FSH 25x side scan transducer location

[TeenGee]

@MilesPrower
Where did you finally mount your transom-mount Active Imaging 3-in-1 transducer?
What was the part number?
Do you have pictures?

 

[MilesPrower]

Photo attached. I had to run outside in-between thunderstorms right now... so not the best photo:



The port-side Active Imaging 3-in-1 Transducer is mounted to a small plate of HDPE that's screwed into the transom. The starboard transducer is mounted to a much bigger HDPE plate (which isn't visible in this photo), because I repositioned the starboard transducer many times before settling on its final position. I added the port-side transducer afterward.

The twin transducer locations are a definite compromise, and the criteria and conditions that led me to this compromise are as follows:

→ I sight-fish in very skinny water as often as I do deeper water — skinny enough that I sometimes pole my boat over shoals if I think my trolling motor will spook the fish. Because I have the same transducer on both of my fishing kayaks, I knew that with the transducer mounted close to the surface of the water, I can get reliable imaging even out to 30 ft to each side at 2 ft depth. Therefore, I wanted to keep the transducers close to the waterline.

→ On the other hand, in deeper water, it's nice to have the transducers below the troughs of any waves, so I didn't want the transducers too close to the waterline.

→ I keep this boat on a lift. The lift's bunks are angled to keep the bow proud, to encourage drainage during heavy rainstorms. (As you can see, I also pull the drain plug when the boat is on the lift.) Because of the bunks' angle, when I'm driving the boat onto the lift, the bow of the boat touches the bunks first, and the back of the boat can still be half a foot above the bunk. If the boat swings, I don't want the bunks to rip the transducers off.

→ I don't care about losing side-scan when I'm on plane, and I wanted to minimize drag from the transducers at speed. Sidescan is something I use when I'm actively searching for fish at trolling speeds or less. Meanwhile, the boat's thru-hull HDI transducer holds bottom no prob — no matter the speed or attitude of the boat. I have my MFDs configured to display depth and down-scan using the HDI transducer at all times, while the two AI transducers handle side/structure-scan when I'm off plane.

I've had these transducers since I've had my boat — for a few years now. The ones on my kayaks are even older. If I were installing a brand new system today, I'd go with the new Active Imaging HD transducers connected to a networked S3100 sonar module:

ActiveImaging HD™ 3-in-1 FishReveal Transducer | Lowrance USA

Step up to the ultimate fishfinding clarity with new, high-definition (up to 1.2MHz) Active Imaging™ HD sonar.

www.lowrance.com

S3100 Sonar Module | Lowrance USA

The Lowrance® S3100 sonar module brings support for high-definition Active Imaging™ HD sonar to Elite FS, HDS Carbon and HDS LIVE displays, plus support for the FishReveal SideScan view.

www.lowrance.com

The S3100 module has two sonar ports. I'd run the boat's thru-hull on one port, and I'd run two AI HD transducers via a Y-cable on the other port.

If you like the location of the Garmin transducers on your 210 FSH, you might want to consider doing something similar on your Sport H. Or perhaps you could 3D-print (using PETG+CF) an angled "foot" to surface-mount the transducers to the ride plates of the Sport H.

On a tangential note — I wish I had gotten 9×9 trim tabs instead of the 9×12 I installed. The 9×12 have way more authority than I ever need. I never deploy them over 50%. I also wish that I had mounted them angled higher when they're not deployed. I followed the directions and kept their trailing edge 1/2'' above the plane of the hull (while the leading edge is 1/4'' above the plane of the hull). A full inch or more for the trailing edge would've been a better choice, because the tabs in their current rest position definitely increase the turning radius when the boat is leaned over, on plane.

 

[TeenGee]

Thanks.
Do you know the part number for the Y-Cable?

 

[MilesPrower]

Do you know the part number for the Y-Cable?

LSS HD Y Cable Service Replacement | Accessory | Lowrance | Lowrance USA

The LSS HD Y Cable Service Replacement from Lowrance. See our full range of Accessories and the latest Marine Electronics. Shop Online Today.

www.lowrance.com

When I went looking a couple years ago, I could only find it at European and Asian online vendors. Therefore, I just spliced my own... which was a good excuse for me to just cut off the big 9-pin connectors at the ends of both transducer cables and remove all the slack cabling. Pulling unterminated cables is 10× easier than trying to get big connectors into firewall holes, past rigid hoses, and through wire conduit.

As I mentioned earlier, I started with a single transducer, and that one I wired conventionally, while I experimented with position. What a PITA it was to get that transducer's connector to the helm. When I wired the second transducer, I also wired my trim tabs, and that job involved pulling three cables at once — two tabs and the second transducer. Because I cut off the 9-pin on that transducer, and the trim-tab wiring was unterminated, pulling all three cables involved taping them together... and instead of pulling, I easily pushed the taped bundle straight through the stern firewall, engine compartment conduit, and out through the second firewall into the fuel tank void — all in one go. No actual pulling involved!

Anyway... you almost got me going on another tangential derailment. ?

If you end up going the Simrad/Lowrance route, and you need help with the Y-splice, give me a holler, and I can send you a list of the parts I used — about $25 worth. Once you have all the parts on hand, it'll take you an hour at most to splice the cabling.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Photo attached. I had to run outside in-between thunderstorms right now... so not the best photo:

View attachment 219054

The port-side Active Imaging 3-in-1 Transducer is mounted to a small plate of HDPE that's screwed into the transom. The starboard transducer is mounted to a much bigger HDPE plate (which isn't visible in this photo), because I repositioned the starboard transducer many times before settling on its final position. I added the port-side transducer afterward.

The twin transducer locations are a definite compromise, and the criteria and conditions that led me to this compromise are as follows:

→ I sight-fish in very skinny water as often as I do deeper water — skinny enough that I sometimes pole my boat over shoals if I think my trolling motor will spook the fish. Because I have the same transducer on both of my fishing kayaks, I knew that with the transducer mounted close to the surface of the water, I can get reliable imaging even out to 30 ft to each side at 2 ft depth. Therefore, I wanted to keep the transducers close to the waterline.

→ On the other hand, in deeper water, it's nice to have the transducers below the troughs of any waves, so I didn't want the transducers too close to the waterline.

→ I keep this boat on a lift. The lift's bunks are angled to keep the bow proud, to encourage drainage during heavy rainstorms. (As you can see, I also pull the drain plug when the boat is on the lift.) Because of the bunks' angle, when I'm driving the boat onto the lift, the bow of the boat touches the bunks first, and the back of the boat can still be half a foot above the bunk. If the boat swings, I don't want the bunks to rip the transducers off.

→ I don't care about losing side-scan when I'm on plane, and I wanted to minimize drag from the transducers at speed. Sidescan is something I use when I'm actively searching for fish at trolling speeds or less. Meanwhile, the boat's thru-hull HDI transducer holds bottom no prob — no matter the speed or attitude of the boat. I have my MFDs configured to display depth and down-scan using the HDI transducer at all times, while the two AI transducers handle side/structure-scan when I'm off plane.

I've had these transducers since I've had my boat — for a few years now. The ones on my kayaks are even older. If I were installing a brand new system today, I'd go with the new Active Imaging HD transducers connected to a networked S3100 sonar module:

ActiveImaging HD™ 3-in-1 FishReveal Transducer | Lowrance USA

Step up to the ultimate fishfinding clarity with new, high-definition (up to 1.2MHz) Active Imaging™ HD sonar.

www.lowrance.com

S3100 Sonar Module | Lowrance USA

The Lowrance® S3100 sonar module brings support for high-definition Active Imaging™ HD sonar to Elite FS, HDS Carbon and HDS LIVE displays, plus support for the FishReveal SideScan view.

www.lowrance.com

The S3100 module has two sonar ports. I'd run the boat's thru-hull on one port, and I'd run two AI HD transducers via a Y-cable on the other port.

If you like the location of the Garmin transducers on your 210 FSH, you might want to consider doing something similar on your Sport H. Or perhaps you could 3D-print (using PETG+CF) an angled "foot" to surface-mount the transducers to the ride plates of the Sport H.

On a tangential note — I wish I had gotten 9×9 trim tabs instead of the 9×12 I installed. The 9×12 have way more authority than I ever need. I never deploy them over 50%. I also wish that I had mounted them angled higher when they're not deployed. I followed the directions and kept their trailing edge 1/2'' above the plane of the hull (while the leading edge is 1/4'' above the plane of the hull). A full inch or more for the trailing edge would've been a better choice, because the tabs in their current rest position definitely increase the turning radius when the boat is leaned over, on plane.

Dude! What an awesome post! Love the detail about how you arrived at the transducer location, the side and down imaging qualities and I love the transducer location keeping the bottom clean without anything hanging down under the ride plates.

As well, I have not seen anyone talk about the reduction in roll into a turn due to installing trim tabs!

Well done!

 

[TeenGee]

@MilesPrower
I assume you just reused one of the 9 pin connectors from the transducer and wired the 2 transducers to the single connector.
Please post the pin-outs for wiring the 2 side scan transducers to a single 9 pin connector.

 

[MilesPrower]

The F/FTP cable has a total of 10 conductors inside of it. The 22 AWG conductors are grouped in 4 twisted pairs, with a single black conductor for a common ground that is electrically connected at both ends to the non-insulated drain conductor, as well as to all of the foil shields. (Each pair is shielded, and there's an overall shield for the whole bundle.)

If you consider that the default "direction" for the transducer is wire-coming-out-of-the-nose of the transducer, then the following 3 twisted pairs correspond to the differential signaling for left, down, and right scans:

◄ Left: Red/Green
▼ Down: White/Yellow
► Right: Blue/Pink

The 4th twisted pair handles two individual signals:

? Temperature: Grey
? Transmitter ID: Brown

And as mentioned earlier, the black, drain, and shields are all electrically the same:

? Ground: Black, Drain, Foil

Assuming you are connecting a single MFD to one Port transducer and one Strbd transducer, tie the following together:

◄ MFD Red ↔ Port Red
◄ MFD Green ↔ Port Green

▼ MFD White ↔ Port White ↔ Strbd White (all 3 together)
▼ MFD Yellow ↔ Port Yellow ↔ Strbd Yellow (all 3 together)

► MFD Blue ↔ Strbd Blue
► MFD Pink ↔ Strbd Pink

? MFD Grey ↔ Port or Strbd Grey (choose one only)

? MFD Brown ↔ Port or Strbd Brown (choose one only)

? MFD Black ↔ Port Black ↔ Strbd Black (all 3 together)

Keep in mind that if you decide to mount your transducers with the cables coming out their back, you'll want the transducer I'm labeling «Port» on the starboard side of your hull, and vice-versa... and then swap left/right on the MFD.

For connecting the conductors together, these are my favorite crimps for splicing small-gauge wire:

IDEAL Insulation Displacement Wire Connectors (25-Pack) 85-925 - The Home Depot

Traditionally used in landline telephone applications, these IDC splice connectors can be used to splice, tap or repair damaged many types of low voltage conductors in voice and data applications. The

www.homedepot.com

IDEAL Yellow IDC Connectors (25 per Pack) 85-950 - The Home Depot

Traditionally used in landline telephone applications, these IDC splice connectors can be used to splice or repair damaged low voltage conductors in voice and data applications. The IDEAL Yellow IDC Connectors

www.homedepot.com

No need to strip individual conductors, and no heat-shrinking afterwards. They're tinned, and they're filled with deox oil. Therefore, I've had no issues with them on my saltwater boats. You can also buy them at Lowe's or on Amazon.

I use these two IP68 waterproof junction boxes manufactured by Intertek for various things on my boats. You can find them under various no-name brands on Amazon:

Junction Box Outdoor Waterproof IP68 3 Way
Smartsails 2pcs Waterproof Outdoor External 2 Way lP68

Whichever box you use, you can throw its terminal block into your parts bin, because you won't need it. Replace the four screws with stainless if the box will be submerged or subject to saltwater spray. I've had a couple of these junction boxes inside my helm closet for a few years, and I didn't bother replacing the screws — so far no rust. On my kayaks, these junction boxes have stainless screws.

 

[MilesPrower]

Also, I would recommend running both transducer cables to the helm closet and installing the splice inside the closet... vs. doing the splice under the cleanout tray. Pulling (pushing) the cables to the closet will be easy with their terminators cut off, and you'll be way more comfortable sitting inside the shade of the helm closet while you crimp the cables.

When I completed this project, none of the pinout charts I found online were correct, and Lowrance customer support wasn't helpful, so I ended up using my portable scope and connecting/disconnecting various pairs to figure out the correct wiring... while my boat was on the water and I was waving my fish-landing net underneath the transducers! ?

 

[TeenGee]

@MilesPrower
I mounted the AI 3-in-1 transducers. I ordered a Y-Cable. I ran with 1 transducer connected to the NSX. I was pleased with the performance of the side scan. I have a couple of gripes.
Side scan is disabled when CHIRP is active.
The specs say that Traditional sonar is good up to 55mph. Mine quits working at 35mph.
In less than 1 foot of water the depth indication goes to ----.
Are you having any of these issues?
Do you have any recommendations?
Last gripe, I didn't have any of these problems with the Garmin.

 

[AlpharettaRK]

@TeenGee gee I like the way your install looks. This is a nearish term project for me, can't decide if better to mess with 2 transducers or an extended mount with 1 transducer off the ride plate. And I have measured and cogitated every which way (even looked at mounting to the underwater seat brackets) and don't have a solution I love. Yours looks as good as any.
Cheers

 

[TeenGee]

The jet wash when in reverse or even neutral will hit anything that extends off the stern.
On a previous boat, the installation was fairly well protected. I found that the jet wash would push the back of the transducers down and had to really torque the bolts on the mount to prevent rotation.
Look at post #46 on this thread: 210 FSH "Perfect" transducer setup - What is it?

 

[MilesPrower]

I mounted the AI 3-in-1 transducers. I ordered a Y-Cable. I ran with 1 transducer connected to the NSX. I was pleased with the performance of the side scan. I have a couple of gripes.

Holy effin cow (sorry for the French)!!! That looks AMAZING!!! That's got to be the best transducer installation I've ever seen on a Yamaha!

Side scan is disabled when CHIRP is active.

Yeah, CHIRP has to be disabled for sidescan to work. I'm assuming that has to do with CHIRP "sweeping" the frequency, which would/could interfere with the transducer's side-scan beamforming (phase interference).

Can you run CHIRP on your thru-hull transducer concurrently with side-scan on your AI transducers? That's what I do on both of my boats.

On my two fishing kayaks (with a single AI 3-in-1 mounted on each of them), I use traditional or down-scan at 200 kHz concurrently with 800 kHz side-scan.

The specs say that Traditional sonar is good up to 55mph. Mine quits working at 35mph.

My thru-hull HDI transducer finds bottom at all speeds, even at 45 kt, but I mounted my AI transducers so they come out of the water when I'm on plane, so I can't say whether they work/quit at speed. (As I mentioned already, I wanted the AIs close to the waterline so I could scan far to my sides when I'm fishing in super skinny water.)

In less than 1 foot of water the depth indication goes to ----.

Hmmm... I wonder if that has to do with the transducers seeing destructive reflections off the hull (or ride plates) of your boat. Are you running the transducers at 83, 200, 455 and/or 800 kHz? Are the jets running when you lose bottom in shallow water?

I've seen mine go to 0.7 ft (distance between transducer and bottom, with the jets turned off) before they flatline to "---". But by that time, my keel is literally sitting on the bottom. On my kayaks, I'll sometimes see 0.5 ft (again, distance from transducer to bottom), but more often than not, when I'm in super skinny water, the depth reading ends up falsely reporting much higher values (e.g. 5 ft when the transducer is less than half foot above bottom).

 

[TeenGee]

Holy effin cow (sorry for the French)!!! That looks AMAZING!!! That's got to be the best transducer installation I've ever seen on a Yamaha!

Thanks.

Yeah, CHIRP has to be disabled for sidescan to work. I'm assuming that has to do with CHIRP "sweeping" the frequency, which would/could interfere with the transducer's side-scan beamforming (phase interference).

Can you run CHIRP on your thru-hull transducer concurrently with side-scan on your AI transducers? That's what I do on both of my boats.

On my two fishing kayaks (with a single AI 3-in-1 mounted on each of them), I use traditional or down-scan at 200 kHz concurrently with 800 kHz side-scan.

No, right now I only have one of the 3 transducers connected at a time. I have a Y-cable ordered so I can connect 2 transducers to the NSX at a time.

My thru-hull HDI transducer finds bottom at all speeds, even at 45 kt, but I mounted my AI transducers so they come out of the water when I'm on plane, so I can't say whether they work/quit at speed. (As I mentioned already, I wanted the AIs close to the waterline so I could scan far to my sides when I'm fishing in super skinny water.)

The thru hull works at full speed.

Hmmm... I wonder if that has to do with the transducers seeing destructive reflections off the hull (or ride plates) of your boat. Are you running the transducers at 83, 200, 455 and/or 800 kHz? Are the jets running when you lose bottom in shallow water?

I've seen mine go to 0.7 ft (distance between transducer and bottom, with the jets turned off) before they flatline to "---". But by that time, my keel is literally sitting on the bottom. On my kayaks, I'll sometimes see 0.5 ft (again, distance from transducer to bottom), but more often than not, when I'm in super skinny water, the depth reading ends up falsely reporting much higher values (e.g. 5 ft when the transducer is less than half foot above bottom).

Running the 3-in-1 at 83 reads the depth at the highest speed. Only about 35mph.
I put one of the 3-in-1 on a pole and put it over the side at the dock. At about 1 foot from the bottom it would indicate ---. Then while in contact with the bottom it would sometimes indicate 5 feet.

Simrad is no help with this. I think a software change might fix it.
I am considering removing the entire Simrad system and installing a Garmin 1243xsv with a pair of GT56UHD transducers. I had the same transducers on my last boat with 943xsv. One time I was up on plane with the 943 reading 0.7 feet of water below the keel. It is times like that where I really want to know the situation. I'm not sure what to do about the 3" hole through my hull.