Coronavirus

[AJACHIM]

I can understand why that may be a consideration. But I can assure you that surgical or cloth masks do not make it so you accumulate CO2. This has been proven with direct measurements. N95 masks on the other hand may be a different issue. The restriction of air flow on these masks may be enough to cause significant discomfort on its own.

as someone who where’s a mask for 12 hours a day in the hospital I humbly disagree on the co2 accumulation. I’m nauseous and feel like crap from it

 

[BeauSko]

your argument for smokers and abortions is flawed. Neither may potentially affect my health that in a week or two I wind up vented? Are they both contagious and possibly fatal in 2 weeks? Please advise. As you are currently in the military, do you consider covid biological warfare? Was wanting your perspective as an active military member. My staff and I received a letter written by a group of Vietnam Veterans that offered encouragement for those on the front lines of covid. I will see if I can get that on this post. Many correlations with what they went through and healthcare members on the front line today. Risking our lives, Many are dying, an invisible enemy, supplies and equipment are inadequate or short supply, long hours, separation, depression essentially a full spectrum of emotions experienced in war, lack of public approval. Like you, we volunteered so mutual respect.

Uhhh...480,000 deaths per year caused by smoking, another 41,000 die from secondhand smoke...that may not potentially affect your health? Explain. As for abortion, my point to tabbibus was that he said it, “actively causes harm to others.” So, I was curious as to why he is so passionate about one thing that “actively causes harm to others,” and not another.

As for biological warfare...didn’t the media tell us this started from an infected bat?

The letter from the Vietnam Vets...what is your point? Are you attempting to pull at my emotions and detract anyone else who reads this from the actual argument. Is it the fact that they are Vietnam Vets and they thanked you supposed to prove a point? Typical attempt at emotional persuasion that has absolutely nothing to do with any of my points. Completely irrelevant to my argument. If it has any bearing, which it doesn’t, I think our Veterans (especially WWII and Vietnam) were, and are, some of the most courageous people on the planet.

Did I ever say anything about what health care workers are going through? No. In fact, I thanked the dude for doing what he did despite his extreme opposition to my belief. And I will do the same for you, so thank you.

As for the sign, again, what is your point? Did I ever once complain about not being served at a business for not wearing a mask? No. Did I ever once give you the impression that I have ever “screamed at employees” or claimed that doing so would make me a patriot? No. Did I ever say anything about a business not having the right to deny someone service? No. I resent the fact that you would even post that in a reply to my comments. If by posting that sign your are attempting to call me an asshole without directly calling me an asshole, thank you.

 

[Robconn]

Not sure why you are choosing to take that tone with me. I’m respectful conversing with you? No? And Yes, Smoking kills, and the number is significant. but you don’t die of second hand smoke in a matter of a few weeks. Can you acknowledge that or are we done here?

 

[BeauSko]

Not sure why you are choosing to take that tone with me. I’m respectful conversing with you? No? And Yes, Smoking kills, and the number is significant. but you don’t die of second hand smoke in a matter of a few weeks. Can you acknowledge that or are we done here?

Sorry, my reply didn’t post correctly:

So you’re saying because people “can” die from COVID as quick as two weeks that we should ignore the significance of secondhand smoke because it takes longer to kill someone? Please tell me that’s not where you’re going with this

 

[BeauSko]

Not sure why you are choosing to take that tone with me. I’m respectful conversing with you? No? And Yes, Smoking kills, and the number is significant. but you don’t die of second hand smoke in a matter of a few weeks. Can you acknowledge that or are we done here?

Not sure what “tone” you are referring to, I am simply defending my stance. I welcome all debate.

 

[Dixie Highway]

We are now doing north of 700,000 tests per day, just over 750,000 in the last 24 hours, and did more than 800,000 once in the last week.
Source = The COVID Tracking Project (screenshot from their Twitter feed today)

View attachment 126122

That’s amazing, and to be honest further validates my belief we are testing more than any other nation by magnitudes.

Upon checking we are not only doing more total tests we are testing more per capita according to my boy Johnny Hopkins.

 

[Rockfords Fosgate]

Interesting read from a Dr. in England (Surrey). link

"I genuinely believe that many death certificates, especially amongst the older 65+ demographic have been fraudulently completed so as to be counted as Covid-19 deaths when in reality Covid-19 complications did not cause the death."

 

[Rockfords Fosgate]

Has anyone every wondered WHY the elderly are disproportionally affected? If IL-6 is a major factor, there is a whole class of medications in this space for rheumatoid arthritis. Hmm...

A study released yesterday indicates the following;

"Cytomegalovirus (CMV) seroprevalence approaches 80% in the elderly. CMV has been shown to accelerate immune ageing by affecting peripheral blood T cell phenotypes and increasing inflammatory mediated cytokines such as IL-6. The elderly with pre-existing but clinically silent CMV infection may therefore be particularly susceptible to severe Covid-19 disease and succumb to a cytokine storm which may have been promoted by CMV. "

 

[Robconn]

Sorry, my reply didn’t post correctly:

So you’re saying because people “can” die from COVID as quick as two weeks that we should ignore the significance of secondhand smoke because it takes longer to kill someone? Please tell me that’s not where you’re going with this

No, those were not my words

Sorry, my reply didn’t post correctly:

So you’re saying because people “can” die from COVID as quick as two weeks that we should ignore the significance of secondhand smoke because it takes longer to kill someone? Please tell me that’s not where you’re going with this

I never said anything about ignoring the significance of second hand smoke, my point was smoking is not contagious, is not a virus, and does not cause me to have such a quick demise. Abortions... nothing quicker of a demise so you got us beat on that one.

 

[Rockfords Fosgate]

Depending on whose facts you want to cite, second hand smoke is attributed to 500k-1.2M premature deaths per year. Covid (again whose facts do you want to use) is currently attributed to 588k deaths so far.

 

[Dean P]

Here we are today...

 

[Murf'n'surf]

We are now doing north of 700,000 tests per day, just over 750,000 in the last 24 hours, and did more than 800,000 once in the last week.
Source = The COVID Tracking Project (screenshot from their Twitter feed today)

View attachment 126122

If I am understanding this correctly.....by the 3rd wave, deaths will be extremely low..

 

[GTBRMC]

If I am understanding this correctly.....by the 3rd wave, deaths will be extremely low..

That may well be the case. I am watching ratios of cases vs hospitalizations vs deaths over time in different US locations carefully. With the lagging effect (+/- 1 to 2.5 weeks from exposure to hospitalization for those that will get it severely, +/- 2 weeks from hospitalization to death for those that will not make it out alive), and the recent very large uptick in diagnosed cases over the last 2 to 3 weeks, it is a bit early to draw any conclusions. The facts win over the spin (regardless of source) with me.

 

[Robconn]

Depending on whose facts you want to cite, second hand smoke is attributed to 500k-1.2M premature deaths per year. Covid (again whose facts do you want to use) is currently attributed to 588k deaths so far.

First, let me say...you're welcome. I am part of the 1% of the population that has (and continues to serve) in the United States military that fought for the right for you to become a US citizen...you picked the greatest country in the world, so thumbs up to you. I don't want/need praise, I'm just a man doing my job. So, when I hear comments like that, yes, it fires me up. I didn't deploy all around the world for someone to tell me what I can and cannot do with my body.

Secondly, I never said you were despicable. I said, "“So called love for freedom?” One of the most despicable, un-American comments I’ve ever heard in my life." Don't twist my words.

Third, no one will ever have to HIDE behind freedom...to even suggest that shows me that you have absolutely no idea what that word truly means.

Now, let me ask you...what makes you think that my (or anyone's) not wearing a mask, "actively does something that will cause harm to others" or shows a "complete disregard of some for the well-being of others?" I think you mistyped there and meant to say, "complete disregard for the well-being of others?" Either way, please explain.

Let me ask you something else...are you against abortion, or smoking? Because both "actively cause harm to others." When you see someone on the street smoking, do you ask them to stop because it will harm you? If not, why not? If you are against abortion, do you passionately profess your opposition to it every time a woman goes into an abortion clinic? If not, why not. There is no difference.

Do you think the government is all-knowing and all-powerful? If so, you are wrong.

If you have a fear of being in public with others, you have every right to stay home. I choose to live my life as I did before this whole thing started and will continue to do so. If you want to wear a mask, that is absolutely your right. If I do not want to wear a mask, that is absolutely my right.

One last thing, I noticed you said things such as "our ER." I assume you are in the medical profession...doctor, nurse? Whatever it is, thank you for doing what you do. I find that caring for others is one of the noblest professions a human being can do.

so as I understand your reply to tabbius, you disagree a reason for not wearing a mask is due to “so called love for freedom?” Sounds pretty straight forward you object base on your lengthy response. You further state you are of the 1% of population in an active military role. Correct? , a “ man just doing his job” and “got all fired up” due to his comment, “so called love for freedom” , and the fact that your deployments in the military contributes you to have a stronger conviction that no one can “ tell me what can and cannot do with my body.” That’s freedom right there! In its purist form. But Isn’t that a very instance to what tabbius was referring to in the first place? Your reaction gives some truth to his statement. Your open to debate from all? You may have taken offense to his statements but the way you replied furthers his statement. And you were antagonist towards him. Just an observation. I don’t doubt you’re American values are strong. That’s what pulls us together. Not apart. Further we would be negligent to not recommend a mask in public. We took an oath like you.

 

[Dixie Highway]

I guess the question here is “do you have to love freedom to exercise it?” There are conflicts of freedom all over the place, does one person’s freedom to CHOOSE not to wear a mask trump another persons freedom to CHOOSE not to go somewhere masks aren’t required (especially if they are part of a vulnerable population)? Is it polite to wear a mask? Probably. Is it polite to wash your hands after using the restroom? Probably. Do I label someone that doesn’t do these things an a$$hole? No, because that makes me a prick with a superiority complex. Can anyone tell me whether washing my hands in the restroom helps tame the spread of disease more than wearing a mask? So which one is more harmful? These questions all must be answered before jumping to call someone a name for expressing an opinion. The onus is on each of us to protect ourselves as we deem necessary, go out if you want to but assess your level of risk beforehand. What we are seeing now amounts to nearly class warfare, by accident or design.

 

[Rockfords Fosgate]

Do Lockdowns Work? Mounting Evidence Says No - food for thought - it's a pretty good read.

In The Lancet, Swedish infectious disease clinician (and World Health Organization (WHO) advisor) Johan Giesecke concluded:

It has become clear that a hard lockdown does not protect old and frail people living in care homes—a population the lockdown was designed to protect. Neither does it decrease mortality from COVID-19, which is evident when comparing the UK's experience with that of other European countries.

At best, lockdowns push cases into the future, they do not lower total deaths. Gieseck continues:

Measures to flatten the curve might have an effect, but a lockdown only pushes the severe cases into the future—it will not prevent them. Admittedly, countries have managed to slow down spread so as not to overburden health-care systems, and, yes, effective drugs that save lives might soon be developed, but this pandemic is swift, and those drugs have to be developed, tested, and marketed quickly. Much hope is put in vaccines, but they will take time, and with the unclear protective immunological response to infection, it is not certain that vaccines will be very effective.

 

[BeauSko]

so as I understand your reply to tabbius, you disagree a reason for not wearing a mask is due to “so called love for freedom?” Sounds pretty straight forward you object base on your lengthy response. You further state you are of the 1% of population in an active military role. Correct? , a “ man just doing his job” and “got all fired up” due to his comment, “so called love for freedom” , and the fact that your deployments in the military contributes you to have a stronger conviction that no one can “ tell me what can and cannot do with my body.” That’s freedom right there! In its purist form. But Isn’t that a very instance to what tabbius was referring to in the first place? Your reaction gives some truth to his statement. Your open to debate from all? You may have taken offense to his statements but the way you replied furthers his statement. And you were antagonist towards him. Just an observation. I don’t doubt you’re American values are strong. That’s what pulls us together. Not apart. Further we would be negligent to not recommend a mask in public. We took an oath like you.

No. There are many reasons I disagree with wearing a mask. My original comment to him was his wording, “so called.” There is no such things as “so called“ freedom. My original comment didn’t even mention having to wear a mask. It was the comment itself.

I’m also trying to understand why people who wear masks have such hostility towards those who don’t. I have zero problem with anyone who wears a mask, not one bit, no hostility. I asked him to explain how not wearing a mask actively causes harm to others. He either doesn’t know or chose not to answer.

I became defensive from his response to me and his unfounded assumptions why I, or anyone else, choose not to wear a mask...”hiding behind freedom as an excuse to not give a crap about others and not wear a mask, ...”Our freedom in this country does not entitle you to actively do something that will cause harm to others. That’s using your free will to be an asshole.“

So, he assumed I don’t give a crap about others, that my not doing so actively harms others, and that I am using free will to be an asshole.” You better believe I will passionately defend myself when someone comes at me like that.

Furthermore, in your defense of him, you brought in informational irrelevant to the debate and attempted to use emotional persuasion to detract from the facts. Then of course the sign.

I don’t think you guys are assholes and I wouldn’t use a forum to do so even if I believed it. Just pure defense of my stance, that’s all.

 

[Rockfords Fosgate]

I’m also trying to understand why people who wear masks have such hostility towards those who don’t. I have zero problem with anyone who wears a mask, not one bit, no hostility. I asked him to explain how not wearing a mask actively causes harm to others. He either doesn’t know or chose not to answer.

I attempted to address this in my post 1641. Before people get too self-righteous about calling people out for not wearing a mask, I hope they do some self-reflection about their own actions.

 

[Robconn]

I appreciate your response. Thank you for explaining your point further. My intent writing about the vets was not an attempt to distract or pull at heart strings. More of a statement that we are similar than distant. But yes, probably not the most appropriate example to use. The sign was not aimed at you just related to the topic. I saw it on Reddit. I apologize for the inappropriate posting. As for hostilities that occur, trying to grasp the origins of, who knows, did some experience loss?, do one have co- morbidities? Scared?, do some attribute their economic situation to it? I can’t answer for them. I’m sure there is a multitude of experiences that affect people’s attitudes. For me, it’s my proximity to ground zero covid. But this forum has open up perspectives that have help me deal with it personally, I thank each and everyone who is part of this discussion.

 

[Robconn]

I attempted to address this in my post 1641. Before people get too self-righteous about calling people out for not wearing a mask, I hope they do some self-reflection about their own actions.

Your statements certainly hold true when examining human nature. There are ideals and in contrast are harsh realities. All good points.