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JetBoatPilot's New Surf Tech, Thrust Vector Wake

Brad460

Active Member
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Location
Richfield, WI
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2019
Boat Model
AR
Boat Length
21
I question the safety aspect as a boater and not as a vendor. 1200 pounds all day long is over half the capacity of my boat.

I agree that lead ballast has its place but not in this fashion.


I dislike the fact that i cannot say anything now because I am labeled as a vendor when you see my name. I cannot just comment on the fact that I have boating knowledge and opinions?
I think as a vendor you give up the right to post certain comments on a competitors thread (like it our not)...
You both have competing products- So those comments can come off as disingenuous.. We all know what steel shot is and how it works (its upsides and downsides)..Sorry, but is this not obvious?

Between those high-jacking the thread with pictures of their Moomba (sorry Haknslash- it is a sweet boat, but come on you already have a 27 pager on that boat..lol) and competitors arguing/taking shots at each other (I've seen other threads)...The admins need to do some cleaning..
 

jcyamaharider

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Location
Rosebud, Mo
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Yamaha
Year
2017
Boat Model
242X E-Series
Boat Length
24
I think as a vendor you give up the right to post certain comments on a competitors thread (like it our not)...
You both have competing products- So those comments can come off as disingenuous.. We all know what steel shot is and how it works (its upsides and downsides)..Sorry, but is this not obvious?

Between those high-jacking the thread with pictures of their Moomba (sorry Haknslash- it is a sweet boat, but come on you already have a 27 pager on that boat..lol) and competitors arguing/taking shots at each other (I've seen other threads)...The admins need to do some cleaning..
Sometimes you guys get misguided and need shown the real light again. " Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".
 

Ancient canoe

Jet Boat Junkie
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Location
Denton TX
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Yamaha
Year
2019
Boat Model
AR
Boat Length
21
Ballast and surfing are definitely not my forte, but I followed the threads because I appreciate the ingenuity you guys have. In the world of surfing are weight ratings generally ignored? Even if you weren't talking about 1200 of lead, and it was just the stock 1100 ballast. On a 21' you got 760lbs left. I think logic would imply most would be over that by a lot. I understand that you could drain the water ballast, but at some point you are still running over the limit. Is the idea that those limits aren't that big of a deal?
 

biffdotorg

Jetboaters Lieutenant
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Dilworth, MN
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Yamaha
Year
2011
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Limited S
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24
You can comment, and that's why I never said you can't. We all respect your opinion as well. And if you didn't notice, I'm agreeing with you.

What I was trying to say, as a vendor, it is important to do it tactfully. As badmouthing competition is a tasteless tact that some ignore.

Respectfully, you said it was laughable. So it's not quite badmouthing, so I apologize. But let's agree, Will could have have reached out to a ballast MFG and had his own transom bag made, which would have been an ugly move. And out of some respect for the product you are making, he is digging for an alternative. And he is doing so by pointing out the biggest advantage, ability to tune easily, or adjust for a goofy/regular foot surfer.

Again, I am agreeing with you, as I ordered your product as for the benefit it provides. But unless there is some constructive criticism, a vendor is held to a bit of a higher standard. (sorry, that's just good business ethics)

Swatski, on the other hand, he has his own standards, and we can expect his smartass to chime in (smile)
 

jcyamaharider

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swatski

Jetboaters Fleet Admiral
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Yamaha
Year
2016
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AR
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24
Ballast and surfing are definitely not my forte, but I followed the threads because I appreciate the ingenuity you guys have. In the world of surfing are weight ratings generally ignored? Even if you weren't talking about 1200 of lead, and it was just the stock 1100 ballast. On a 21' you got 760lbs left. I think logic would imply most would be over that by a lot. I understand that you could drain the water ballast, but at some point you are still running over the limit. Is the idea that those limits aren't that big of a deal?
It’s a good question.
Those NMMA stickers are generally just a guidance, not the law. The interpretation is in the eyes of the beholder... which in this case would be a state trooper, water patrol, USCG, a lockmaster, or your local Sheriff, whoever is authorized to board and inspect your vessel in a given body of water. They can decide if you are safe or not based on compliance with the sticker, all completely outside of it.

Yamaha obviously is skirting the NMMA load guidance here just like every other manufacturer of real wake boats does (though Yamaha is not even a real wake boat).

Most of us will use good judgment, and try to figure things out based on making incremental steps while assessing the situation (is my boat sitting too low? can I still come out of the hole? is my rub rail under the water? why is there water sipping inside the hull along my submerged rub rail?... and so on) and making decisions, accordingly.

Having enough of permanent ballast inside a Yamaha boat to go ropeless (for an adult) basically means... your rubrail needs to be below waterline - swim platform or at least a corner of it being submerged. That is a fact - there is no other way known to produce a surfable wave.

Is it smart to run like that (with the rub rail submerged underwater) for a day or days? without the possibility of unloading the weight?

Not to be a smart a$$ - but I would say no.

(happy to elaborate, there is just too many points to be made why it is not smart)

IMO!!!

 

spatty99

Jet Boat Junkie
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Location
Orlando, FL
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Moomba
Year
2017
Boat Model
Other
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21
The wake boats I am aware of are designed and built to accommodate the extra ballast, and the manuals even note that listed passenger capacity is in addition to the stock ballast. Yamaha listed capacity includes passenger and ballast weight combined.
 

haknslash

Jetboaters Admiral
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Alabaster, AL
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Year
2019
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Other
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The wake boats I am aware of are designed and built to accommodate the extra ballast, and the manuals even note that listed passenger capacity is in addition to the stock ballast. Yamaha listed capacity includes passenger and ballast weight combined.
Yup. I can’t speak for other MFG’s but when I toured the Skier’s Choice factory the weight capacity was brought up in a conversation. The placard on an SC product is for human persons onboard plus gear. The factory ballast is built into the design of the boat and not counted against the weight capacity. For instance my boat has a rating of 2,800 lbs of available people, gear or any additional ballast to compliment the stock 3,000 lbs ballast. That’s where the 17 person seating capacity comes from as they use an average person weight of 165 lbs.
 
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Matt Phillips

Jet Boat Junkie
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Lake Tahoe
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Yamaha
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2017
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242X E-Series
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24
I applaud Will for coming up with another solution here to get a better wave out of the Yamaha's.

For me, I'm not interested lead shot as you have to carry it around all day every day and there are days when it's simply too rough on our lake to board -- thus we cruise. In those times I don't want to carry around all that extra weight. Additionally, at 6200feet of elevation, it's nice to not have that weight when we don't need it. Now I think I will be playing with putting a water bag down on that lower step...I never thought of that idea.

:)
 

Scuba_ref

Jetboaters Captain
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Wenatchee, WA
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Yamaha
Year
2005
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AR
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I use a 750lb bag centered on the swim platform now. I use two large foam wedges under the trailing edge of the bag to keep it in place. I've never had an issue with it and we currently surf ropeless. I can't wait to add this to my boat to give me a clean face!

Edit: we also use two 400lb bags in the boat.
 

DavisAR195

Jet Boat Junkie
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Location
Happy Valley, Or
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Yamaha
Year
2017
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AR195
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19
I have a AR195 and running the 490lbs transom bag, 370lbs in the center ski locker and 100lbs lead bags pushed all the way back under the rear seats. I’m current very happy with the setup and looking forward to the TVW and seeing if it will clean the wake a little more and get a little more push from the deflection. My buddy was easily surfing rope less with this setup as I have a ways to go.
 

dadofral

Jet Boat Junkie
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49426 Hudsonville, MI
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Yamaha
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2015
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X
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21
I applaud Will for coming up with another solution here to get a better wave out of the Yamaha's.

For me, I'm not interested lead shot as you have to carry it around all day every day and there are days when it's simply too rough on our lake to board -- thus we cruise. In those times I don't want to carry around all that extra weight. Additionally, at 6200feet of elevation, it's nice to not have that weight when we don't need it. Now I think I will be playing with putting a water bag down on that lower step...I never thought of that idea.

:)
I’m with you and going to try the water bag ballast in conjunction with my on board ballast. Anything I add is going to be an improvement.
 

JDub

Well-Known Member
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52
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Yamaha
Year
2016
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242X E-Series
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24
Get yourself one of those foily board thingers that at @J-RAD sells and you wont need any ballast to surf.
 

dadofral

Jet Boat Junkie
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