Starting issues 2015 AR192 @help

[tdonoughue]

Don't panic on the ECU yet. Yes, that is an expensive part, but there is an outfit that repairs them, too. Cam sensor is where I need to do some research on how to test...

 

[Brody2012]

I see the cam position sensor it looks fairly easy to replace but idk if there is a method to check it. The sensor looks to be about 110 bucks.

 

[haknslash]

I see the cam position sensor it looks fairly easy to replace but idk if there is a method to check it. The sensor looks to be about 110 bucks.

Yamaha is magnetic type I believe.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Buy the shop manual and perform the engine electrical systems test as illustrated in the manual. You will need a multi meter to run the tests. You should be able to check the coil packs and all the rest of the ignition system to verify if they are within spec.

Also, be sure and check your man overboard switch and ignition switch. If the spark plugs are that corroded then other things on the boat are corroded. When was the last time the man overboard switch was operated? Try exercising that switch.

Run the mechanical tests As illustrated in the manual, especially the fuel pressure test.

FYI your plugs were roached! Unless those plugs were soaking in water since early this year... those plugs have been in there a long time. What was the gap on the plugs you took out? It appears to be excessive.

As far as your no spark issue goes...if any of the cylinders were firing, you would know it.

 

[Brody2012]

Buy the shop manual and perform the engine electrical systems test as illustrated in the manual. You will need a multi meter to run the tests. You should be able to check the coil packs and all the rest of the ignition system to verify if they are within spec.

Also, be sure and check your man overboard switch and ignition switch. If the spark plugs are that corroded then other things on the boat are corroded. When was the last time the man overboard switch was operated? Try exercising that switch.

Run the mechanical tests As illustrated in the manual, especially the fuel pressure test.

FYI your plugs were roached! Unless those plugs were soaking in water since early this year... those plugs have been in there a long time. What was the gap on the plugs you took out? It appears to be excessive.

As far as your no spark issue goes...if any of the cylinders were firing, you would know it.

first question what is the man overboard switch?
2nd question where can I buy this manual?

so I have replaced all 4 spark plugs and all 4 gaps are set at 0.085mm.
I have used a multi meter to test all 4 coil connections so I know I do not have an open circuit In the wiring harness. My problem right now as it stands is I am NOT getting spark on 2 and 3 cylinder but I AM getting spark on 1 and 4 cylinder.
I know that the coil and the spark plug are good on cylinder 2 and 3 because I can swap either one and one over to 1 or 4 plug it in and get spark. I’ve tested the 3 wires on 2 and 3 cylinder all the way to the battery with good connection. So I am STUMPED on why the number 2 and 3 cylinder are not firing! I have NO check engine light coming on while I am cranking the engine.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

first question what is the man overboard switch?
2nd question where can I buy this manual?

so I have replaced all 4 spark plugs and all 4 gaps are set at 0.085mm.
I have used a multi meter to test all 4 coil connections so I know I do not have an open circuit In the wiring harness. My problem right now as it stands is I am NOT getting spark on 2 and 3 cylinder but I AM getting spark on 1 and 4 cylinder.
I know that the coil and the spark plug are good on cylinder 2 and 3 because I can swap either one and one over to 1 or 4 plug it in and get spark. I’ve tested the 3 wires on 2 and 3 cylinder all the way to the battery with good connection. So I am STUMPED on why the number 2 and 3 cylinder are not firing! I have NO check engine light coming on while I am cranking the engine.

The man overboard switch is where the safety lanyard that you connect to your PFD clips into a switch on the helm. If that clip is pulled, the switch drops down under spring tension, opens the ignition circuit and the engines shuts off and keeps the boat from motoring on after you fell out of the boat. Check this switch not only for connectivity, run an ohm check across this switch contacts when cold to see if you have high OHM readings.

Go here to find your shop manual, they are roughly $90. YAMAHA MANUAL STORE

Are you sure that you gapped the plugs at .085mm (.003”) and not .85mm (.033”)? I dont know what your boat manual says, my manual shows spark plug gap at .028” to .032” which is .715mm to .815mm. Pretty sure the engine in your boat is different than the ones in mine. Judging by other posts on this site it sounds like the spark plugs are pretty important performance wise.

There is/are neutral safety switches in the throttle that keeps the engine from starting if any position except neutral is selected. On my boat the engines won’t even crank if the throttles are in a position other than neutral, your boat could be different in that the engines may be allowed to crank but the ignition will not fire the spark plugs. Just something else to eliminate.

OK so you have spark on cylinders one and four but not two and three when it’s cold correct? Have you repeated the test to check for spark after the engine is warmed up when you say that the motor starts right back up again? Perform that simple test to see if your results are the same. Just because you checked connectivity on the coil packs back to the battery doesn’t mean the coils themselves are in serviceable condition. Try using your multi meter to check the OHMs on the coils and verify that 1-4 have the same readings cold and hot. Again this test is what the manual will help you with. See attached photo.

In my experience with dirt bike stators/charging systems which are similar to these boat stators, the failure or problems with ignitions would occur when the stator got hot, and a broken wire inside the stator would lift, opening the coil and the engine would shut off. After letting the stator cool the bike would start back up again. In your case, it almost sounds as though the opposite is true, some component when cold is opening or almost opening a winding in coil some where. This is why you need to run OHM tests per the book to assure the electrical aspect of the ignition system is sound.

You need to run OHM tests and not just connectivity checks.

Have you unplugged all of the multi pin connectors and visually inspected them for corrosion and cleanliness? Remember your original spark plugs? (I’m still blown away by how badly those were corroded in what should be a sealed environment). Use a bright light and a magnifying glass to look down into the female sides of the pins and at the male pins. Use CRC Lectra-Motive contact cleaner to spray out the connections and use compressed air to blow them out till dry. Don’t just clean the connections, inspect them if possible first to see if you find a problem. Example: There is a couple I know of who have an Earth Roamer camper based on a F-550 chassis. They started to experience engine shut off / no start problems. After several dealers and a lot of parts an individual diesel tech they took it to knew exactly what it was. There is a large multi pin connector inside the truck under the dash. Several of the pins were corroded and black. This was caused by the fact the truck was now a camper and there had been excessive humidity inside the cab from the couple living in it in cold weather with the windows closed.

Once you have solved this problem, I highly recommend you go back through these connections and fill them with dielectric grease to keep the pins from corroding and to keep them free so you can pull the connectors apart if necessary. I’ve done this on my dirt bikes when they were new to keep any problems from occurring going forward.

Be careful with contact cleaners as they will cut the finish on plastic, meaning it will dull the finish.

Or at the end of the day you can take it to a reputable dealer who has a trained mechanic with all of the tools and let him trouble shoot and fix the problem and you will be done messing around with this problem and you will be out enjoying your great starting boat.

Hope all this helps!

 

[Beachbummer]

I find the rust on the plugs suspect too.(as in, was there a lot of water/moisture in there before?) I would first follow the wiring harness of the coils that are not firing and check those connectors first.

Prior posts have great advice.

 

[Brody2012]

Thanks for the info. Oddly enough the spark plugs are the only signs of corrosion. All connectors and switches look brand new. And that was a dumb moment I wasn’t thinking I’ve always called it the kill switch. But while cranking the engine I have pulled the kill switch and there is a difference in sound with the engine cranking. I agree the spark plugs looked awful and honestly I do not know why. Everything else looks brand spanking new. There was no signs moisture in the spark plug holes other than the rust on the plug nuts. My specifications on the plugs are .08mm-.09mm and I’m positive they are set correctly. Each individual coil and plug has a nice blue spark but just not when connected to number 2 and 3 harness connectors. And again the harness connection look 100 percent sound with no corrosion. At the moment I cannon even get the engine to start. Where ever the problem lies I’m assuming at this point it’s 100 percent failed. I’m going to buy that manual and run more test. I am afraid there is a problem with my ECU but I’m obviously going to do my best to rule everything else out before I go there.

 

[Brody2012]

Also I would have already taken this to a dealer usually but unfortunately I do not have a great reputable dealer near me. The closest is an hour away and I’ve heard nothing but horror stories from people on here about this dealer also it would probably be several weeks till they could get to it so I might as well do what I can before I go that route

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Any progress??

 

[Brody2012]

Yes just picked up from the dealer today.....
1300 dollars later. They had to remove the entire motor to replace a part that sounded kinda like a stator I can’t remember exactly what they called it. I’m just really pissed on the whole situation..... the boat is starting now which is great but upon opening the engine compartment not a single bolt was on the coil packs. On top of that one of the stunts on the engine compartment seat is broken.... I’m livid considering I spent almost 1000 dollars in LABOR. However they are going to replace. After I said something. According to the mechanic he hadn’t seen one go bad on a Yamaha yet So I guess I had bad luck 1 in a 1000 it happens a guess. I planned on writing a full detailed response to this thread once I got a chance to take the boat out tomorrow or next weekend because regardless my issue was very specific and eventually I’m sure this will help someone out however the entire engine did have to be removed to replace the part. Until I take it out and give her hell I ain’t going to give to much more info cause all I know right now is it’s starting again

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Hi Brody,

I’m glad to hear that you got the problem fixed!

How long did it take them to diagnose the problem?

Try not to be pissed about the whole thing.

Your boat starts now, and from what I can read into your posts other than this the boat is good otherwise. And remember, you bought a used boat, you got a much lower price than had you bought a brand new one. When you buy something used it most always has some issue. Not always true, but it is the norm.

The guy you bought it from told you how good it was, but those spark plugs tell a tale on the previous owner, again, I’ve never seen a set up plugs that looked like that, and I’ve been working on cars, trucks and dirt bikes for 40 years. As House said, “People lie”. That includes lies of omission.

And one of my favorites: “When everything plausible has been eliminated, whatever remains however implausible, has to be the answer”
Mycroft Holmes-Sherlock‘s brother.

Yeah this is the pot calling the kettle black, because I had a similar situation recently with a vehicle wherein I had a $8000 repair bill and when I looked it over when I got home there were fender bolts missing or hanging down loose. I was not happy about that I can tell you!!! So I get the coil pack bolts missing.. I also get the fact the stunt (?) was broken and you had to bring to their attention. So now you know, right in front of them, open everything up and look it over and don’t be shy about pointing things out. As my friend likes to remind me when things don’t go as planned, “experience is what you get when you don’t get what you want”.

No one is going to work on it with the love and care you do, as you paid $$$$$ for this boat.

Also, that 1 in 1000 thing... it can happen for sure. Stators fail mainly due to heat, heat caused by excessive load, in this case it is probable that it was charging load that got it hot and degraded the winding, as in a battery with a bad cell and the stator is constantly charging the battery plus whatever other loads were on the system. The regulator / rectifier is water cooled so it could withstand a lot of load. I’m not a see sayer by any means, but, I’m not surprised by this. In my previous post I talked about how motorcycle ignitions, specifically the old SEM / Motoplat stators would, when they failed, get hot and the bike would die as the broken wire in the winding would lift and separate thereby opening the circuit, which can be damn exciting at 50mph going across the desert! You‘d have to sit and wait about an hour and the bike would restart. It sounds to me like your situation was the reverse, the circuit was barely / or not made when the motor was cold, and once the motor ran and your stator got warm the connection was made more solid and that’s why it would start the rest of the day once started. Just a guess, but plausible.

And the $1000 in labor sounds like one day in the mechanics bay. For what’s worth, consider the time it took to trouble shoot the problem, R&R the engine to gain access to the stator for replacement, then test the engine, and, you now have a guarantee on the work and the parts that were used. How much is your time worth? And had you done the repairs you would not have a guarantee on anything as electrical parts are not warrantied. I’m betting that if you had the manual, multimeter, and the connection tools you could have found the bad OHM readings in the stator wiring. Still, unless you have a hoist and some other specific tools you could probably not have made these repairs yourself.

So, to you, my jet boating brethren, I say be happy that the boat is fixed, go forth and use the heck out of it ad enjoy it!!!

Once you have that permagrin back on your face from successful days of boating, you can go through all of the electrical connections, check, clean and grease them all so as to prevent any preventable electrical issues from coming up in the future.

I thank you for sharing your experience with your boat so that indeed someone else may benefit from your experience, that’s what part of these forums are all about.

Best of luck! And I hope that you and yours enjoy your boat and its great starting ability!!

Let us know how the test goes!!

 

[Beachbummer]

It's fixed and it's only money, Go run it hard to get your money's worth, and a smile back in your face,

 

[tdonoughue]

Well, you can paint me surprised at the stator diagnosis... but results don't lie. Glad it is up and running. Look forward to any details of the repair you can provide! This one we should leave breadcrumbs for the next one who has an issue like this.