AR 230 H.O no start when hot

[FSH 210 Sport]

Sounds like a pick up coil. Check it with an ohm meter when cold and again when hot and you have the hard / no start. Sometimes in coils like that there is a broken wire that when cold the wire ends are touching, but when it gets hot the wires drift apart. This was common on the old Motoplat ignitions.

 

[euro_e30]

Sounds like a pick up coil. Check it with an ohm meter when cold and again when hot and you have the hard / no start. Sometimes in coils like that there is a broken wire that when cold the wire ends are touching, but when it gets hot the wires drift apart. This was common on the old Motoplat ignitions.

when you say pickup coil, are you referring to the coil packs? what should the reading be cold and then hot?

 

[David Martin]

Cleaned them myself....it only requires an injector pulser (Ebay around 30 dollars) their are a lot of videos on how to use a pulser and a car tire valve with a carb cleaner to spray clean injectors. ........... After removing all my screens it was then I realized that were was virtually no dirt in the screens that would cause any problem. A quick backwards blow with the cleaner would have been good enough. Next time I would just run the cleaner with the pulse in both direction.........running it backwards would blow out all the debris in the nylon screens.

I added one step you wont find in the video I pulse sprayed after carb cleaner with WD40 just to lube the needles..................since I was not returning them to service for about 2 days.....did not want the dry needles to stick to needle seat.

This guys did not use a pulser...... The Yamaha injectors are around 200 dollars each so cleaning them is well worth it.
(87) Fuel Injection cleaning in less than 5 Minutes/HOW TO clean injection Directly without disassembling - YouTube

 

[David Martin]

FSH210 makes a good point about pickup coils........The plug read on the well used plugs was the single most important thing that gets over looked..... A doctor reads the heart of the human body with a stethoscope....the heart of the engine is read in the plugs. Plug read can lean you toward the Pick up coil or towards the fuel injectors. It would be nice if you had the old plugs in the order you took the out to help in the diagnosis.....but without them its not to hard with an volt meter as FHS210 says to narrow it down.

On a 2005 boat it does not hurt at all to test pickup coils...coil packs...clean injectors and throw in a compression test just to put your mind at ease. Then go have some FUN......

 

[euro_e30]

thanks for the input and help everyone i will dig into this and report back!

 

[Babin Farms]

I swapped all 4 coil packs to the other engine to see if my problem followed them or not. Keep them all in the same order each time you pull them that way if they are the problem it’s not moving around.

 

[euro_e30]

Had a local shop take a look so we could go out this week and they told me that 2 injectors were stuck open on my motor and pretty bad on the other, I had a local guy clean them and provide test data and all 8 came back good , installed them did a fresh oil change and on land everything looked good , however when I put it in the water and tried to start it once again was receiving to much fuel. Was able to start it after a while but the low oil light turned on but I checked the oil and everything looked good there , later on when I started it on our way back from the sand bar , I got it started with the throttle and then it would blimp up and down on the way home . Not sure what the issue is now

Few notes from the mechanic , compression was good , said he didn’t see any ecm issues since it was giving good spark and fuel signal ,

Could this still be an ecm issues ? Any ideas on what to try next ?

 

[Beachbummer]

Do you have a YDS available? Doing the injector driver tests is probably a good idea.

 

[Ronnie]

Long shot, but I had a Waverunner (fx 140 with 998 cc 140 hp) that would start initallly but would not on w warmed up. It ended up being a two part issue. Bad rectifier (less than $100) and bad / irreparable ecm (over $1,000).

 

[euro_e30]

I do not have a YDS I’m going to order one to help trouble shoot

 

[David Martin]

Wow said EMC was doing it job but you are still wetting the plugs.............last thing I have is the MAP sensor Mass Air pressure sensor...... this sensor is reasonable for giving data of air flow to the EMC the EMC takes this info and tell the injectors how much fuel to deliver to the engine a bad MAP can tell the emc to put out to much fuel, for a given air flow. I would take the engine you have thats running fine and swap the MAP sensor and see what happens. At lease this is a low cost part compared to the EMC.

 

[Beachbummer]

If you are ordering the YDS, I would suggest waiting for it before swapping the maf/map, the MAF can be tricky to swap without breaking it on these older engines. Might be less dangerous to swap the whole throttle body, but I might me more chicken than others

Thoughts???

 

[euro_e30]

I ordered the YDS should have in a few days , let me see how tricky it is to swap if it’s not bad I’ll swap it to give it a shot , I’m assuming you can test the MAF with the YDS ?

 

[David Martin]

YDS should run a voltage test on the MAF as it runs. Sorry I just looked up your engine and yes it more than a little different than my 1.8l but you are correct the MAP or MAF could be the reason. Yamaha list your engine sensor as Pressure sensor 60E-82380-10-00.


Same as a MAP or MAF it tells the emc how much fuel to inject based on air flow or pressure. Anyway if it mess up it can tell the emc to deliver enough fuel for 8000rpm when all you need is an idle/start. Not good!!!!!

 

[euro_e30]

Thanks for the help hopefully this may be my issue , boat ran great all year and the past 2 weeks have me trouble !

 

[euro_e30]

YDS should run a voltage test on the MAF as it runs. Sorry I just looked up your engine and yes it more than a little different than my 1.8l but you are correct the MAP or MAF could be the reason. Yamaha list your engine sensor as Pressure sensor 60E-82380-10-00.


Same as a MAP or MAF it tells the emc how much fuel to inject based on air flow or pressure. Anyway if it mess up it can tell the emc to deliver enough fuel for 8000rpm when all you need is an idle/start. Not good!!!!!

Is the above part number correct for a 2005? I could not find it online

thanks

 

[David Martin]

Yamaha Parts | Partzilla.com Might be........... I used partzilla to look up your 2005 AR23 they list 2 AR230 a High output and a non High output.........the above is the non High engine output check their site under boat/205 the which motor you have. The high output engine shows
6B6-83688-00-00

 

[euro_e30]

Can anyone give me some pointers on how to test the map sensor with the YDS (YDS comes in Friday) never used it so if there are any tutorials on how to use it that would be great

 

[euro_e30]

just got the YDS and ran some tests, did the injector test and the starboard motor clicked for all injectors except for #2 (this stayed quiet for the test), and the port motor was good on 3 injectors but was quiet for injector [HASH=108]#1,[/HASH] i just had all injector cleaned and tested fine professionally. As i previosuly mentioned the starboard motor was the one giving me issues not so much the port motor.

anyone know what the symptoms would be for one of the injectors not clicking during the YDS test?

 

[Beachbummer]

Injector bad or ECU bad.

If it was me, I would confirm by swapping injector places on both engines, a good one with a bad one and try again. If the issue moves you know it's the injector. If not, check wiring, but it might be the ECU. As you get to this stage, as you dig at the ECU and remove the cover, anything wet or suspect?