2023 AR220 vs 2019 212X

[tcallis]

I'm considering between a new 2023 AR220 and used (low hours) 2019 212X. Which would you do? Price is a little less on the 2019 compared to the 2023.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Tough choice.. the new design is great - but the extra power on the 212 is nice.

I would probably go for new design personally. I don't need extra power/speed.

 

[Dave burke]

What are you going to use it for?

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

I would choose the AR220. The AR220 has higher freeboard, better rear seating, and a larger fuel tank. Plus it is four years newer and everything is under warranty.

I admit, however, that I’m a bit biased as I love the new 220’s layout.

Jim

 

[tcallis]

@Dave burke , Great question. Most use will be tubing and as a floating couch on a lake; I have small kids, 4 and 6. I imagine surfing some and learning to foil (I already kiteboard). I used to own a 2008 Moomba LSV that I surfed and I don't expect the same sort of wave. I don't mind tinkering, and if purchasing the AR220, I suspect I'll be plumbing in some reversible pumps and ballast bags -- I ripped out the factory ballast system in the Moomba and installed an entirely new one. We'll usually have 4 on the boat and occasionally 8 (4 adults, 4 children). My main concern with the AR220 is whether the TR-1s are enough engine for a nearly 23' boat. I don't care about top-end speed, but I don't want it to feel bogged down either. Unfortutately, there isn't much in the way of reports about the new 22' series with the TR-1s yet (come on, boattest.com!)

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

I doubt the TR-1s will have any issue. At the end of the day you still have two motors and that equates to a lot of torque.

 

[Dave burke]

@Dave burke , Great question. Most use will be tubing and as a floating couch on a lake; I have small kids, 4 and 6. I imagine surfing some and learning to foil (I already kiteboard). I used to own a 2008 Moomba LSV that I surfed and I don't expect the same sort of wave. I don't mind tinkering, and if purchasing the AR220, I suspect I'll be plumbing in some reversible pumps and ballast bags -- I ripped out the factory ballast system in the Moomba and installed an entirely new one. We'll usually have 4 on the boat and occasionally 8 (4 adults, 4 children). My main concern with the AR220 is whether the TR-1s are enough engine for a nearly 23' boat. I don't care about top-end speed, but I don't want it to feel bogged down either. Unfortutately, there isn't much in the way of reports about the new 22' series with the TR-1s yet (come on, boattest.com!)

The AR220 will likely be fine then. My only concern would be the engine power as you say. There’s a video on boattest.com where they tested a 2019 AR210. Empty weight is 3200 lbs and top speed of 43 mph. I watched review of the 222XD and that tops out at 47. My 2017 212x does 50. Hard to be sure but my guess is the AR220 will do 40ish.

the real concern though is what will it do with 8 people in it, particularly as your kids get older. I’d worry that it may struggle a bit. Hopefully you’ll hear from people that already have this boat and can speak from experience.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

the real concern though is what will it do with 8 people in it, particularly as your kids get older. I’d worry that it may struggle a bit. Hopefully you’ll hear from people that already have this boat and can speak from experience.

Personally, if I was going to routinely have 8 people in the boat, I would be looking at a 25’ boat, as it can seat up to 8 people behind the windshield, 2 more than the 21/22’s.


Jim

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Personally, if I was going to routinely have 8 people in the boat, I would be looking at a 25’ boat, as it can seat up to 8 people behind the windshield, 2 more than the 21/22’s.


Jim

Hell 8 people in. 252 is kinda of annoying.

 

[Dave burke]

Hell 8 people in. 252 is kinda of annoying.

Lol

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

@Dave burke , Great question. Most use will be tubing and as a floating couch on a lake; I have small kids, 4 and 6. I imagine surfing some and learning to foil (I already kiteboard). I used to own a 2008 Moomba LSV that I surfed and I don't expect the same sort of wave. I don't mind tinkering, and if purchasing the AR220, I suspect I'll be plumbing in some reversible pumps and ballast bags -- I ripped out the factory ballast system in the Moomba and installed an entirely new one. We'll usually have 4 on the boat and occasionally 8 (4 adults, 4 children). My main concern with the AR220 is whether the TR-1s are enough engine for a nearly 23' boat. I don't care about top-end speed, but I don't want it to feel bogged down either. Unfortutately, there isn't much in the way of reports about the new 22' series with the TR-1s yet (come on, boattest.com!)

What altitude will you be operating the boat at? Once you start getting up in altitude there can be a pretty significant negative impact on horsepower. Also what kind of high temperatures will you have at your location?

I operate my 210 FSH at 5000’ and during the height (see what I did there?) of summer it can get up to upper 90’s. My boat has twin TR-1’s in it, and there was a significant hit to top speed, as @adrianp89 states there was still good torque off the bottom. However, with 5 people in the boat and two people on Big Mable which was not inflated as high as it should have been on a hot summer day my boat struggled to get on plane.

I have since gone to re pitched impellers and picked up a significant amount of performance that way.

https://jetboaters.net/threads/high-altitude-impellers.30923/

Didn’t have a chance to test them out last summer towing Big Mable with a boat load of people but I have no doubt that the boat will perform exponentially better. So, if you’re down on performance a bit a re pitch is super easy to do.

If you are going to be having 4 people on the boat regularly and 8 occasionally the 22’ imho would be the minimum. If you haven’t already go to a dealer with your blossoming family, sit in the boat and sorta act out your day on the boat to get a good feel for the space, storage etc..

 

[tcallis]

@FSH 210 Sport , the elevation of our two primary lakes are 2,000 and 1,200 feet, with typical summer highs in the mid-80s.

 

[2kwik4u]

Hell 8 people in. 252 is kinda of annoying.

I've had 8 adults on my 190 we were all much better friends by the end of the day.

@tcallis

I would go AR220 if it was my cash. New layout is pretty spectacular, and it sounds like you don't need/want the wake features on the 212X.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

@FSH 210 Sport , the elevation of our two primary lakes are 2,000 and 1,200 feet, with typical summer highs in the mid-80s.

So just as a point of reference… here is the density altitude calculation for 2000’, 50% humidity, and 29.00 Hg.



Your engines will think they are at 5014’, so hp loss will be approx 15%. I don‘t think this is a bid deal to you and what you are going to be doing. Again, if you find that your peak revs of your engine are way off you can get a re pitch to get your revs up to rated rpm.

Here is an example of what I faced..



I deal with a 30% hp loss on my closest lake… my peak revs were down 1000 rpms (7000) with the OEM impellers. With a re pitch I got that drop down to about 200 (7800) and rated is 8000 rpms. Now my boat perfroms exponentially better at 5000’ in the summer..

Conclusion, don’t sweat the engine power aspect of your choice.