Winterization debates

[ncnmra]

I am still not sold on real world vs theoretical benefits of fogging oil or antifreeze but until I believe there really aren't any I am in the tired and true camp and will do it anyway.

I agree. It may only be piece of mind, but its cheap, so why not?

To the debate on fogging: is there any concern on adding too much oil and hydrolocking the engine? Especially when done if the engine is not running?

 

[AZDANSX230HO]

I seem to remember reading a thread where a members engine messed up. After pulling the engine and broken down it was a valve with rust on it that was sticking open. Wouldn't the fogging oil used regularly HELP to prevent issues like this. Again is said HELP! HELP by coating with the fogging oil.

...

HELP not SOLVE!

The MR-1 Engines are mostly aluminum with the block, heads, and pistons - I am unsure of the rings and valves as far as if the material used to make them. Aluminum parts do not rust, if the valves are stainless steel or titanium they in theory should not rust. The valve guides provide the necessary lubrication for the valve to operate, not sure why some rust on the valve would cause it to stick unless the valve stem itself rusted, pitted, and ate up a valve guide and then ultimately causing the valve to break.

Here is a video of an MR-1 being rebuilt, you can see all the parts during the 18 minute video. For me spraying oil into the throttle body leaves oil coating it, I would want to spray some carb/throttle body cleaner in each one after the Winter to get rid of any oily film inside the throttle body if I used fogging oil.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

The one thing people forget about on a 4 stroke engine is valve spring compression and leaving a 4 stroke engine in the same position for many months without turning it over periodically, this is probably not a real good thing for the valve springs .

 

[Julian]

My 2 cents....

• Fogging oil--I used to do this when I lived up North--I don't anymore and winter is shorter and temps less extreme. Also helps avoid fouled plugs...which these boats are prone to. So if you DO fog...be prepared to change your plugs in the spring if she isn't running well.
• Anti-freeze--13 years and never did this. Only heard about it on the forums starting 8-10 years ago....I think this is an IO guy who started this...and made others paranoid about it. I've not bought in on the paranoia.
• If you have ballast or fresh water wash tanks....those could use anti freeze or removal completely from the boat.
• I put 3-4 damp rid containers in every winter.....they are always full of water in the spring...so they absorb some humidity....and reduce any mildew issues I've had.
• Oil change at the end of season.

Lastly...check out the FAQ on winterizing:

https://jetboaters.net/faq/how-do-i-winterize-my-jet-boat.64/

 

[AZDANSX230HO]

I agree. It may only be piece of mind, but its cheap, so why not?

To the debate on fogging: is there any concern on adding too much oil and hydrolocking the engine? Especially when done if the engine is not running?

Hydrolocking an engine normally occurs with water or too much fuel flooding the cylinder, I guess if you have way too much oil in the cylinder in theory could cause the same issue. Like I said before if people choose to fog the engine go for it, I do not feel it is necessary with these engines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolock

 

[AZDANSX230HO]

Just for fun I looked up long term storage on my 1000cc Yamaha YXZ1000R Side by Side, says to fill the tank with fresh fuel and fuel stabilizer, remove the spark plugs and add one tablespoon of engine oil into each cylinder, then turn engine over several times, then re-install plugs. Does not mention fogging oil or spraying fogging oil into the throttle body.

So if you have aluminum cylinders, heads, pistons, why the need for the oil unless the rings are made of steel and somehow you get enough moisture in the cylinders during storage to cause any rust?

 

[Ancient canoe]

The one thing people forget about on a 4 stroke engine is valve spring compression and leaving a 4 stroke engine in the same position for many months without turning it over periodically, this is probably not a real good thing for the valve springs .

How often do you recommend cranking them up?

 

[AZDANSX230HO]

How often do you recommend cranking them up?

I normally fire up all my toys once a month during the winter, whether it's my boat, side by side, or quads.

 

[ncnmra]

The one thing people forget about on a 4 stroke engine is valve spring compression and leaving a 4 stroke engine in the same position for many months without turning it over periodically, this is probably not a real good thing for the valve springs .

Makes sense, although I've also heard the contrary theory that running the engine only for a brief period is the absolute worst you could do because it circulates the oil without giving enough time to cook off any water in it. Just repeating what my BMW Master mechanic told me to do with my S54 engine over the winter (ie: don't touch it).

 

[ncnmra]

Still one question to answer though:
10W-30 or 10W-40?

 

[AZDANSX230HO]

Still one question to answer though:
10W-30 or 10W-40?

 

[veedubtek]

I believe Jeff isn't saying to start it, just spin it over a few times. And, I agree.

 

[bumpy]

Rings, cylinder liners, valves, guides and springs are all steel; they will rust. Un-coated bare aluminum will oxidize. I have been using fogging oil for many years, first through carburators and then through intakes; no issues yet and I like the peace of mind. Of course, I live with a long, cold, and moist winter!

 

[Scottintexas]

Yamaha contradicts itself too. The owners manual says to add fogging oil to the intake with the engine off and then run the engine. Then there is a TSB that says spray into the intake with the engine running, etc. Same thing with oil: 10W-30 vs 10W-40. I guess the specs and recommendations changed.

Make sure your looking at the correct engines. The MR1 and the 1.8 have different fogging procedures, I do remember at a few years ago Yamaha changed their view and said we should be fogging even if the engine is going to sit for short periods of time (sorry I'm not going to search for the thread as back up).

 

[Ancient canoe]

I am just going to trade up every spring.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Just bump the starters so you change the cams positions don't start them , I use 20-40 but that is just me and I am in FLORIDA where it gets hot in the summer, hell the water is 90+ degrees in the summer.

 

[bronze_10]

I wish I could find that thread... someone help me.. he had to build a gantry hose to get the motor out... I think that's the one.. if goes into detail about the rust in the valve and how they fixed it. I just read it the other freaking day and now I can't find it! Uggghhh

 

[Gym]

@Mainah. I do the fogging & antifreeze. The antifreeze is more for the water boxes than for the gravity drained engines. You can NEVER remove all water from the water boxes. I know there is room for expansion but ask my wife why her vase, left half full of water in our winterized house, burst and so did a copper elbow in my blown out heating system. Both had plenty of air space for expansion but still burst. If you get a quick, hard freeze the ice can form a trap. When the water below finally freezes it will expand finding the weakest point. I believe there was one member on the other site that lost a water box to this.

 

[ncnmra]

Make sure your looking at the correct engines. The MR1 and the 1.8 have different fogging procedures, I do remember at a few years ago Yamaha changed their view and said we should be fogging even if the engine is going to sit for short periods of time (sorry I'm not going to search for the thread as back up).

I came across this bulletin (attached). It specifically calls out the 1052cc engine (MR1). Its only one page, but doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Namely, if you're spraying for 1 minute (I assume bursts, otherwise the engine will stall), then by the time you get you cylinder #4, cylinder #1 will have been running for an additional 3 minutes without fogging. This procedure seems very strange to me.

 

[mrmeaniemeateaterman]

I wish I could find that thread... someone help me.. he had to build a gantry hose to get the motor out... I think that's the one.. if goes into detail about the rust in the valve and how they fixed it. I just read it the other freaking day and now I can't find it! Uggghhh

I think this is what you are talking about.
https://jetboaters.net/threads/ar210-wont-start-and-rough-idle-update-solution.1279/