Winterization debates

[ncnmra]

Ok, so my question still remains what will fogging to do to prevent this?

I think they are separate issues. Nobody is saying that fogging will prevent moisture incursion through engine oil. However, we are suggesting that running the engine briefly WILL. When you fog, you're coating the internals with the oil. Why burn off the fogging oil and introduce engine oil which may have condensation in it by running the engine briefly? Similarly, what is there to gain to run the engine very briefly in the winter? I see @Cobra Jet Steering LLC 's point about cycling the valve springs, but I would surmise that turning the engine over (not actually starting it) would be enough, and better for the engine than starting it for any period less than 10-20 minutes. I would also suggest that repeated cold starts (especially in very cold climates) aren't doing your engines any long term favors (oil viscosity, etc).

Of course these are likely minor details and ultimately each one of us needs to do what they feel comfortable with....again; its why I asked because I see a lot of point of debate on every forum regarding these issues...enough to give me a headache.

 

[zipper]

Confused about fogging myself...Watched a video yesterday from big supplier about how they recommend fogging. Run engine with water cooling hose, spray a lot of yamalube until the engine stalls and quickly kink the water hose so nothing floods. Question is...how do you blow the rest of the water out of the engine after you stall it? Did i miss something?

 

[Ronnie]

I've been fogging on and off (currently off) for a few years now. This string of posts has convinced me to start fogging again, primarily because the rationale of lubricating the cylinders before a long period of none use makes sense. However, I won't be following the directions where fogging one cylinder at a time is concerned. First because it's a lot more work on the 1.8 L engines than the 1 L engines. Second because I think that as I fog each subsequent cylinder the fogging oil in the prior cylinder will have burn off.

That stated I will do what I believe Jeff @Cobra Jet Steering LLC recommends and fog through the intake manifold where the flame arrestor ribbon is (or used to be in my case) while the engine is running. It shouldn't take more than a minute per engine so I probably won't run any water through via a hose while I'm fogging. While I'm at it I will replace the oil and filters as well, not because I'm concerned about the additional acidity of the used oil just so that my boat is more turn key ready when the next season starts.

Note that I like many others have had many PWCs and that for over 15 years i took no winterization actions (I.e., no filling the tank with treated fuel or fogging the engines or even maintaining the batteries) at all, usually I just started and reved them up once a month. All of the PWCs that I treated that way operated flawlessly. It wasn't until after my first jet boat developed fuel related problems in the second or third year of ownership that I started to winterize it. Now I justify all of the effort by thinking it can't hurt and it doesn't take much time or money compared to diagnosing and fixing engine related problems.

 

[bumpy]

Confused about fogging myself...Watched a video yesterday from big supplier about how they recommend fogging. Run engine with water cooling hose, spray a lot of yamalube until the engine stalls and quickly kink the water hose so nothing floods. Question is...how do you blow the rest of the water out of the engine after you stall it? Did i miss something?

I believe the engines are self draining; the waterboxes are not but maybe a shop vac with a skinny hose into the exhaust outlet would work? Has anyone tried?

 

[AZDANSX230HO]

Confused about fogging myself...Watched a video yesterday from big supplier about how they recommend fogging. Run engine with water cooling hose, spray a lot of yamalube until the engine stalls and quickly kink the water hose so nothing floods. Question is...how do you blow the rest of the water out of the engine after you stall it? Did i miss something?

I saw that in the video, kind of misses the point of blowing out any excess water, because if you turn off the water and blow out the remaining water you lose the effect of fogging the cylinders by revving the engines to get it out Lol. So you are left with water not being blown out.

 

[ncnmra]

I've been fogging on and off (currently off) for a few years now. This string of posts has convinced me to start fogging again, primarily because the rationale of lubricating the cylinders before a long period of none use makes sense. However, I won't be following the directions where fogging one cylinder at a time is concerned. First because it's a lot more work on the 1.8 L engines than the 1 L engines. Second because I think that as I fog each subsequent cylinder the fogging oil in the prior cylinder will have burn off.

I still want to do the fogging, but am unsure how myself. Especially since the MR1 has individual throttle bodies. There are three methods that I have come across:

1. Spray 3 sec of fogging oil into each TB with engine off, and then run the engine for 15 sec -- as per Owners Manual
   
2. Spray each TB for 1 minute with engine running -- as per Yamaha bulletin
   
3. Spray directly into cylinder through spark plug hole and crank engine (not starting)

#2 makes zero sense to me for the reason you stated above. By the time I'm done cylinder #4, then #1 has continued running and will have burned off a bunch of the oil.

I guess based on this, #1 makes the most sense (not on a hose) after you have blown out the water and/or done your antifreeze.

 

[ncnmra]

Side question: when you guys are running on a hose, are you applying full water pressure from the house?

 

[AZDANSX230HO]

I think they are separate issues. Nobody is saying that fogging will prevent moisture incursion through engine oil. However, we are suggesting that running the engine briefly WILL. When you fog, you're coating the internals with the oil. Why burn off the fogging oil and introduce engine oil which may have condensation in it by running the engine briefly? Similarly, what is there to gain to run the engine very briefly in the winter? I see @Cobra Jet Steering LLC 's point about cycling the valve springs, but I would surmise that turning the engine over (not actually starting it) would be enough, and better for the engine than starting it for any period less than 10-20 minutes. I would also suggest that repeated cold starts (especially in very cold climates) aren't doing your engines any long term favors (oil viscosity, etc).

Of course these are likely minor details and ultimately each one of us needs to do what they feel comfortable with....again; its why I asked because I see a lot of point of debate on every forum regarding these issues...enough to give me a headache.

I am opting out of this debate, do what you please with your boats and I will do what I know works for mine.

 

[bronze_10]

I am opting out of this debate, do what you please with your boats and I will do what I know works for mine.

Agree... I think everyone is coming to that conclusion... too.much won't hurt anything but the wallet.... not enough will hurt if something breaks but the trick is finding the not enough line... either way ask 100 boaters and get 100 different answers... I saw one guy a long time ago on here said his winterizing is putting the cover on.. lol

 

[ncnmra]

I was hoping this thread may bring some clarity and consensus, but its looking like tomato/tomatoe. It *has* certainly helped me formulate a better plan for myself...likely many of the things that I'll be doing are overkill, but I don't want to question or kick myself if something happens down the line.

 

[Mainah]

@ncnmra Thanks for starting the debate. While everyone will end up doing what they believe is best for them I think we all learned something from it and gave us pause to think more about why are doing what we are doing which is never a bad thing.

 

[Gym]

Ok, so my question still remains what will fogging to do to prevent this?

Fogging will leave a light film of oil on cylinder walls, rings, valves, valve seats and other engine internals that will adhere to these components throughout the storage period. This is evidenced by the oil burn off you see when first started in the spring. There is little to nothing you can do with condensation that builds up in engine oil. Running it to normal operating temp in the spring will bake off any moisture that did accumulate.

Just to be clear, it's unlikely not following these procedures would result in catastrophic engine failure but are outlined as best practices by the manufacturer and the maintenance community for a healthy, best performing engine. There were a couple of members on here that found they had a stuck valve when dewinterizing. While there is no proof as to the exact cause there advice from Yamaha and the mechanic involved in the repair. You may want to read over this post by @txav8r https://jetboaters.net/threads/ar210-wont-start-and-rough-idle-update-solution.1279/page-2 Read the entire thread started by @ToddW850. His mechanic did endorse the fogging procedure although probably not the root cause of the failure.

 

[btbowden]

This may be a silly question, but regarding the fuel, why not just fill up on ethanol free fuel and not have to worry about phase separation? That is my plan this winter. I guess because you guys can't find ethanol free or it is cheaper to use stabilizer?

 

[swatski]

This may be a silly question, but regarding the fuel, why not just fill up on ethanol free fuel and not have to worry about phase separation? That is my plan this winter. I guess because you guys can't find ethanol free or it is cheaper to use stabilizer?

Can't get it where I am... Fill up with 93 premium instead, hoping it does have lower EtOH content.

 

[Speedling]

Only E free by me is the marina and is 4.29 a gallon last time I was there.
My winterization is rev the engines once when pulling out. Park in garage.

 

[ncnmra]

Fuel stabilizer does more than protect against water separation:

https://www.reference.com/vehicles/fuel-stabilizer-work-61e0562fd388e52a#

 

[ncnmra]

I guess I forget one step: lubing the grease fitting/zerk?

 

[4x15mph]

ethanol free with Stabil Storage is my go to option. Stabil Storage version is not meant to be used through the season.

 

[firecap797]

After reading all this, I think I'm just going to let the dealer do it. I could, but I think it's more peace of mind for me.

 

[firecap797]

Can't get it where I am... Fill up with 93 premium instead, hoping it does have lower EtOH content.

@swatski Looks like there is one place in St Charles..

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=MO