Bottom Brackets 2023 FSH 195 Sport

[Bottom Bracket]

Wrote the check, it's mine free and clear.
Complete Marine, Phoenix Arizona

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Right on!!!!! That thing is going to be so much fun! And a hot rod!

 

[Dixemon]

Nice, Congrats. Time to bust out your wallet, we are good here at spending your money for you.

 

[Bottom Bracket]

Thanks guys!
This is our 3rd boat, 1987 astroglas bass boat that I fished out of, turned into a 1992 23 Maxum cruiser that we wet slipped at Canyon Lake AZ.
Downsizing will allow us to be more flexible.
Boat will be used on the Salt River lakes, We have a house just below Saquaro and Canyon and another house above Roosevelt, This allows us to pick our weather and since both are retired we can fish during the week.
We will also be on Powell and Havasu.

The list is long.
I am a FAA certified aircraft mechanic, 35 year factory trained Apache Helicopter Mechanic in an R&D environment, Extensive experience flying mach and full scale Helicopters in Wind Tunnels.
Drilling holes in a boat won't be a problem cept for the itchy.

Imagonna ditch the telephone booth, ain't no salt water around here, it will hang from the ceiling in my shop.
Dealer (Complete Marine, Phoenix) is offering up quotes for my wish list.
Dealer has been straight up with us and I appreciate that, We will do our best to enjoy the process!
Dealer is handling the trailer registration and AZ numbers.
Dealer is supplying a get on the water safety package. and a nice discount in the Parts dept.

These items need to be completed before it gets wet.

8' custom built 4 bow traditional style bimini. Black with a satin black frame.
Black keel guard.
Interstate green marine cranking "house" battery. The boat came with 1 battery, 2 boxes, the fancy wizbang switch and cabling for 2.
Couple of fenders.
Spare tire/wheel/mount.
Mooring cover.

Dealer is working up a modest electronic quote, GPS trolling motor, 7" bow, 9" console. Most likey Humminbird, Minnkota.
2 12v 100ah life poo batteries with individual chargers. Battle born possibly, dealer sells nexgen....
More than likely I will do this installation.

Things I have learned here that I have applied.
I did a visual well lit inspection of the hull strakes for blistering, Blisters would have been a deal breaker,
FSH 210's battery write ups have been quite informative.
Operating info and experiences from folks in different environments have been very helpful.


Should be a Hoot!

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Thanks guys!
This is our 3rd boat, 1987 astroglas bass boat that I fished out of, turned into a 1992 23 Maxum cruiser that we wet slipped at Canyon Lake AZ.
Downsizing will allow us to be more flexible.
Boat will be used on the Salt River lakes, We have a house just below Saquaro and Canyon and another house above Roosevelt, This allows us to pick our weather and since both are retired we can fish during the week.
We will also be on Powell and Havasu.

The list is long.
I am a FAA certified aircraft mechanic, 35 year factory trained Apache Helicopter Mechanic in an R&D environment, Extensive experience flying mach and full scale Helicopters in Wind Tunnels.
Drilling holes in a boat won't be a problem cept for the itchy.

Imagonna ditch the telephone booth, ain't no salt water around here, it will hang from the ceiling in my shop.
Dealer (Complete Marine, Phoenix) is offering up quotes for my wish list.
Dealer has been straight up with us and I appreciate that, We will do our best to enjoy the process!
Dealer is handling the trailer registration and AZ numbers.
Dealer is supplying a get on the water safety package. and a nice discount in the Parts dept.

These items need to be completed before it gets wet.

8' custom built 4 bow traditional style bimini. Black with a satin black frame.
Black keel guard.
Interstate green marine cranking "house" battery. The boat came with 1 battery, 2 boxes, the fancy wizbang switch and cabling for 2.
Couple of fenders.
Spare tire/wheel/mount.
Mooring cover.

Dealer is working up a modest electronic quote, GPS trolling motor, 7" bow, 9" console. Most likey Humminbird, Minnkota.
2 12v 100ah life poo batteries with individual chargers. Battle born possibly, dealer sells nexgen....
More than likely I will do this installation.

Things I have learned here that I have applied.
I did a visual well lit inspection of the hull strakes for blistering, Blisters would have been a deal breaker,
FSH 210's battery write ups have been quite informative.
Operating info and experiences from folks in different environments have been very helpful.


Should be a Hoot!

Glad you found my battery write up helpful! If its any help, Battle Born batteries are made entirely in the US up in Reno Nevada.

 

[Bottom Bracket]

Yep, I mentioned that Battle Born Are from Reno. This dealer sells nexgen and I am considering that.
I walked through a warehouse crammed full of fully rigged Caymas bass boats, big mercs, minnkota, humminbird, nexgen.
These guys have been bass fishing a long time.

 

[Bottom Bracket]

So Joe got back to me yesterday.
We decided to have everything done when we take delivery.
That means wife is paying the labor. Not going to argue.

Work that will be accomplished at the dealer.

Bimini install.
spare tire and mount.
keel guard
"house" interstate lead acid battery.
minnkota terrova trolling motor. 50a breaker
humminbird helix 7 chirp gps di on bow
humminbird helix 9 msi at the helm.
power cables, ethernet,
Next Gen 24v life poo battery with charger.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Sounds like a great plan! Get it all done so you can just go and enjoy the boat.. you’ll get a chance later to work on things.

Question.. why the 24 V troller instead of a 36 V troller? Just being curious not critical..

 

[Bottom Bracket]

Yep. not critical at all, love a tech discussion

Price/budget, weight and space are better with 24v.

80lb. thrust on a 19' freshwater boat, 24v 60ah, s/b more than enough.
The added run time of the 36v is attractive, however I s/b able to get a full
day's runtime with 24v.

36v trolling motor, more bank.
36v life poo battery more bank.
higher capacity power cables/ bigger breaker more bank.

35lbs. $1050.00

 

[Bottom Bracket]

So this is the charger. They also sell a charger that hooks to the engines charging circuit.
My choice is this stand alone, extension cord charging method. All mounted in the changing room forward cubby.

 

[Bottom Bracket]

Parts are coming in, cover and bimini, battery s/b there today.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

So this is the charger. They also sell a charger that hooks to the engines charging circuit.
My choice is this stand alone, extension cord charging method. All mounted in the changing room forward cubby.

I like that it is a 20A!

The engine charging is something I looked into as well with a Trollbridge charger fed from the start battery. The issue is that our charging systems don’t put out very much charging current. I’ll know better this season after I put the smart shunt on my house battery and I’ll be able actually measure how much current is coming in.

 

[Bottom Bracket]

Ya I like the charger too, small, light weight and compact.
The 24v 60ah battery is the same physical size as a group 31 deep cycle.
If I find myself needing more run time I can simple add another 24v battery.

I want to keep the Lithium batteries stand alone, not connected to anything on the boat besides the troller.
House battery will run sonars, house battery will match the starting lead/acid battery.
I gotta go back and read the threads regarding a charger for those.

I am completely convinced that lifepoo battery bms electrons will mess with the dirtbike rectifier.

Not knocking the charging system, I will take 15hp at the shaft over the luxury of a 100 amp altenator all day long.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I’ve been running LiFePO4 batteries in my dirt bikes-which are fully electric/no kick starter-for years now with zero issues, and my boat for all of last season (house battery is a 100Ah LiFePO4).

The Reg/Rec on our boats looks exceedingly similar to the ones on my dirt bike, and as near as I can tell are 200 watt stators like my bikes. From all the research I did our PMG (permanent magnet generators) are very well suited to charging LiFePO4 batteries as they are at full output all the time and the regulator is shunting the unwanted voltage / current to ground. Before I understood how the PMG system worked I always wondered why the reg/rec on my bike was always hot to the touch when it was running. Where charging systems get in trouble with LiFePO4 batteries are the automotive style of variable magnetic field generators/alternators, this type of alternators’ reg/rec varies the magnetic field on the rotor to regulate output. While this system produces considerably more power than its PMG cousin most are not designed to run at maximum output continuously, and due to the very low resistance of LiFePO4 batteries the regulator on the VMF alternator will try to do just that, run at 100% output, whereas a lead acid battery and it’s higher resistance will have the regulator pulling the charge back after a high initial charge rate. There are VMF alternators that are thermally protected to reduce charge current when the alternator starts getting too hot, as well as alternators that are designed to run at 100% output. But, if you run a LiFePO4 house battery, the DVSR will have to be reconfigured to only operate while the engine is running, due to the fact that the resting voltage of the LiFePO4 is 13.6 VDC is above the 13.2 VDC close point of the DVSR‘s, I have mine set up in the “optional storage mode”. When I start my engines I wait until the start battery voltage climbs above the voltage of the LiFePO4 house battery before turning the rocker switch on allowing the DVSR to parallel the two. As a fyi I have a group 24 AGM start battery.



Using flooded lead acid batteries for your start and house batteries is great, no muss no fuss. I’d recommend running at least a 10A charger with a manual equalizing charge profile built in as the MinnKota PC chargers have. If you go with AGM start and house you can use a 25 A charger and don’t need a manual equalizing charge profile, equalizing charges are only for flooded lead acid batteries. I contacted Interstate batteries some time back about charging the group 24 AGM battery I have at 25 A and was told not a problem as long as the voltage doesn’t exceed 14.7 While I used MinnKota PC chargers successfully, I have upgraded to Victron Energy IP67 chargers for my trolling motor battery bank with great success, and will be replacing the two bank MinnKota PC MK 220 that I currently use for the start and house battery with the Victron IP 67 chargers, they’re a grip but perform exponentially better than the MinnKota chargers.




Trojan batteries has the same charging rates for AGM batteries.


With either set up the DVSR should be disabled during charging, several members here have set up their DVSR to be powered up by the switched side of one of their battery switches, start or house doesn’t matter, this way the DVSR is only active when the battery switch is on and allows fully independent charging of the two batteries.



Or you can lift the ground wire for the DVSR and accomplish the same thing. Or do nothing and run it in the OEM configuration like I did for a full season, but if you run it this way, the batteries will likely remain in parallel for quite some time until the start and house batteries resting voltage drops to 12.7 and then DVSR will open the contact breaking parallel, and you cannot run a successful equalizing charge with the DVSR active.

Sorry for the long dissertation on battery charging…I need to finish the missive on battery maintenance/charging and get it posted.

P.S. A 100 A alternator at full output is 1450 watts. 100A x 14.5volts=1,450W. 1,450W / 746 = 1.94HP.

 

[Bottom Bracket]

Nice write up! schematic is awesome, thank you.

I am resisting the urge to reduce weight by using 1 life poo to replace both start and house batteries for the weight savings.
So curmudgeon's view

The life poo batteries start spectacular fires. Seems the failure mode that starts these fires is undefined to the user.
I may be charging the troller outside.

1.94 horsepower output.
Still takes 15 hp to run an alternator.
The simplicity of Yamaha not having an alternator or p/s pump is refreshing.

PMG's are polarity sensitive. Or at least the one in my 65' HD sportser was. A BMS circuit board could possibly reverse polarity? I don't want to find out.

Coming from a sport cruiser with 3 batteries and a big perko switch the DVSR is interesting, not gonna mess with it at this point. Happy that the boat came with it.

I fully understand how 2 conventional batteries can "float" down together dying a slow lackluster death.

My current charging routine for my other stuff is a couple of Battery Tender trickle chargers. I only leave them on any battery for 24hrs most. This makes me visually inspect my electrical connections and electrolyte level
regularly.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

You are welcome! I like sharing the knowledge that I have learned with others!

The battery tender is not a “trickle charger” it is a smart charger in that it doesn’t constantly deliver a charging current, It charges the battery then drops into a maintenance mode where it will monitor voltage, when voltage drops too low it will then start charging. They also use a pulsing charge current to help clean the plates in a lead acid battery. 1.25 amps is not enough power to properly clean the plates and mix the electrolyte which leads to stratification of the electrolyte.. Having an on board charger with a plug on the boat is a great way to keep the batteries charged… super convenient.

Modern PMG’s are really alternators, in our case, 3 phase alternators and the reg / rect are full wave and put out the correct polarity without shifting. The BMS inside a LiFePO4 battery has no ability to swap polarity, it can however open the switch that will isolate the battery in the event of too much discharge / charge current or over temp. There is a quantum difference between these PMG’s and your 65 sportster. I think the old sportsters were the same tech that was being used on cars of that time which was a DC generator that used brushes and a slip ring.

Simply put, the DVSR on your boat looks at the voltage on both batteries, when one of them reaches 13.2 volts, E.G. the charging system has brought the voltage up to 13.2 volts, the DVSR closes the contact paralleling the start and house batteries. Once you are floating and the voltage drops to 12.7 volts the DVSR opens the contact breaking parallel and isolating the start battery from all loads so it is ready to go at full power when you want to start your engine. The charging leads from the charging system on your engine are connected to the start battery, in this way it is the battery that receives the charge first, thereby guaranteeing your start battery charges first before charging current is applied to the house battery via the DVSR switch. Removing the dedicated start / house batteries defeats the purpose of having a dedicated start battery so you don’t get stranded. I think @84rzv500r has been running LiFePO4 batteries for start and house now for some time.

The original LiPo lithium polymer batteries would start fires due to internal thermal runaway, the LiFePO4 Lithium Ferrous Oxide Phosphate batteries do not. This is an urban legend that still persists, and has been corrected in these forums in the past. But if you are not comfortable with them then by all means stick with the flooded lead acid batteries so it is not a worry in the back of your mind. This is after all, all about having fun with the least work possible!

Did some checking, I forgot that alternators are not 100% efficient, more like 80% efficient, it looks like it takes 2.3 hp per 100A of charge rate to run an alternator.

Hope you get your boat all together asap and we look forward to maiden voyage stories and pictures!

 

[Bottom Bracket]

I like my battery tenders, when the light turns green I'm good to go.

Not going to mess with the electrical system, however in the lighter faster camp 1 life poo 12v 100 battery s/b able to cover the
duties of 2 lead acid 12v starting batteries.
so ditch house battery replace start battery with life poo and a real switch, ditch the dvsr and associated gack,
lighter faster, better fuel burn...

I visited the 787 test bird that almost burned to the ground, a lot of smart engineers were scratching their heads on that one.
I am not convinced that the latest lifepoo4 is safer than a L/A, agm.

2 years ago a prius pulled off of highway 87, burst in to flames and burned some really fun desert areas.

Ford confirms battery fire caused F-150 Lightning production stoppage

Production of the Ford F-150 Lightning has been suspended for several weeks due to a fire that occurred in one of the electric trucks before it was shipped to a dealer.

www.foxbusiness.com

Ford confirms battery fire caused F-150 Lightning production stoppage

The engineering sez impossible for a Lifepo4 to catch fire, real world sez that more development is needed.

Yes I exaggerated the hp requirements for an altenator, slightly...

 

[Bottom Bracket]

Got a call from Joe at Complete Marine.
Good chance boat will be finished this week.
All parts and pieces are in.
Might be done this week.

 

[Bottom Bracket]

Made it home! 17 months from order date.
Complete Marine in Phoenix did an excellent job getting this done.
Boat is at our valley home for now, when it gets toasty it will move to the north house.

 

[VitaminSea]

Congratulations on getting your boat home. Like the color.
Just looking to understand - it shipped with a Bimini and you had the T-Top added? When I look at the online configuration tool, it looks like the 195 comes with a T-Top.