.
I do not know of any reputable service locations out here to have them diagnose the stator.
I will keep on searching for the gremlin!
-Josh

If you can get on the stator leads with an ohm meter you will be abler to compare the ohm readings between the two motors at the very least to see if there is a difference between the motor that always starts and the one that is giving you trouble. Then at least you will have a better idea as to whether or not you need to pull a stator.

 

[itsdgm]

Thanks!
I do have YDS. Unfortunately, it did not tell me anything. I can do a couple more swaps just to rule out a couple more items. Otherwise, I have to just get in there and pull the stator.
I do not know of any reputable service locations out here to have them diagnose the stator.
I will keep on searching for the gremlin!
-Josh

Sounds like you have a handle on it. Let me know if you need any tools. I also have a spare engine sitting in a crate in my garage if you need to look at or test it To compare [HASH=536]#’s[/HASH].

 

[girthquake]

Update: Pulled the motor on Friday and installed a new stator. Just because.
Took the boat out yesterday for a test run and same issue is still there. Really scratching my head now. Definitely has to be some sort of electrical gremlin or ECU problem.
I am tempted now to switch all electrical over from port to starboard. Does anyone think there would be an issue with that?

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I would not think it would be a problem as the motors are the same.

 

[itsdgm]

I haven’t read every post on this topic. But have you swapped the electrical connections for the clean out switches, ignition switches and lanyard switch yet to rule them out?

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I haven’t read every post on this topic. But have you swapped the electrical connections for the clean out switches, ignition switches and lanyard switch yet to rule them out?

Yes he did on January 13th...


So he has replaced the stator now and that was not the issue. How about swapping the electric throttle valve from one engine to another? I would think that unit plays a role in how the engine runs. As well, the throttle position sensor.

It would appear that the problem could be electrical. When the engine is hot, and you stop the engine bay gets heat soaked and whatever electrical component is causing the issue fails when it gets hot. would be interesting to see if when you stopped after a long run and you opened the engine bay and see what effect that had, not a solution but you’d find out if it was heat related.

 

[girthquake]

Thanks Everyone. I am out of town this weekend so I will get back on it next weekend.
Even though I have tested all those switches, I still plan to swap almost anything I can to find the gremlin.
Hopefully I can cause it migrate to the starboard, then I just have to backtrack. This is getting old and frustrating and I know dropping it off at the dealership is going to be waste since they would have to recreate the issue in the water.
This issue does not happen on the trailer running on hoses. I assume its because I do not get the engine warm enough to cause the issue, but who knows. I have run it for a while, especially when changing the oil.

 

[itsdgm]

Yes he did on January 13th...


So he has replaced the stator now and that was not the issue. How about swapping the electric throttle valve from one engine to another? I would think that unit plays a role in how the engine runs. As well, the throttle position sensor.

It would appear that the problem could be electrical. When the engine is hot, and you stop the engine bay gets heat soaked and whatever electrical component is causing the issue fails when it gets hot. would be interesting to see if when you stopped after a long run and you opened the engine bay and see what effect that had, not a solution but you’d find out if it was heat related.

I’m not reading his post that way. One post he stated that he tested the switches (iwith boat on the trailer) and was looking for specs, next post he ran the boat and had the same issue. What I’m wondering is if he actually swapped all of the switches. That’s would be the only way to see if they’re causing a intermittent issue out on the water.
Anyway, hope it all gets figured out soon.

 

[girthquake]

Sorry for the delay in responding. Its been a busy month. Finally did some swaps on just about everything I could. Took the boat out yesterday for a quick test but it was very windy with a big swell. We first did an idle test through the harbor and shut it down for 10 minutes. Started just fine on both engines. Then we braved the open water and ran the boat at 6500 rpm for about 15 minutes but it was too rough. Brought it back and shut it down for 10 minutes and again it started just fine. I am not sure if we were able to get the boat hot enough or run it enough to truly test it but it did okay. I will report back after a more official test.

 

[girthquake]

UPDATE: Ran the boat this weekend and port engine fully died. Will not even turn over. I don't believe that it is seized but starter will not even turn now. Definitely a gremlin. Probably going to have to unload this beautiful barge. Such a bummer. Is it possible for the timing to come undone and ruin the engine while it is running? Very strange and as you all know, frustrating.

 

[itsdgm]

UPDATE: Ran the boat this weekend and port engine fully died. Will not even turn over. I don't believe that it is seized but starter will not even turn now. Definitely a gremlin. Probably going to have to unload this beautiful barge. Such a bummer. Is it possible for the timing to come undone and ruin the engine while it is running? Very strange and as you all know, frustrating.

Hey, I just saw your update. I see that you’re releatively close to me. I’m in Rancho Santa Margarita. Let me know if you want to talk on the phone or come over to my house and try to diagnose it. I’ve got the YDS, and everything necessary to pull the motor too. i might also be interested in buying the boat if you’re looking to unload it. Just PM me and let’s talk.

 

[itsdgm]

Out of curiosity. Did you ever try swapping:

1. ECU’s?
2. Ignition switches?

 

[girthquake]

Thanks Dennis for the offer, I may have to hit you up soon!
I did not swap ECU's. That was going to be my last resort. I actually am meeting with a friend of ours that used to work for YAmaha and now is on his own. That is tomorrow. I will update with any news if he is able to help.

 

[itsdgm]

If it’s the same problem that you’re dealing with. It’ll be easier to diagnose now that it’s not intermittent.