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Trailering SX230 1500 or 2500?

Bruce

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Dealers are charging around $125 for an oil change so I am thinking that the oil can not be too expensive. It has a 10K mile oil change interval.
 

Big Shasta

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Dealers are charging around $125 for an oil change so I am thinking that the oil can not be too expensive. It has a 10K mile oil change interval.
Trust me, I'm not trying to bash the decision, I wish there were more 1/2 ton diesel options. But I want you to know what you're getting into.
Does that inlcude the 8-10 gallons of DEF you'll likely go through in 10K miles?

• The DEF tank on the EcoDiesel has an 8 gallon capacity and the fluid level can be monitored via a cluster mounted gauge. If the DEF level is low enough so that the truck can only travel 1 mile or less on its current capacity, the engine will not restart once it is turned off until the fluid level is increased.
 

Big Shasta

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Here's what I was saying about how they got them so quiet (partially). Sounds EXPENSIVE.

The EcoDiesel V-6 features Fiat’s innovative MultiJet II common-rail fuel-injection system features
29,000-psi (2,000-bar) of line pressure.
High-dispersion nozzles and a new servovalve enable fuel-injection events that occur with greater
precision up to eight times per cylinder cycle. This ensures efficiency via clean, smooth combustion.
The interval between two consecutive injections also is better modulated to mitigate noise and benefit
fuel consumption and emissions reduction. This is known as Injection Rate Shaping.
 

Matt Phillips

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I don't have an Ecodiesel, but I did just trade from a v6 Cayenne to a Diesel x5. The cayenne had 290hp/275 torque where the x5 has 255/418. I just towed my 232 down from Lake Tahoe and the difference is remarkable. Where the old car towed OK, it was working hard the entire time, the diesel on the other hand pulled well, and never even seemed like it was working hard. 62mph was 1500rpm. Even pulling up the passes, I was easily able to simply leave the cruise on (this was on a hill that gained over 1000' of elevation.

Since we can only do 55 out here in CA when towing, I can't speak for how it'd do with a trailer going 70 but from what I can tell, it's has the power to easily do it.

As for fuel economy, the cayenne got 21 on the highway and 14 when towing. The diesel will easily top 32 on the highway and got about 21 over the 240 miles today.
 

Jump Right In

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Certainly the results speak for themselves in towing with a diesel. Respectfully, it sounds like Big Shasta loves his Tundra which he is certainly entitled to do, however several of his "costs" are not really accurate and I don't fault him, the reality is there is a lot of misconceptions with diesels. First of all the are the most reliable and overall a very low cost vehicle to maintain which is why larger fleets and especially businesses that are hard on their vehicles choose to use diesels. Yes, like any vehicle they can have a problem that can be very expensive to fix, in reality that is just a cost of the technology we drive now. The other item I mentioned in my earlier post was I chose to lease the vehicle because the engine at this point does not have the history of a cummins or duramax. Should it hold up and pass my tests, as well as industry real-life testing over the next 36 months I am sure the longevity will be better known at that point. To some degree its not that different than the Yamaha boats from 2006 and those that purchased them in 2006, realistically could have used one for years and years and hardly lost a dime as the boats continued to appreciate in value every time that Yamaha increased the price point.

As far as the premium to purchase, for the Dodge Ram it is $2,850 more than the Hemi option. For my purposes and driving as noted in one of my earlier posts, the payoff is less than three years driving around 15K miles per year and that is factoring in a 10% premium for diesel costs.

As someone else noted, an oil change is around $125 at a dealership and is suggested every 10,000 miles. A conventional oil change for a gas engine is recommended every 3,000 - 4,000 miles and will cost around $50 for a good quality semi-synthetic oil (at least that is what I pay for my Suburban and I think that is pretty close to going rate. Unfortunately, it is not typically $25 like they show on a sign unless you drive a very small car). So, to be fair the oil changes are at least comparable in cost per mile and possibly cost less.

Also as noted in my earlier post, the truck does require DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) which is a requirement now in every new diesel truck sold from what I understand. A tank lasts about 10,000 miles depending on exact driving/towing. DEF typically will cost less than $4/gallon at a truck stop and the tank holds 8 gallons for a total of about $32. Over 100,000 miles that equates to $320. Everyone's opinion will differ, but in my books that is a pretty minor expense considering what most of us spend in aftermarket accessories, modifications, etc. It may be worth noting as well, that although the VM Motori engine is new to North America, it is not a new engine. From my understanding the engine was actually developed in 2011.

One other item on cost and truck value. Diesels are proven to hold their values far better than their gasoline counterparts. So although I chose to spend an additional $2,850 MSRP (in actuality I paid about 20% less than MSRP, so it was closer to a $2,300 upgrade)... my bet is that in 3-4 years the truck will be worth well more than that difference paid on day one. Which actually means I am driving a much improved towing and far more efficient vehicle, really at no cost to myself over the next 36 months, and beyond should I choose to purchase it.

Everyone's purchasing decisions are different and based on their individual needs, and I know that Big Shasta understands that. Please don't take this post as me defending my decision to purchase the EcoDiesel Ram... as the reality is I am at perfect peace with my decision. I am just hoping to spread the word and hope people make test drive one and consider the facts. Just like we have a great jetboaters forum, they equally have a couple of great Ecodiesel forums already. In my short experience, there truly is a reason this truck is getting all the positive press that it is... anyway, sorry for the rambling!!!
 

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My family owns an Environmental Business and we have a fleet of trucks and vans. We have moved away from Diesel and now purchase gas trucks for everything but the largest of trucks (couple lbs under CDL requirement). With the new Diesel requirements we found fleet maintenance costs had sky rocketed as well as the cost of diesel fuel. Going to Ford Box trucks on a f450 gas engine has been great for us. I still do love the old Can over diesels from a driving perspective but that was with the old simple diesel setups, we still have a couple of those but got rid of all the newer ones.

The one thing that matters more than if it diesel or gas is the proper gearing. Get a truck with the wrong gears and does not matter if its 1/2 or 1 ton it will be a dog.

As for them holding value better well that is only true if they turn out to be reliable. Many of the older diesel truck held value so well as people were putting 300k miles on them with out any major issues. The ones that had issues did not hold value.
 

Bruce

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I am excited to read your positive review of towing with the ecodiesel. I see one in my near future.
 

Jump Right In

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Interesting point about the change of the fleet. I was going to note about the "reliable part" factoring into their value and would absolutely agree... I thought I was being too wordy the way it was!
 

Big Shasta

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@Jump Right In - Don't take me the wrong way, I do love my tundra but I haven't once compared the ram to the tundra, that's not what my points were about. I stick to my statement of higher maintenance and repair costs. I believe most vehicles now are 10K oil change intervals. My Tundra is but I have no idea what an oil change costs at a dealer, I do all my own maintenance. In the end, Get what you like, I don't fault a guy for getting a Ram and I'm certainly not trying to talk him out of it. As human beings we decide what we want and then we justify it to ourselves (or publicly if we choose to in a place like this) Sometimes the numbers work out, sometimes they don't....I just wanted him to consider all the factors before making the commitment.

In my quest to leave emotion out of it and stick with facts, I haven't even mentioned my feelings on how unreliable I believe Ram (Dodge, Chrysler) typically are.:muted:
 
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