Having trouble fueling your Yamaha? Me too!

[FSH 210 Sport]

Was talking to my mechanic friend and he opined that this flapper is put in line to assure that all vapors from the gas tank go through the carbon canister where said vapors are retained by the carbon and are then returned to the tank as the fuel level drops and it draws air in through the carbon canister.

 

[yamaha275sd]

My 275sd 2022, does one gallon per min fueling, my first 5 fillings were perfect no problem then I started to go to different stations to see if that was the problem, but the problem persisted. I can see the check valve should be at leas double the size of the tube in order to keep the same flow of the pipe. I will try to see if there is an alternative or bigger check valve if not I’ll remove it too. But yes this is frustrating that after spending all this money we have to figure it out! And if you take it to the dealer they will eat you alive.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

My 275sd 2022, does one gallon per min fueling, my first 5 fillings were perfect no problem then I started to go to different stations to see if that was the problem, but the problem persisted. I can see the check valve should be at leas double the size of the tube in order to keep the same flow of the pipe. I will try to see if there is an alternative or bigger check valve if not I’ll remove it too. But yes this is frustrating that after spending all this money we have to figure it out! And if you take it to the dealer they will eat you alive.

Have you checked the vent line and carbon canister for free flow? Been several people who have found the carbon canister full of water.

 

[yamaha275sd]

Thanks for the information it sounds like this can be the issue too. I will check it out!

 

[tdonoughue]

Yep, that would be me. If you overfill your tank regularly (as I did), you can fill the charcoal canister with condensate or gas. Then none of the pressure can be relieved through that vent next to the fill port. Especially as temperature rises, pressure builds in the tank and forces the check valve closed. And then you can't fill (or you have to fill the entire pipe with fuel to get enough weight to force some of it down past the flap).

As a temporary measure I started carrying a fish stick (like a fish tape, only fiberglass) that I could quickly put together and push down the fill tube to push open the check valve to relieve the pressure. Then I could fill a bit, push the stick in again, repeat... until I figured it all out and replaced the canister. Problem now solved.

 

[Franz collier]

thank for that information too, Im going to work on this tomorrow morning, question where is that carbon canister?

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

thank for that information too, Im going to work on this tomorrow morning, question where is that carbon canister?

Should be in the compartment closest to the fuel fill cap.

 

[tdonoughue]

Write up is at https://jetboaters.net/threads/oil-tank-and-fuel-vent.34641/ , complete with pics... (so we know it happened)

 

[Can0n11]

I finally fixed my check valve today in preparation for an island stay for a week on the St. Mary's river-vacation prep is when I get around to fixing things it seems . On the FSH 190 the tank header or fill is on the left rear corner of the gas tank and the only access is from the center hatch which is a PIA. It went a lot better than I thought it was going to go. The flapper valve was over 4 inches down the fuel fill line, but was able to get to it and get it out. That put it at the corner where the fuel line cuts through the Leaning post front wall, and twists up into the left cargo/battery hold area. It was cocked backwards in the area where the line goes up and to port. Looks like the natural bind on the 1.5" line deformed the cheap plastic part to where it restricted flow. I have not been able to fill at the pump using the lowest click on the pump and had to perform stupid human tricks of barely unseating the fuel pump nozzle to be able to fill the boat. I wont divulge my crude test methods but prior to my fix, introducing air into the fill line would would result in a 3-5 second delay (you can hear it) as the air made its way through the vent system. Now the restriction is minimal, probably more in line with designed venting.

Thanks for the pics and the inspiration!

 

[Judge]

My 275sd 2022, does one gallon per min fueling, my first 5 fillings were perfect no problem then I started to go to different stations to see if that was the problem, but the problem persisted. I can see the check valve should be at leas double the size of the tube in order to keep the same flow of the pipe. I will try to see if there is an alternative or bigger check valve if not I’ll remove it too. But yes this is frustrating that after spending all this money we have to figure it out! And if you take it to the dealer they will eat you alive.

I know this is an old thread but........ I just got bit by the fueling problem today with my '22 275SD. Did you ever get this resolved and what was the root cause? The flapper or the canister?

The boat has always been finicky fueling but today the marina had a heck of time getting fuel in. Took almost 20 minutes to load 25 gallons.

When I got back to the dock I tried to fill it again. It was impossible to fuel..... gas would keep backing up unless the flow was a trickle.

Looking at the Service Manual and I don't see a flapper but others have mentioned it doesn't show in the parts list. Given the temps got well into the 80's and I ran the boat a few hours, I'm guessing it is the canister because of the apparent pressure build-up causing the fuel to shoot back out.

The Service Manual diagrams are pretty crappy. They don't definitely show the location of the canister and the diagram showing roughly where the fuel tank is located is not that great either. I'm assuming it is under the floor mid-ship.


What really sucks is the Yamaha Dealer who was on the water did my service is no longer selling or servicing Yamaha Jet boats and I don't have a trailer. There is a mobile service guy locally who does Yamaha Jet Ski and Jet Boar service and has a good reputation but I would like to see if I could located and replace the canister myself. At this point I'm assuming it is under the floor in the fuel tank compartment.

What also sucks is I purchased the YES Warranty and I doubt Yamaha will cover any parts and service through the mobile tech. Although I may try and tell Yamaha the dealer who sold me the YES Warranty no longer does service to see if they would cover a mobile tech.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Hopefully it is just the charcoal canister having restricted flow that is causing your issue.

On my boat the vent has an allen drive bolt on the outside, remove this and there is a wire mesh screen underneath if memory serves. Who knows, maybe you’ll find a restriction there. Once it’s off a simple test would be to blow into the vent to check for restriction. If you leave the fill cap closed any air you blow into the tank will come right back out. If there’s no flow you’ll just need to deal with removing the canister and either cleaning it out or installing a new one.

In @Can0n11 case the flapper was found to be the issue and I’m pretty sure he has had no further issues. In the linked thread below the op bought an inexpensive bore scope off amazon and found the flapper to be the issue so trouble shooting beyond the vent or canister should be easy.

Post in thread 'Filling Gas is slowwwwww'

Apr 16, 2024

maybe read through this thread about slow filling,

https://jetboaters.net/threads/having-trouble-fueling-your-yamaha-me-too.31645/page-2#post-656803

• Scottintexas

Thread 'Oil Tank and Fuel Vent'

Jul 29, 2021

Howdy.

Today I could not get any fuel into my tank. The hose filled up and it came right back at me. I pulled apart the check valve and found pretty high pressure in the tank (which I am figuring was holding the check valve shut). Haven't yet found anything in the fill pipe hose (still need to recheck that, @Scottintexas ). So I am now suspecting that there is an issue with the vent system.

Looking at the schematics, I see that the vent from the side of the boat goes down to an 'oiltank'. All I can think is that this is what they are calling the breather system that catches...

• tdonoughue
• Replies: 19
• Forum: General Discussion

 

[Judge]

Hopefully it is just the charcoal canister having restricted flow that is causing your issue.

On my boat the vent has an allen drive bolt on the outside, remove this and there is a wire mesh screen underneath if memory serves. Who knows, maybe you’ll find a restriction there. Once it’s off a simple test would be to blow into the vent to check for restriction. If you leave the fill cap closed any air you blow into the tank will come right back out. If there’s no flow you’ll just need to deal with removing the canister and either cleaning it out or installing a new one.

In @Can0n11 case the flapper was found to be the issue and I’m pretty sure he has had no further issues. In the linked thread below the op bought an inexpensive bore scope off amazon and found the flapper to be the issue so trouble shooting beyond the vent or canister should be easy.

Post in thread 'Filling Gas is slowwwwww'

Apr 16, 2024

maybe read through this thread about slow filling,

https://jetboaters.net/threads/having-trouble-fueling-your-yamaha-me-too.31645/page-2#post-656803

• Scottintexas

Thread 'Oil Tank and Fuel Vent'

Jul 29, 2021

Howdy.

Today I could not get any fuel into my tank. The hose filled up and it came right back at me. I pulled apart the check valve and found pretty high pressure in the tank (which I am figuring was holding the check valve shut). Haven't yet found anything in the fill pipe hose (still need to recheck that, @Scottintexas ). So I am now suspecting that there is an issue with the vent system.

Looking at the schematics, I see that the vent from the side of the boat goes down to an 'oiltank'. All I can think is that this is what they are calling the breather system that catches...

• tdonoughue
• Replies: 19
• Forum: General Discussion

Thanks!

I have the Marina putting the boat on a maintenance rack tomorrow. I was going to pull the vent cover first to make sure no spiders or mud bees built a nest in there. I'm 40' in the air when stored but you never know.

I'm leaning towards the canister. The more I think about it we get a lot of wind driven rain storms in Florida in the summer months. I could see how water might work its way into the vent and down to the canister over time. I actually thought about permanently removing the canister but decided that wouldn't be a good idea.... because if I'm right and wind driven rain gets into the vent from time to time, the water would end up getting into the fuel tank.

I read a little about the flapper.... it is crazy it doesn't show in the parts list at all. They seem to show a picture of it in the service manual but say very little about it.

The other reason I think it is the canister is in the morning when it was cool, we could get about 20 gallons in.... but it took 20 minutes of feather the nozzle. When I got back in the after noon and I wanted to try and fill it again. Fuel would just come shooting out the filler not matter how I held the nozzle. If I let it trickle very slightly, fuel would start to fill but eventually it would back up. Given the heat of the day and running 4 hours, I'm guessing that caused a larger pressure increase because of a blocked canister.

We'll see if I find anything under the vent cover..... but I'm thinking it's the canister.

Thanks!!

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Thanks Dale!

I have the Marina putting the boat on a maintenance rack tomorrow. I was going to pull the vent cover first to make sure no spiders or mud bees built a nest in there. I'm 40' in the air when stored but you never know.

I'm leaning towards the canister. The more I think about it we get a lot of wind driven rain storms in Florida in the summer months. I could see how water might work its way into the vent and down to the canister over time. I actually thought about permanently removing the canister but decided that wouldn't be a good idea.... because if I'm right and wind driven rain gets into the vent from time to time, the water would end up getting into the fuel tank.

I read a little about the flapper.... it is crazy it doesn't show in the parts list at all. They seem to show a picture of it in the service manual but say very little about it.

The other reason I think it is the canister is in the morning when it was cool, we could get about 20 gallons in.... but it took 20 minutes of feather the nozzle. When I got back in the after noon and I wanted to try and fill it again. Fuel would just come shooting out the filler not matter how I held the nozzle. If I let it trickle very slightly, fuel would start to fill but eventually it would back up. Given the heat of the day and running 4 hours, I'm guessing that caused a larger pressure increase because of a blocked canister.

We'll see if I find anything under the vent cover..... but I'm thinking it's the canister.

Thanks!!

I would add that the number one cause of vent canister issues comes from overfilling the gas tank. I use the “fuel used” meter in the connext screen to know how much fuel I should expect to put in the tank, it’s usually accurate within a 1/10 th of a gallon when re filling, although I’ve had a handful of instances when the boat was at a different angle at the filling station and the tank not filling fully and puking out some fuel.

My boat fills decently most of the time but the fill gets slow over the last 5-10 gallons at fill up and I have to feather the handle, I’ll be using the bore scope I bought off Amazon to check the flapper valve orientation and the vent canister in the off season this year to see if any improvement can be made in fueling, both speed and consistency. If I find the flapper is cockeyed it’s coming out.

 

[Judge]

Well…. I think I found my fueling issue….. and I have to give a shoutout to a mobile tech who called me back and gave me a tip before I decided if I was going to have him come out.

I also have to give a shoutout to @FSH 210 Sport who suggested I try some pressure testing first.

I took my Ryobi Air Pump with me and some Gorilla tape. I put a pool float adapter in the air pump…. put Gorilla Tape over the filler and vent (after removing the vent cover and screen)…. then I poked a hole in the Gorilla tape and inserted the air adpater.

First I started with the vent. The air pump is low flow but eventually the pressure started building up on the vent tape and not the filler tape. So my first thought was either the filler flapper is working and sealing when pushed towards the filler or the vent canister is plugged and air couldn’t make it into the tank.

Then I switched the tape and started putting air through the filler. After a minute or two the tape started to bulge on the vent side so I knew the flapper had opened enough to allow air to hit the tank and then air made it throttle the canister out to the vent.

Once I determined the flapper and cansister seemed to be operating… even with the low air flow and a half full tank, I decided to take the Mobile Tech’s advice.

He told me he worked on a 275 with a fueling issue. He found the fuel filler hose was routed such that instead of a continual downward slope to the tank, there was a dip in the hose. He rerouted the fuel hose and user zip ties to get the proper downward slope and it solved the problem.

I opened the port engine cover and started tracing the filler and vent hoses. What did I find? Yamaha screwed the pooch is what I found.

Yamaha put some zip tie mounts on the fire wall and zip tied the hose to them. Well…. the filler hose weighs a ton. The zip tie mounts were barely glued to the fiberglass and three of them broke off so the fuel hose has a big sag in it before going back up to run into the tank. I can see how fuel would start backing up and shooting out the filler from an airlock situation.

So my question to the group is…..

Do you think 4200 or 5200 would hold if I used it on the rough fiberglass surface to secure the zip tie mounts in place. I’ve used them both before and they work as advertised.

I tried to use another one that was holding up some wiring and when In left the hose go it pulled right off the fiberglass.

Why Yamaha wouldn’t have glassed them in place or user 5200 is beyond me.

Here are some pics to see what you think. I’m hoping 4200 or 5200 would do the trick and support the weight of the hose if I have 3 or 4 of them mounted securely. I don’t really want to mix up fiberglass to do it.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Good deal on finding a cause…. The OEM zip tie mounts are glued in with some sort of an epoxy. I asked my marine mechanic friend and this is what he suggested.

Clean any existing epoxy off of the existing mounting tabs.

Clean all surfaces with acetone. You might even sand / rough up the surface, both the hull and the tabs with 80 grit paper that white gel coat down to the red glass and clean thoroughly with acetone which will remove any wax.

Add more mounting tabs, that hose is heavy and the couple mounting tabs that are there are not enough to hold that big ass hose.

Get some West systems G5 two part epoxy (apparently can be had in small packets) and mix in some micro bubbles to thicken it and use this to attach the mounting tabs to the hull. It has a very short working time so be prepared to use it quickly, hold the tab in place for about 5 mins then let it cure.

He said the tabs will not come off after using this material. Suggested to use a practice batch.

G/5 Five-Minute Epoxy Adhesive Kit, 8 fl oz. | West Marine

Check out our G/5 Five-Minute Epoxy Adhesive Kit, 8 fl oz. and more from West Marine!

www.westmarine.com

#406 Colloidal Silica Filler, 1.7 oz. | West Marine

Check out our #406 Colloidal Silica Filler, 1.7 oz. and more from West Marine!

www.westmarine.com

 

[Judge]

Thanks!

I'm now rethinking the mounting of hose altogether. I don't like the fact they use a plastic-type tab for the zip ties. Looks to me they could easily get brittle from the engine heat and crack over time.

I'm not thinking about some type of metal tab to anchor the zip ties.

I also saw there is a light and fire extinguisher port in that area. I'm even thinking about removing one of the sheet metal screws on each piece and replace the a machine screw and attach some type of metal bracket and secure it with nylon nuts.

It just boggles my mind that Yamaha would hang the hose the way they did. Those plastic tabs are fine for the wiring harnesses running through the engine compartments but not the fuel hose and the vent hose. Both togther are heavy and bulky.

I even have stainless zip ties out in the garage and may go that route as well.

I have my redesigning hat on now trying to come up with a permanent solution.

If I do attach a metal bracket to the fiberglass, I'm going to use the approach you recommended above.

Thanks again!

 

[Judge]

This may be the ticket to mount the hose and what I had floating in my head......

I could mount the metal anchors to the light and fire extinguisher port and / or epoxy them to the fiberglass.

Although.... I have change my mind with the metal zip ties..... I worry they could cut into the hose over time.

I do have some very heavy duty plastic zip ties I keep in the motorhome for emergency repairs. I think I will use those with a metal anchor to hold the hose in place.