Electronics gurus: Theory on false Overheat - AR210

[knoxboatin]

I have an AR-210 with a three-way battery switch. Bilge is wired to battery #2 directly, the engines, display screen, lights, etc are all wired to common off the three-way switch. We have found if we run the switch on battery #2 (same as bilge) we have no problem driving the boat around. If we run the switch on battery #1 (so console display and everything on a different battery from bilge) we end up getting an overheat warning on Starboard engine after 10 min or so of driving the boat. (Oil is full, pissers running fine flow of water, the boat is a 2021, no apparent overheat.)

My theory is that somehow the console electronics get confused if they sense a voltage difference or something between the two batteries, and throw an alert that is mis-interpreted as a starboard overheat. I'm guessing this because the console would have a live connection to both batteries when the switch is in battery #1 position since it has a bilge control switch.

Last year the boat was new and only had an on/off switch and two batteries wired in parallel. Never any problems. A tech from my dealer did not like the setup so this spring he put in the three-way switch for us. Another data point is if I run with battery #2 disconnected and the switch set to battery [HASH=108]#1,[/HASH] everything is fine boating around.

I wanted to use the two batteries as independent options to run the boat. Based on what is happening, it looks like I need to use battery #2 for running the boat, and battery #1 as "house" or maybe just as a backup in case I run down battery #2. Is my theory sound, has anyone run into this on a recent model Yamaha? I validated yesterday about an hour of runtime on battery #2 driving around, all was fine. Last weekend I was trying to run on battery #1 and I got the overheat error and crawled into a rat-hole trying to troubleshoot it and worrying about it. Maybe this post will help someone else. I'm now carrying an infrared thermometer too but got no overheat error on yesterday's outing.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Easily can be a voltage throwing things off. I had issues yesterday with my 195. The house battery is at the end of its life, but someone combined the two batteries. I didn't realize this. My Yamaha screen wouldn't turn on and the Lowrance looked like it had a damaged screen with lines through it. Un-connected the batteries, turned them off and let sit for a few minutes. Turned back on and everything worked fine.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I’m assuming that both batteries are the same size and type?

Is your battery switch the type where both batteries can be combined / paralleled?

If both batteries are in good shape, that points to something going on with the switch. You could try swapping the batteries on the switch and see if the problem reoccurs. It’s not unheard of that new products can have issues.

It’s bizarre that disconnecting battery 2 and running on battery 1 eliminates the problem.

What are the voltages looking like when you try running on the two different batteries?

 

[TimW451]

There was another member recently with a similar problem that disappeared when they physically disconnecting a battery from circuit. Their switch was not wired correctly, so check that too.

 

[knoxboatin]

@FSH 210 Sport yes, batteries are the same and new with the boat last spring (2021). This is the setup.

My theory arose out of it working fine with battery #2 (nearest the switch) disconnected. Since bilge is wired to that, the bilge switch would not be seeing any voltage at all with the battery disconnected. So no conflicting information.

I only have a cheap multimeter so voltage only shows something slightly less than 12 on both.

@TimW451 I could try taking the switch out of the path, yes it is something related to the new arrangement since it ran fine with them in parallel last year. The switches are pretty dumb and mechanical so not sure what the failure mode would be. I bet the 1 & 2 setting would work fine also, since that joins the batteries together. Kind of defeating the purpose but at this point just tired of the false alarms so I am still suspecting the electronics sense some difference between the two batteries and complain. I can deal with it as-is but I had slow-rides back to the marina on one engine a couple times due to worrying about BS overheat warnings unfortunately.

 

[ripler]

Slightly less than 12 volts is almost a dead battery. You either need to charge or replace the batteries

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

@FSH 210 Sport yes, batteries are the same and new with the boat last spring (2021). This is the setup.View attachment 185639View attachment 185640

My theory arose out of it working fine with battery #2 (nearest the switch) disconnected. Since bilge is wired to that, the bilge switch would not be seeing any voltage at all with the battery disconnected. So no conflicting information.

I only have a cheap multimeter so voltage only shows something slightly less than 12 on both.

@TimW451 I could try taking the switch out of the path, yes it is something related to the new arrangement since it ran fine with them in parallel last year. The switches are pretty dumb and mechanical so not sure what the failure mode would be. I bet the 1 & 2 setting would work fine also, since that joins the batteries together. Kind of defeating the purpose but at this point just tired of the false alarms so I am still suspecting the electronics sense some difference between the two batteries and complain. I can deal with it as-is but I had slow-rides back to the marina on one engine a couple times due to worrying about BS overheat warnings unfortunately.

I don’t see an onboard battery charger… how are you charging your batteries between outings?

Buy yourself a good multimeter, or at the very least go to an electronics store and have then check your meter against one of theirs on 12V to see if it is accurate.

 

[knoxboatin]

The boat is kept in dry storage so I don“t have an easy way to keep it plugged in. So unfortunately my plan is to pull each battery every few outings to take home to charge on some kind of a rotation.

I was currently thinking the “main” battery #2 would be recharged by regular boating activity running the engine. And if I switch to “house” battery #1 if we sit in a cove listening to music, we would always be keeping #2 separate to start the boat. Then I would only need to pull #1 every few weeks to top off. We only have the stock stereo. Only change from the picture is I added a ground bus-bar to eliminate the stacked eyelets on battery 2 in case I want to pull that one periodically also.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

The boat is kept in dry storage so I don“t have an easy way to keep it plugged in. So unfortunately my plan is to pull each battery every few outings to take home to charge on some kind of a rotation.

I was currently thinking the “main” battery #2 would be recharged by regular boating activity running the engine. And if I switch to “house” battery #1 if we sit in a cove listening to music, we would always be keeping #2 separate to start the boat. Then I would only need to pull #1 every few weeks to top off. We only have the stock stereo. Only change from the picture is I added a ground bus-bar to eliminate the stacked eyelets on battery 2 in case I want to pull that one periodically also.

There are other threads wherein people are in your situation with battery charging. I know one of the members here installed an onboard charger then got one of those LiFePO power stations with AC outlets on it and plugs that into the battery charger. That’s a big investment though.

There is a company that makes battery knobs that would make taking the leads off and putting them back on the batteries a tool-less affair.

Should be interesting to see if charging your batteries up eliminates your problem. Have you had this problem from day 1 after you installed this new switch?

 

[knoxboatin]

The problem never occurred until the dealer tech installed the new switch. Last year they were in parallel with a simple on/off switch that covered both batteries. The boat runs fine now based on the last outing, unless I try to operate it on battery #1 only. Then it throws the bogus overheat error.

We do spend hours floating in a cove on most of our outings, so the idea of being able to "protect" one battery from getting run down is appealing. I put a 100% charge on battery #1 with a Noco Genius 10 at home before I did a test run on battery #1 only two weeks ago. It spit the error anyway with the battery freshly charged. I'll probably pull battery #2 to take home and run through the Noco on the next weekend.

 

[HangOutdoors]

The problem never occurred until the dealer tech installed the new switch. Last year they were in parallel with a simple on/off switch that covered both batteries. The boat runs fine now based on the last outing, unless I try to operate it on battery #1 only. Then it throws the bogus overheat error.

We do spend hours floating in a cove on most of our outings, so the idea of being able to "protect" one battery from getting run down is appealing. I put a 100% charge on battery #1 with a Noco Genius 10 at home before I did a test run on battery #1 only two weeks ago. It spit the error anyway with the battery freshly charged. I'll probably pull battery #2 to take home and run through the Noco on the next weekend.

Wondering if there is something amiss with wiring somewhere.

 

[knoxboatin]

Thanks @ripler clearly I need a more accurate meter!

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

I would take off the switches and take a look at the wiring. Could be as simple as something loose.

 

[knoxboatin]

Wondering if there is something amiss with wiring somewhere.

Yeah I was tempted to open up the switch cover but reading about them online they just look so dead simple. three posts, common, 1, and 2. Unless you mean wiring under the boat console. I know you have an AR210 do you use a dual battery switch like this?

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Yeah I was tempted to open up the switch cover but reading about them online they just look so dead simple. three posts, common, 1, and 2. Unless you mean wiring under the boat console. I know you have an AR210 do you use a dual battery switch like this?

They are all that simple.

 

[HangOutdoors]

Yeah I was tempted to open up the switch cover but reading about them online they just look so dead simple. three posts, common, 1, and 2. Unless you mean wiring under the boat console. I know you have an AR210 do you use a dual battery switch like this?

Yes I do, with buss bars and fuse blocks and breakers with an ACR. You can read the thread here.

Wiring and Battery Addition | JetBoaters.net - The World's Largest Jet Boat Forum!

 

[HangOutdoors]

@knoxboatin I would recommend reviewing your setup and putting an ACR in as well. Additionally I am not a big fan of those switches. I would wire your start battery only for bilge and engines and the second battery for everything else, throw in a Blue Seas Switch with ACR and be done with it. Basically OFF, ON, Combine, That way you turn the boat on and don't need to screw with switch. The ACR will work on switching between the batteries for charging.

It is a bit more work but a solid setup.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

@knoxboatin I would recommend reviewing your setup and putting an ACR in as well. Additionally I am not a big fan of those switches. I would wire your start battery only for bilge and engines and the second battery for everything else, throw in a Blue Seas Switch with ACR and be done with it. Basically OFF, ON, Combine, That way you turn the boat on and don't need to screw with switch. The ACR will work on switching between the batteries for charging.

It is a bit more work but a solid setup.

Totally agree! Simplify your set up and make it all automatic. Start battery always protected and first to charge when you start engines which usually only takes a couple of minutes, then most of the charge starts going to your house battery.

 

[knoxboatin]

Thanks @HangOutdoors @FSH 210 Sport I had heard about the ACR approach, this is one of those times I kind of wish the boat was in my driveway because it would be a lot easier to work on. The marina can put in on a work rack but this time of year that means sweating over a hot parking lot to try to get anything done. . I'll research the ACR a bit more and read that thread, but for now limp along with my "strategic" use of the battery switch.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Thanks @HangOutdoors @FSH 210 Sport I had heard about the ACR approach, this is one of those times I kind of wish the boat was in my driveway because it would be a lot easier to work on. The marina can put in on a work rack but this time of year that means sweating over a hot parking lot to try to get anything done. . I'll research the ACR a bit more and read that thread, but for now limp along with my "strategic" use of the battery switch.

The OEM Yamaha switch is a BEP marine device that is all in one, start battery, house battery, paralleling switch, and DVSR, super simple to operate and it looks like it would be very easy to install in your application.

Square Battery Distribution Cluster for Single Engine with Two Battery Banks

The 716-SQ-140A-DVSR is an ideal replacement for a battery selector switch. Just remove the selector switch and connect the existing wires to a 716 cluster, no extra wires are required for a fully automatic battery management system. To be used in single outboard dual battery bank or single...

www.bepmarine.com