2014 AR190 Leaking and loss of thrust

[giantsmotox]

Hey there everyone, long time lurker and first time poster here on the forum hoping that someone can assist me with a sudden issue I am having with my boat. I have had my 2014 AR190 for 2 years now as the second owner, and it has been flawless with 240 hours on the engine at this point. I always run in salt or brackish water in and around the Chesapeake Bay. As I was out pulling a wakeboarder yesterday, the boat suddenly started making a grinding noise and vibrating, and lost all thrust above 5k RPM. The feeling and sound was similar to cavitation when coming out of the hole pulling someone heavy on a tube or wakeboard, but did not improve as it usually does after a second or two. We limped the boat back to the dock, and were able to maintain 4k without much noise or vibrating. The engine will rev out completely its max RPM, however the boat will not move past 10MPH. The clean-out port and intake were completely clear as well. Upon arriving at the dock I noticed that the bilge was pumping water which was unusual, and upon further inspection I saw that there was a small leak coming from what appears to be the bottom right bolt where the transom meets the intermediate bearing assembly. The leak appears to occur when the engine is off and at low RPMs, however I did not verify if it was leaking at higher RPMS. I have attached a picture and highlighted where the leak is coming from. This leak is only coming from this singular area, and there is no water coming in bilaterally or from other places in the assembly. I have family visiting in 2 weeks for a boat-filled vacation, and will do everything in my power to get this back up and running prior to that. Does this lead one to believe that I blew out sealant and that the area around the bearing assembly can be patched to remove the cavitation and prevent leaking, or is this generally caused by blown out bearings and seals and a new assembly is in order? Thanks in advance for all of the help! - Rob

 

[Acard7]

Did you loosen the bearing housing bolts? Looks like you did in the pic. I’d pull the boat out of the water and pull the pump to inspect the shaft and impeller. Changing the intermediate bearing assembly isn’t that hard of a job if you want to go that route. It would be worth running it on the water and checking the bearing housing at higher RPM. Other than that you can do the usual checks like oil level and air filter but this really sounds like some sort of cavitation issue, whether it’s something you can’t see or maybe the bearing is bad already and needs changed.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

It looks like the intermediate bearing housing is LOOSE from the bulk head and has been so for a long time it appears judging by that white ring around it. You can see the gaps between the bolt head and the bulk head. Just a quick guess you’re sucking a bunch of air in through that gap. The grinding sound? Could be the bearing is shot, have you ever greased that bearing?

Looks like its been leaking for a long time judging by the water line mark on the bulk head.

Chances are you will need to replace the intermediate bearing at a minimum. You will probably need a new rubber Cush drive between the two love joy couplings.

 

[giantsmotox]

Did you loosen the bearing housing bolts? Looks like you did in the pic. I’d pull the boat out of the water and pull the pump to inspect the shaft and impeller. Changing the intermediate bearing assembly isn’t that hard of a job if you want to go that route. It would be worth running it on the water and checking the bearing housing at higher RPM. Other than that you can do the usual checks like oil level and air filter but this really sounds like some sort of cavitation issue, whether it’s something you can’t see or maybe the bearing is bad already and needs changed.

Those bolts were not loosened by me at any point, and I only noticed them looking that way myself was when it started leaking. It would make sense that they could have been slowly working their way loose for the past couple years before showing symptoms. The impeller and shaft look completely fine from the intake, however I will pull those tomorrow to inspect further. I have also confirmed that both the oil level and air filter are to spec. Can you elaborate on what would be typical of a shot bearing assembly at higher RPM? Would I be taking on more or less water? I will attempt to drop it in this week and test it after tightening the bolts. I really hope it could be something that simple...

 

[giantsmotox]

It looks like the intermediate bearing housing is LOOSE from the bulk head and has been so for a long time it appears judging by that white ring around it. You can see the gaps between the bolt head and the bulk head. Just a quick guess you’re sucking a bunch of air in through that gap. The grinding sound? Could be the bearing is shot, have you ever greased that bearing?

Looks like its been leaking for a long time judging by the water line mark on the bulk head.

Chances are you will need to replace the intermediate bearing at a minimum. You will probably need a new rubber Cush drive between the two love joy couplings.

I did not notice the bolts appearing loose until it starting leaking, and am hoping that tightening them up will remedy the issue. We did have some rougher water with all of the boats on the water for Memorial Day weekend, and the boat took a good bit of larger chop. I just recently greased the intermediate bearing when winterizing in November of last year. I have never checked the engine compartment after a day on the water and noticed more than a few millimeters of water, which I assumed was flowing down from the anchor/ski lockers. I am hopeful that there is a small chance that tightening and sealing the housing will resolve the issue. Is it even worth getting a quote from the dealer on an intermediate bearing replacement, or is it something that could be done in an afternoon by someone with a reasonable amount of experience turning wrenches?

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I do not think it will be that easy to do quickly.. you have to take the engine loose and move it forward to be able to get the bearing / bearing housing out. The pump has to come out first though.

@madtom has had a heck of a go replacing his..

Post in thread 'intermediate bearing replacement info.'

Saturday at 10:04 PM

The lack of drama continues. The second intermediate bearing replacement was uneventful. I assembled the new bearing unit and confirmed that when grease is added through the fitting, it flows out at the rear around the shaft. Judging by the grooves machined into the housing, it appears that all the grease is directed toward the rear seals, and I’m not even sure if any reaches the bearing in the middle. I packed that puppy well before assembly so it is good to go. I reused the alignment pins from the old housing.


I plan to disassemble the old bearing assemblies later to...

• madtom

• 
• 

Good to hear you greased the bearing but that grinding sound you heard does not bode well….

You’re either going to need a dealer or a good shop to R&R that bearing. It is a bit distressing that the housing has come loose.

 

[Acard7]

I’d say your problem is definitely related to the bearing housing being loose there. I would pull your impeller and shaft to inspect them. Then I’d peak in to where your impeller shaft goes into to see if you can see the intermediate shaft, if there’s any damage or anything. You can certainly try to tighten the bearing housing back in place but I’d really think it’s time for a new one, since the rubber and the housing have probably detached somehow and that’s why it’s loose. I would tighten it back in place though, to make sure when the bearing is pulled you have the right measurements on the shaft itself. Mark the coupler side with a sharpie. The bearing is bad when it leaks. Hard to believe yours isn’t bad just because it’s loose like that. Just hope you didn’t grind any metal between the shafts.

I replaced my intermediate bearing on my AR230 and it took me 2 hours. You need a press to press the shaft out of the old bearing housing and press it into the new bearing housing after you measure the shaft sticking out of the bearing opposite of the coupler with a micrometer (I marked the shaft along the rubber on the coupler side too). I ran into no problems while replacing mine though. Below is the link to my experience. Although it’s a different engine it’s the same concept of how to do it on yours too.

My Bearing Replacement

 

[tdonoughue]

I guess what worries me is the grinding sound. I think your intermediate bearing is impacted. Look at the replacement stuff posted here--think that is for you? Does that fall into 'reasonable experience with the wrench'? These machines are not (really) all that complex. Part of what I like about them. I would do it in a minute (especially with the folks around here). But it really is what you are up to.

Other option is to bolt it up (well, probably need something between the transom and the bearing) and try it on the water. See if the grinding continues, if there are leaks... and then go from there. Might get you through the 2 weeks. Or it will show that you have something more serious.

 

[giantsmotox]

Good morning all,

I started off the day pulling the pump and was hoping to get some feedback on this part of the process prior to moving to replacing the bearing housing. Everything seems in decent shape for exclusively saltwater use, however I did notice that one of the screws appears to be missing where the impeller shaft plugs into the bearing housing (pic attached). Could that be cause for concern and need replacement? The bearing on the impeller is practically new and was packed with grease, so I will add some fresh grease and package that back up. The impeller could use replacement, but I intend to leave it be for the duration of summer. I also have 3M 5200 on hand to seal the intake if the attached pictures suggest it. Will I need to add liquid gasket to the pump when bolting it back together? Still new to this boat thing as I have primarily worked on motorcycles, so I am leaning heavily on everyone's feedback. Lastly, the pictured cylindrical (spacer?) pictured next to the pump fins fell out of the assembly and I cannot locate where it might have been from if anyone recognizes it. Thank you all once again for your contributions!

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

The grease under the cone on the back of the jet pump looks totally compromised with water, without being there in person and looking at it I would say that the pump needs to be completely rebuilt as the seals are probably bad that are directly behind the impeller.

The impeller needs to be repaired right away for sure, it’s hammered, or more likely replaced as it looks to be in pretty bad shape. The wear ring section of the pump also needs to be replaced, the gap between the impeller and wear ring is important, I think .0138” is the minimum and .0177” is the max.

That bushing goes in the thrust vector, you can see where it goes in the picture that you shot.

If you do not have a shop manual for that boat you need to get one, it will make your job a lot easier.

Now that the impeller shaft is out you should be able to go in and check out how much slop is in the intermediate bearing. To remove the intermediate bearing you’ll have to take the engine loose and slide it forward to allow space for it to come out. There are usually shims under the motor mounts, take note of where each one goes or the engine and Lovejoy coupling will not be aligned correctly when you reassemble it.

Do not use 3M 5200 on anything that you ever think would want to come apart.

 

[giantsmotox]

The grease under the cone on the back of the jet pump looks totally compromised with water, without being there in person and looking at it I would say that the pump needs to be completely rebuilt as the seals are probably bad that are directly behind the impeller.

The impeller needs to be repaired right away for sure, it’s hammered, or more likely replaced as it looks to be in pretty bad shape. The wear ring section of the pump also needs to be replaced, the gap between the impeller and wear ring is important, I think .0138” is the minimum and .0177” is the max.

That bushing goes in the thrust vector, you can see where it goes in the picture that you shot.

If you do not have a shop manual for that boat you need to get one, it will make your job a lot easier.

Now that the impeller shaft is out you should be able to go in and check out how much slop is in the intermediate bearing. To remove the intermediate bearing you’ll have to take the engine loose and slide it forward to allow space for it to come out. There are usually shims under the motor mounts, take note of where each one goes or the engine and Lovejoy coupling will not be aligned correctly when you reassemble it.

Do not use 3M 5200 on anything that you ever think would want to come apart.

The intermediate bearing seals are definitely shot, and the entire assembly needs to be re-tightened to the transom wall. I am having a difficult time figuring out how to remove the engine mounts and exhaust, as my AR190 has the 1.8L HO engines and there are not many write ups on them. The exhaust is rigid and only has a small rubber connector right at the transom, with the last engine mount bolt directly under the pipe. I cannot even get a smaller wrench on it. The only shop that works on these local to Virginia Beach refuses boats over 10 years old, and I just missed the cut-off. I suppose I will need a service manual to do this myself after all, unless there are write-ups for the more recent engines. If there is anyone local to Virginia Beach or within driving distance, I will gladly pay for any gas/labor to help get this done. Additionally if anyone has a mechanic local to the area it would be much appreciated. Feeling pretty discouraged due to this motor bolt at this point, which also looks to be at the verge of stripping...

 

[tdonoughue]

Pic of the offending bolt? Maybe a crescent wrench?

Agree on the impeller condition. Looks bad. Might be able to clean it up some for temp use, but plan on replacing. That will definitely cavitate...

But your pump path looks smooth--that is good.

 

[Acard7]

First your missing screw can be found on Partzilla:


Next, removing and replacing your intermediate bearing looks like you need to remove these 4 bolts to be able to slide the engine forward after removing part of the exhaust. Below is the four bolts:



Is this exhaust piece rubber?



If this is rubber, judging by the clamps, it should wiggle out of there and would give you enough room to slide the engine forward to remove the intermediate assembly. Just be careful sliding it forward, don’t wanna drop it off the mounts if that’s possible, and don’t want to lose the shims. How I did mine is I slid the engine forward, checked to see if I could squeeze the intermediate assembly out, and then slid it forward slightly more if needed.

All these diagrams are for your boat via Partzilla.

 

[giantsmotox]

The rubber exhaust piece is slid very tightly between both flanges and is not wanting to move at all even with the bands off. You can also see the long exhaust pipe in the following picture that the bolt is directly under. The last picture is where you can see the front left corner of the motor mount in which the top bolt is positioned down and back from. I have tried a crescent wrench, socket, standard wrench etc and have only gotten a partial bite and would strip the head if I continued pulling on it.

 

[Neutron]

You only need to loosen up the clamp on the manifold side, use a flat screwdriver to work the rubber loose from the pipe, they get quite stuck. Then remove all 4 of the motor mount bolts and then muscle the engine forward enough to get the intermediate assembly out. You only have to move it 1.5 to 2 inches forward it should still be able to still rest on the motor mounts. Note that there is most likely a shim between the motor and the mount on all four mounts. After you unbolt each mount pull up on the engine and get the shim or shims(sometimes there is more than one) and place in a place to reference where it came from. They must go back where you got them.
Wire wheel each bolt prior to install because there usually is corrosion and old locktight. After you put all the bolts in by a few threads you can put each shim in by lifting each corner slightly. Its not hard

 

[tdonoughue]

Then remove all 2 of the motor mount bolts

4, right?

Looks like he needs to remove the lower part of the exhaust manifold, too. It is covering the aft bolt. Can't see the connection type (it is under his arm in the photo). Anyway, once that is disconnected, bet it is much easier to get the rubber bit off.

 

[Neutron]

4, right?

Looks like he needs to remove the lower part of the exhaust manifold, too. It is covering the aft bolt. Can't see the connection type (it is under his arm in the photo). Anyway, once that is disconnected, bet it is much easier to get the rubber bit off.

Nope manifold doesn't need to be removed. Plenty of room to get all bolts out. I have done this repair many times.
You will need either a ratchet wrench or a box end of a wrench.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Use a six point box end or a six point socket…

Be sure and put something on the bolts when you put them back in.. I’d suggest Loctite 572 as it is a sealant.

 

[giantsmotox]

Nope manifold doesn't need to be removed. Plenty of room to get all bolts out. I have done this repair many times.
You will need either a ratchet wrench or a box end of a wrench.

Which side are you going in from? Im a taller guy at 6'2 and maybe I am just not flexible enough to get down in there, but I had a buddy who is considerably smaller in stature try as well and could not even come close... The box end wrench might be the ticket, as that is the only thing I have yet to try.

 

[Neutron]

Which side are you going in from? Im a taller guy at 6'2 and maybe I am just not flexible enough to get down in there, but I had a buddy who is considerably smaller in stature try as well and could not even come close... The box end wrench might be the ticket, as that is the only thing I have yet to try.

If you are going to work on your own boat, you have to be a contortionist of sorts unfortunately. You have to suck it up, lay across the engine and just "git er dun"
Some things are ugly to do but it keeps money in your pocket