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Does anyone know of a TR-1 engine failure?

Have you ever heard of a TR-1 engine failure?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Was this failure in a Yamaha boat?

  • Was this failure in a Yamaha jet ski / wave runner?

  • Don’t know

  • Owner caused the failure? Lack of maint, improper maint, overheating

  • Engine failed on its own?


Results are only viewable after voting.

FSH 210 Sport

Jetboaters Admiral
Messages
6,970
Reaction score
8,345
Points
482
Location
Tranquility Base
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2020
Boat Model
FSH Sport
Boat Length
21
As part of my research into a mild TR-1 engine build to try and reduce the amount of high density altitude horsepower loss, I was talking to a person yesterday that deals with a lot of these engines, and made it sound like the TR-1 motors fail a lot. I only recall seeing one post on this site where TR-1 engines failed, and that was due to the operator overheating the engines on the order of 20 times (it was a lot, not sure if it was 20, could be more or less) in a very short period of time, and Yamaha refused to warranty the engines due to the event log in the ECU’s showing all the overheats.

In addition to the poll questions, if you know what happened to the engine, I would appreciate it if you could write down what you know. I‘ll share what I learned from from this person after / if there are any responses to this poll, just want to see if our group has any experiences.

Thank you for your responses..
 
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I haven't heard of it. They get beat to death in rental skis.
 
That was my impression as well. Thank you for our input.

I guess beat to death is a bad phrase lol you know what I meant though! From my understanding those skis see 1000+ hours a year.
 
If there were any serious issues with these engines, Yamaha would have moved to another option years ago.

And as an engine builder first, I would trust their engines for reliability over their hulls, electronics etc first. As much as many will badmouth Yamaha for their boats, sleds, bikes, atv's, you very rarely hear any badness about the engines. And if you do from a mechanic, they would have lost all credibility with me instantly.
 
I guess beat to death is a bad phrase lol you know what I meant though! From my understanding those skis see 1000+ hours a year.

Right on! Somewhere I had seen a report of a guy who several rental skis with the TR-1 engines that had roughly 4400 hours with no issues, regular maintenance and were still running strong with no oil usage.
 
If there were any serious issues with these engines, Yamaha would have moved to another option years ago.

And as an engine builder first, I would trust their engines for reliability over their hulls, electronics etc first. As much as many will badmouth Yamaha for their boats, sleds, bikes, atv's, you very rarely hear any badness about the engines. And if you do from a mechanic, they would have lost all credibility with me instantly.
The only bad thing I have heard about their engines were the first generation four stroke outboards, on some of the engines there was corrosion on the internal exhaust gas passage. There was a retro kit available.
 
Very few issues with any of my Yamaha motors in the past. Nothing to mention about the (2) MR-1's other than a worry about the ecu getting wet, injectors flooding cylinders. We have (4) Yamaha OB's currently, a 1985 115hp 2-stroke, carbs, Whaler, still runs great. (2) 2018 Yamaha 9.9's long shaft, HT, Catamaran, and a Yamaha 6hp, dinghy motor. Our Zodiac dinghy has a 15hp Mercury. The motors are reliable, but "doo doo" occurs now and then if/when they are not maintained properly. I do like that the Yamaha's have hose connections for flushing, motor off, where with the Mercury, you need to use the muffs or run in a clean trash can. I had other issues with the Yamaha AR230 boat design center of gravity, water flowing forward to the bow/ski locker drain to bilge, instead of aft to scupper, while at rest in the water.
 
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Okay looks like 12 votes is it so far.. so here is what the guy in fla who deals with these engines told me.

He said the TR-1 engine is very prone to failures, most of which are due to hydro locking from improper flushing or induction of engine oil. Apparently when a ski with a TR-1 is turned upside down engine oil gets up into the head, and when the ski is righted if the operator just starts the engine and punches it, excessive oil flow through the PCV will flow oil into the induction system and hydro lock the engine with oil. I find that a bit interesting since these engines are dry sump. He did also mention that Yamaha addressed this in later models by making a channel in the head that allowed this excess oil to flow back down to the bottom end. He also said that people have not checked the oil properly, overfilled the sump and hydro locked the engine with oil that way as well.

He said he had pallets of bad engines. When I asked him what percentage of those engines were out of jet skis or boats, he said 90% of the failed engines were out of skis. There was other damage to the ski motors which he attributed to jumping the skis and leaving the throttle pinned then shock loading the engine and occasionally there were crank issues.

I do not doubt this man had lots of used engines, and used ones in decent condition can be had for $3500 with a core, or $4000 with a core. Engines with a cylinder or two with bad compression can be had for $2500 with no core.

I’m going to attribute this guys view about these engines to anyone who is on the receiving end of problems, much like a lot of people take to the net to ask about issues they are having or to trash a product they are not happy with. Rarely do you see people taking to the net just to talk about how great something is. And there are so many variables that we do not know about, maintenance, out right abuse like a rental, how the engines were used and so on. When I mentioned that I had seen a report from a guy who rented skis with these engines and they were running strong at 4400, thats correct, four thousand four hundred hours, with nothing more than routing maintenance he said the highest he had seen was 2600 hours.

Anyway, I said at the beginning of this thread I would share what that guy had told me so there it is.

What I had been thinking about doing was finding a couple of decent TR-1 engines, go through them, then build them up with a stroker crank, high compression pistons, Carrillo rods, head work, cams and a tune to get the high altitude performance up.. we shall see how this all works out.
 
Have you considered installing a pair of MR-1s?

No. The only thing I thought of as far as that goes is the 1.8’s but I do not think the engine bay is big enough, and the MR-1’s are even bigger, even if it was I wouldn’t consider that. The MR-1 engines are going away as are the 1.8’s with the introduction of the 1.9 engines.

As it is, this project is testing my comfort zone limits, but my friend who has done a lot of this sort of thing is what is keeping me interested. While my boats‘ power, at altitude in the summertime, 27% loss =‘s 81 hp per engine instead of 111 at sea level is wanting I don’t want to do something shortens the life span of the engines or makes them unreliable, just bringing the power up closer to stock sea level power at altitude isn’t going to stress the system greater than the oem configuration. Installing the BC cams is about a $1500 per engine project without a tune, and is not something wildly out of the ordinary for this engine as the Viper engine uses even more aggressive cams, but it will need more fuel to realize full potential of the cams, 15% increase with only the cams and 25% with more fuel at sea level. If I can get an auto tuner for this project that would be outstanding, otherwise it’s the RIVA solution as far as adding fuel.

It’s tempting to just go up to the 222 FSH and it’s 400 hp with the 1.9 engines, but that boat looks to be a lot harder to get the top off of so I can get it in my heated shop, could it stay outside in the winter? Sure it could, but it’s pretty nice being able to work on the boat in a heated shop in winter. And there’s the additional expense, if I’m going to upgrade then I’d probably sell my boat as is sans the LFP batteries and fit the new boat with a next gen Humminbird Apex MFD and the brushless MinnKota trolling motor which is $5K alone.

The guy I spoke to in FLA also said to just remove the ribbon and vent the crankcase outside and that would give 10 hp. That sounds like easy power right? But I want to see a dyno chart with that info before I do all that work. Removing hot, oxygen depleted gas from the induction system would definitely help increase the pounds of air reaching the combustion chamber, as well as the MAP sensor seeing denser air and adding more fuel accordingly. That sounds like something I could test relatively easy this coming summer. This guy also said to disconnect the battery to make the ECU recalibrate after doing those mods, sensible but not necessary, in my experience with open loop power sports engines all that is necessary is to start the engine and let it idle for 10 mins and they’ll recalibrate themselves. Ever had your engine not start well cold ? That’s because the system was still at the same setting from the last time you ran it, let it idle for a while and it will start and run great once the system recalibrates itself. If I were to do the ribbon delete I’d source a couple of used intake manifolds to do it to as it “appears” the ribbon is molded into the manifold and it would require destroying the ribbon to get it out, if anyone knows differently please shout out. When I talked to RIVA a couple years back I asked about deleting the ribbon, after reading about it here, and that person I talked to said that would not yield worthwhile gains in my engines. I’m old and experienced enough to have tried some of those simple tricks and actually had those tricks become a negative, like using K&N air filters on a car for instance, I can link you a test on them if you want see it. Using K&N air filters on a boat, especially our boats did yield a small gain in performance, in my case 150-200 rpm, essentially the same as running with no air filter.

@buckbuck I‘ll ask that guy about the head design when I call him to ask about buying intake manifolds for my engines.
 
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I just learned I was using the wrong term to describe what I was thinking, I was thinking volumetric efficiency but was using the term stochiomatic.. sorry for the confusion.
 
@FSH 210 Sport Please ask your friend what year Yamaha changed the head design. I am considering a VX waverunner and would like to limit the search to the better engine.

@buckbuck according to this guy the change to the head was in 2018 or 2019, there is an L shaped boss on the side of the head that goes back to the oil tank. Thats the best I can do for right now..
 
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