• Welcome to Jetboaters.net!

    We are delighted you have found your way to the best Jet Boaters Forum on the internet! Please consider Signing Up so that you can enjoy all the features and offers on the forum. We have members with boats from all the major manufacturers including Yamaha, Seadoo, Scarab and Chaparral. We don't email you SPAM, and the site is totally non-commercial. So what's to lose? IT IS FREE!

    Membership allows you to ask questions (no matter how mundane), meet up with other jet boaters, see full images (not just thumbnails), browse the member map and qualifies you for members only discounts offered by vendors who run specials for our members only! (It also gets rid of this banner!)

    free hit counter

MEGA FANGs Cobra AK Power Steering: Doughnuts In Reverse

mtnv900

Jet Boat Addict
Messages
47
Reaction score
12
Points
117
Location
Lake of the Ozarks
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2013
Boat Model
Limited S
Boat Length
24
I have been asked to explain some of the observations I reported in this thread.
Some asked if perhaps my observations were overly optimistic, other suggested that my comments may be just off the wall. LOL. Let me assure you - it wouldn't be the first time! But in this case I must say: au contraire. So far, I don't think I exaggerated much of anything. Let me summarize what I think the important points are.

I think I made the following three (3) major claims regarding the benefits of those new MEGA fins:
  1. Improved reverse
  2. "Power steering" effect
  3. Reduced stress on steering linkages
Speaking strictly for myself (no relation to Jeff, @Cobra Jet Steering LLC ).


1. Claim: Improved reverse
(enhanced steering in reverse and enhanced "breaking"/stopping power)

EXPLANATION
That one is pretty easy - the MEGAs simply focus the reverse jet. The way it works, the reverse thrust is generated by the water "escaping" through the bottom opening in the steering nozzle - when the central/main/back opening of the nozzle is enclosed by the buckets (dropping down).

That water (streaming out of the bottom of the steering nozzle) disperses quickly as it lacks much of any direction. It does shoot backwards somewhat but there is nothing to "channel" or focus that stream.
The MEGAs do that! - the PAIRED MEGAs focus water coming out of the bottom nozzle in the reverse direction, with a slight built-in toe-in alignment.

In other words, without MEGAs that water disperses quickly but with MEGAs (mounted on both sides of the bottom nozzle/opening) water shoots back more directionally and the thrust is substantially enhanced (in the reverse direction).

The total force of the water molecules/energy is of course unchanged, but the vector of their movement is.

(The main fins - MAGNUMs - don't do that as they are positioned further back: MEGAs are sticking forward, MAGNUM are sticking backwards - of the steering nozzles)

So - the bottom line is with the MEGAs there is more push in the reverse direction. Therefore, faster reverse and more "breaking" (stopping) power.

Verdict? I think that claim is legit...


As an aside (and a bit of trivia) and another way to think of this question is in terms of principles of hydrodynamic focusing.
Two Stanford professors, Len (Leonard) Herzenberg and his wife Leonore, who were responsible for developing a technique called "flow cytometry" (a mainstay of modern blood cell diagnostics) used to explain the principle of hydrodynamic focusing in the following way (back when - when I was hanging out with them):
Len would simply point out that hydrodynamic focusing also provides the mechanistic basis for men being able to urinate while standing (generating "stream in the air"). True story. It was too funny.

But back to Cobra fins...



2. Claim: "Power steering" effect

EXPLANATION
The MEGAs stick forward of the "pivot" or axis defined by a line connecting bolts that attach the steering nozzle to the venturi nozzle. Water forces pushing on the MEGAs thus counteract the forces pushing on the MAGNUMs (which are sticking backwards of the "pivot").

In other words - if the line between steering nozzle mounting bolts is the "fixed hinge", or fulcrum, the MAGNUMs become the long(er) arm of the lever and the MEGAs become the short arm. The force of water pushing on the short arm (MEGA) offsets the force needed to turn/push the long arm (MAGNUM) against the water (when driving forward and turning the steering nozzle).
Hence - "power steering" effect or "power assist".

Of course this is not the same mechanism as in automotive power steering, but it is a steering assist nevertheless. Jeff likes to call it "power steering". I don't see anything wrong with that.

Verdict: I think that claim is 100% legit.



3. Claim: Reduced stress on steering linkages

EXPLANATION
This one is a bit more nuanced.

There is no question the MAGNUMs (deployed down at speed) will put additional force/strain on steering linkages in turns (as compared to riding with no fins) as they function essentially as a rudder - which is a good thing.

In this regard, adding a smaller, forward facing MEGAs (positioned on the other side of the "fulcrum") helps balance the larger MAGNUMs - relieving some of that additional pressure on the steering linkages.

Still, MAGNUM and MEGA (on both sides of the "fulcrum") will add lateral force on the pump in a turn (due to centrifugal forces of water molecules - in outward direction). Should that be a concern? I don't think so! - even though there is more lateral force on the pump - that's just like a skeg in an outboard motor lower unit. The pumps' transom mounts must be strong enough to push the boat - if those little fins compromise jet pump mounts I would say one has larger issues to deal with.

As far as the steering linkages themselves, to put this in perspective, Yamaha steering cables seem to last about 10 years on average before they need to be replaced - fins or no fins.

I personally think that those cables break primarily due to internal corrosion, more affected by water intrusion than usage, but more stress is probably not helping. And here - the MEGAs really help the larger fins - reducing the stress on steering linkages.

Verdict: So, this claim is also completely legit, IMO. Albeit fins by definition put more force on the steering linkages, the MEGAs (or any FANGs) offset that force.



Additional points:
  1. In case of an impact, the fins' mounting brackets are the sacrificial (softer) part which "gives" during an impact. Those are easily fixable at home. But at any rate, the articulating keel reaches almost a foot lower than the fins so damaging the hull and the new factory rudder is more of a concern, fins or no fins.
  2. MEGAs do not make the boat turn in any unexpected fashion. In fact, I find the steering to be a lot more controlled. It is predictable and also very sharp - like a race car.

--

Did you have the original fangs installed prior to the mega's? I have the original fangs currently, 1 mounted on the outside of each nozzle, and I never really noticed any difference with those installed. If there was it was very minor and not worth the money IMO. I love the ultimate's but just wasnt overly impressed with the fangs. I'm trying to decide if this upgrade would be worth it.
 

Cobra Jet Steering LLC

Jetboaters Admiral
Vendor
Messages
5,865
Reaction score
5,351
Points
452
Location
Florida
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2021
Boat Model
Other
Boat Length
Other
@mtnv900 To answer your question the second fin does make a large difference although when I first introduced fangs I was more focused on their power steering effect and because of that I thought the inner fangs on a twin engine boat were not going to do a lot in that area as the inner fangs appeared to be positioned behind the hull thus in my view not receiving the flow of water at speed where the power steering effect would benefit you the most.
I was also focused on cost control and I believed I was saving customers an unnecessary added expense.
Over time customers who tried both setups said that the twin setup worked better than the single one in both the reverse and the power steering .
However some were still asking for more influence and as I have stated in many previous threads I always try to be conservative .
In the case of the mega fangs I was addressing the reverse control as much as the power steering effect .
I revisited the two fang per nozzle effect and larger fangs after the amazing reviews of my VIPERS when installed on the 19 foot jet boats.
The VIPERS have longer fangs than the originals used on the ultimate steering setup.
Keeping in mind that extending the fangs forward increases the leverage they apply to the steering.
I also setup the angles of the mega fangs to accommodate the surf point settings on some of the newer boats and to simplify the installation.
From the viper feedback I learned that a 19 foot even with a rudder from the factory had some very big shortcomings in all the areas of steering control from curving or spinning when decelerating rapidly to wandering at planning speed and serious lack of control when being operated in reverse and at idle. The VIPER solved those problems quite impressively.
There are so many different boating styles and so many different boating conditions that there are very few constants so making changes has to be done slowly and methodically.
My first thought for someone wanting more influence in the reverse or power steering effect area with your particular setup ULTIMATES and a single fang per nozzle would have been to suggest adding a second fang per nozzle as they are upgradeable to see how that would work for you .
I recall a few people doing that although now I only have a couple of the original fangs left and I will be replacing them with the mega fangs completely.
I will also be eliminating the option of just one per nozzle and adding other options like stand alone fangs and fangs compatible with other steering systems as a convenience for all Yamaha jet boat owners. I think this mega fang set is all anyone will need regardless of their steering system.
like the new VIPERS it will come down to customer feedback .
 

swatski

Jetboaters Fleet Admiral 1*
Messages
12,806
Reaction score
18,566
Points
822
Location
North Caldwell, NJ
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2016
Boat Model
AR
Boat Length
24
I think this mega fang set is all anyone will need regardless of their steering system.
I couldn't agree more. I feel like I finally have a reverse that is an actual reverse. LOL.

--
 

Evil Sports

Jetboaters Admiral
Messages
1,503
Reaction score
1,133
Points
267
Location
91 North/75 South
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2013
Boat Model
SS
Boat Length
21
Without being near my boat I believe I have Cobra Venom ULTIMATE , what else do I need to get up to date with this stuff??
 

Cobra Jet Steering LLC

Jetboaters Admiral
Vendor
Messages
5,865
Reaction score
5,351
Points
452
Location
Florida
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2021
Boat Model
Other
Boat Length
Other
You need to see if your side force stabilizers have the 4 small mounting holes in them. if they do you just add the mega fangs to the stabilizer plates . If you do not have the holes you could send them to me to get the holes put in or I can send you a print out of where the holes go in each plate or just get new plates. the attached picture is of the regular magnum plate as it is also compatible and the mega fangs and the bottom one is for the ultimate set like your boat has, You can actually install these with the plates on the nozzle, no need to pull them off for the install. These install exactly like the previous fangs on the ultimate steering system mount.
,
 

Attachments

Cobra Jet Steering LLC

Jetboaters Admiral
Vendor
Messages
5,865
Reaction score
5,351
Points
452
Location
Florida
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2021
Boat Model
Other
Boat Length
Other
email me and I will see what I can do it's a slight possibility that I can tell what your order had in it on the exact plates
 

Cobra Jet Steering LLC

Jetboaters Admiral
Vendor
Messages
5,865
Reaction score
5,351
Points
452
Location
Florida
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2021
Boat Model
Other
Boat Length
Other
those are the early 6 hole setup so most likely the base is not compatible however If you send me the fins and the bases I can mod the fins to the 7 hole configuration and mod the base plates for you fairly easily. I assume the boat is up for the winter so all it would take is pull the steering parte send them to me and I can send everything back with all the install info etc and you can put them back together using the 7 hole setup that is in my opinion superior to the way you have them set now
https://jetboaters.net/threads/cobras-on-the-boat.6579/#post-113110
 

Cobra Jet Steering LLC

Jetboaters Admiral
Vendor
Messages
5,865
Reaction score
5,351
Points
452
Location
Florida
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2021
Boat Model
Other
Boat Length
Other
yes the bases will be , the 7 hole fins are just an upgrade for you but have nothing to do with the fangs. I just offered since you would be sending the bases you may as well get the rest done at the same time no charge or anything just killing 2 birds as they say.
 

Evil Sports

Jetboaters Admiral
Messages
1,503
Reaction score
1,133
Points
267
Location
91 North/75 South
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2013
Boat Model
SS
Boat Length
21
Now Im gonna have all that anxiety taking them off and trying to reinstall them :bag:
 

Cobra Jet Steering LLC

Jetboaters Admiral
Vendor
Messages
5,865
Reaction score
5,351
Points
452
Location
Florida
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2021
Boat Model
Other
Boat Length
Other
Not really I will send you all the videos for installing everything and I can include the instructions just remember the thread locking compound on the bottom bolts . and with the mega fangs you may want to keep the fins in the water all the way but you don't have to.
 

Evil Sports

Jetboaters Admiral
Messages
1,503
Reaction score
1,133
Points
267
Location
91 North/75 South
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2013
Boat Model
SS
Boat Length
21
Yeah I might do that, Im not one of those people that has to run my boat at top speed all the time so if I lost a mph or 2 keeping them down no biggie to me.
 

Cobra Jet Steering LLC

Jetboaters Admiral
Vendor
Messages
5,865
Reaction score
5,351
Points
452
Location
Florida
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2021
Boat Model
Other
Boat Length
Other
I am not aware of any loss of speed involved with keeping your fins in the water at speed, they are only 3/16 thick if there was any then I am sure I would be hearing about it
 

swatski

Jetboaters Fleet Admiral 1*
Messages
12,806
Reaction score
18,566
Points
822
Location
North Caldwell, NJ
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2016
Boat Model
AR
Boat Length
24
Yeah I might do that, Im not one of those people that has to run my boat at top speed all the time so if I lost a mph or 2 keeping them down no biggie to me.
I am not aware of any loss of speed involved with keeping your fins in the water at speed, they are only 3/16 thick if there was any then I am sure I would be hearing about it
I did not notice any loss of speed with the MEGAs. I did not test on the same day so can not exclude any small differences. Doing about 51-52mph at WOT (before and after, a couple days apart) - in this cool weather.

--
 

Cobra Jet Steering LLC

Jetboaters Admiral
Vendor
Messages
5,865
Reaction score
5,351
Points
452
Location
Florida
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2021
Boat Model
Other
Boat Length
Other
Here is sort of a breakdown of the various parts involved. Note the variety of bases for different applications and the small holes in those bases for mounting the mega Fangs
 

Attachments

adrianp89

Jetboaters Admiral
Messages
5,270
Reaction score
4,290
Points
382
Location
Tampa Bay, FL
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2021
Boat Model
252SE
Boat Length
25
Any Black Friday/holiday sale on these?
 

Coheeba

Jetboaters Captain
Messages
584
Reaction score
681
Points
207
Location
32408 Panama CIty Beach FL
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2016
Boat Model
242 Limited S E-Series
Boat Length
24
Thanks to @swatski for the review. I am still confused as to what I would need. I have attached a pic of my setup. Jeff if you could please let me know.

Drives 1.JPG Drives 3.JPG Drives 2.JPG
 

Cobra Jet Steering LLC

Jetboaters Admiral
Vendor
Messages
5,865
Reaction score
5,351
Points
452
Location
Florida
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2021
Boat Model
Other
Boat Length
Other
you will need to email me directly but your boat uses the magnum A K steering and mega fangs not the ultimate steering just being accurate. jeff@cobrajetsteering.com
 
Top