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Aargh... Milkshake Engine Oil... WTF? (Port Engine, 2016 AR240, ~300 hrs)

B_Mutter

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So I have been following your thread @swatski and maybe I missed it.. but.... we had 2 engines this season that water was getting into the engine oil. One was a 2015 SX240 and the other a 2013 SX192... both with about 300-400 hours on them. When we pressurized the block we actually found the crack to be in one of the mounting bolt bosses. Both engines it was the same bolt hole.. port side 2nd bolt from the front if I can remember correctly. If your marina is struggling to find your problem you might want to pass this along to them. In the 2015 case it was under warranty but not for the 2013.
 

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swatski

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why don’t you go to DFW ? I hear people with good Karma get free boat rentals and free accommodations.
Believe me, my friend, I tried!
But... right now it looks like it's going to be either Seattle or NJ, most likely the latter.
We will reevaluate in a couple of years I promise! lol

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buckbuck

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@B_Mutter Was there any indication of what caused these issues? Do you believe the boats were properly maintained? Any more pictures available? I am having trouble wrapping my head around that location.
 

swatski

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So I have been following your thread @swatski and maybe I missed it.. but.... we had 2 engines this season that water was getting into the engine oil. One was a 2015 SX240 and the other a 2013 SX192... both with about 300-400 hours on them. When we pressurized the block we actually found the crack to be in one of the mounting bolt bosses. Both engines it was the same bolt hole.. port side 2nd bolt from the front if I can remember correctly. If your marina is struggling to find your problem you might want to pass this along to them. In the 2015 case it was under warranty but not for the 2013.
@B_Mutter Bryan, wow! - super helpful, thanks a million!

Interesting, this may not be the only report of the cracked heads (around the bolts?), I linked to some other in skis -posted elsewhere (greenhulk).
My dealer already conducted a pressure test using soapy water, but I'm not sure how exactly it was done, maybe they were focusing on the head gasket at this stage. I will certainly let them know, and if there are any special procedures for the test you used - hope you don't mind I'll share your contacts with them.

Heck, my 2016 was still under "YES", I believe, but either way this would not be the end of the worlds (albeit pricey). I'm assuming you have got good results with both - after head replacement? was it the swap of the entire assembly or were you able to swap the parts? hope I'm not qasking for too much info!

Thanks again, very kind of you to share this!

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swatski

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So I have been following your thread @swatski and maybe I missed it.. but.... we had 2 engines this season that water was getting into the engine oil. One was a 2015 SX240 and the other a 2013 SX192... both with about 300-400 hours on them. When we pressurized the block we actually found the crack to be in one of the mounting bolt bosses. Both engines it was the same bolt hole.. port side 2nd bolt from the front if I can remember correctly. If your marina is struggling to find your problem you might want to pass this along to them. In the 2015 case it was under warranty but not for the 2013.
The other 1.8s with cracks were around the "bung" - see below. (I can;t tell if it is the same location...
I'm going to check with the dealer this week. Ironically, just got an offer from Yamaha to extend my YES, lol, not thinking I'll renew.

I really want to know what happened as we will need to decide whether to keep the boat with our planned move (to a coast). Frankly, at this point I feel like almost no matter what it is I have had enough of so called "bad luck" with this one I would not want to be caught running 100+ miles offshore in this boat. But - I would keep the boat to wake surf. Well, if that is not what killed the engine.
I guess time will tell, Yamaha designed the 1.8 w/o dry sump before wake surfing became a fad, there is enough 1.8 boats surfing now to figure if that's an issue. I just don't have a whole lot of time.

If I don't get some kind of an answer, fairly soon, this boat could be heading to eBay - post a pic of clean spark plugs maybe @veedubtek will bite, lolol. :p

After having looked into this some more I would not be surprised if I've a cracked head, albeit most of those happen in boosted skis.
Here is one (NOT mine) that cracked and leaked around the "bung" resulting in milk shake oil (cured by a new head swap):
View attachment 108673
(again - NOT my yammie)
View attachment 108674

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the MfM

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did I miss an update or are you being an gigantic anal gap ?
He was mad about Fins last year. Still holding a grudge, I guess.
 

the MfM

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Hope you get good news soon @bond,JamesBond
 

drewkaree

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did I miss an update or are you being an gigantic anal gap ?
I'm guessing this goes back to the RIVA Maptuner thread, or perhaps even earlier. It SHOULD just be a case of putting someone on ignore or simply choose to be an adult and not comment on something in the fashion he did, but internet arguments should always devolve into gloating over someone's misfortune, it's the natural way, right? :rolleyes:

IMO, it doesn't matter who is right or wrong in the concocted spat, but the funny part is invoking karma, and following it up with clear joy at the misfortune of another.
 

swatski

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I'm guessing this goes back to the RIVA Maptuner thread, or perhaps even earlier. It SHOULD just be a case of putting someone on ignore or simply choose to be an adult and not comment on something in the fashion he did, but internet arguments should always devolve into gloating over someone's misfortune, it's the natural way, right? :rolleyes:

IMO, it doesn't matter who is right or wrong in the concocted spat, but the funny part is invoking karma, and following it up with clear joy at the misfortune of another.
Nah. Just an unhinged troll. What can you do? It's an internet forum - thicken your skin and ignore the numbnuts, I guess.
Besides, I consider myself pretty lucky having had this (engine trouble) happen so close to my dock - had it happened somewhere else could be a different story.

--
 

2kwik4u

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He was mad about Fins last year. Still holding a grudge, I guess.
I think it was more than that. I can't remember the exact issue, but I remember the two of them having a disagreement and not finding a middle ground. One has clearly taken a higher road than the other at this point though. @swatski and I have had our differences as well, but we let it go. Clearly the other guy not so much.

I hope this works out to be an easy and warrantied fix. I can't imagine there is any negligence here to be worried about. The boat has been well maintained as evidenced by any number of threads here. My bet is on just bad dumb luck with a cracked head.
 

the MfM

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I think it was more than that. I can't remember the exact issue, but I remember the two of them having a disagreement and not finding a middle ground. One has clearly taken a higher road than the other at this point though. @swatski and I have had our differences as well, but we let it go. Clearly the other guy not so much.

I hope this works out to be an easy and warrantied fix. I can't imagine there is any negligence here to be worried about. The boat has been well maintained as evidenced by any number of threads here. My bet is on just bad dumb luck with a cracked head.
We can all argue about two stroke vs four, Yamaha or sea doo, new vs used etc. But the only thing that can cause that level of anger and vitriol is fins.
 

2kwik4u

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We can all argue about two stroke vs four, Yamaha or sea doo, new vs used etc. But the only thing that can cause that level of anger and vitriol is fins.
Dang fins, always causing the drama. Are we all prepared for it this spring as the newest squadron of jetboats is launched and immediately bonked into the courtesy dock by it's new captain? Should we start a support group for victims of fin debates gone wrong?

I feel I'm on the losing end of that battle though, the minority so to speak, so perhaps I should just keep my trap shut?!?! :D :D
 

B_Mutter

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Interesting, this may not be the only report of the cracked heads (around the bolts?), I linked to some other in skis -posted elsewhere (greenhulk).
My dealer already conducted a pressure test using soapy water, but I'm not sure how exactly it was done, maybe they were focusing on the head gasket at this stage. I will certainly let them know, and if there are any special procedures for the test you used - hope you don't mind I'll share your contacts with them.
@swatski the bubbles you see in the pic are actually the water/oil that was bubbling. We removed the valve cover so we could see the cams. We pressurized the block using the small water hose fitting that comes off the side of the block. We have made some block off plates to stop the air from going out of the exhaust. We honestly couldn't find the leak until we removed the valve cover. We knew it was leaking but not out of anywhere we expected. I looked at the pictures you posted and we weren't leaking there. It was actually leaking underneath the bolt that holds the head down. The crack is at the 90deg edge where the head is machined for the bolt head. We replaced the heads as assemblies. It is not cheap at all but the labor of swapping out the parts and doing the valve clearance check/adjustment just isn't worth it in our opinion compared to buying a head assy ready to go. Especially when these happened in August and we only have a month or so left of the season.
 

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The last time I started or got into with someone on this site another member told me that I owed an apology to an entire state because of an opinion I stated based on historical facts and my observations. That was a WTF moment for me. Forced apologies are never sincere in my opinion, they may sound legitimate but the hidden meaning is more like, sorry I got caught, sorry I have to apologize, sorry you have such thin skin, sorry your education has failed you. I took a break from posting here for a few months and focused on other things like work, home improvement, family/high school functions, etc. and found it was one of the best things i have done for myself, friends and family in the last five years. Every hour I spend here is an hour I’m not spending with someone or on something else. In fact I should be working on my boat’s new stereo right now. Currently, I just try not to comment here on hot button issues like race, politics or my way is better than yours arguments which limits the scope of my posts but keeps my blood pressure down. As a husband, father and lawyer/contract negotiator I have no problem finding an argument or one finding me.

As for @gmtech16450yz i don’t know what his beef was/is with @swatski and it really doesn’t matter too me but both have provided good information through this site. Most if not all of of gmtechs mods are just brilliant some have not been replicated to my knowledge (e.g. rod holders over under the fuel tank cover or inline mufflers). I never thought I’d buy rims for my trailer but gmtechs post convinced me to upgrade the rims and tires from the stock 14s” to 15s” this off season (a $1,000 decision based on one well written post). I consider swatski the forum expert when it comes to lucky cones and repitching Impellers at home. If not for swatski I would have purchased 2 cones and that would not have given me the performance results I was after ($700 savings based on one well written response from a guy who has done and posted his research which was not always the case). My point is, everyone one has opinions that they should be able to share that may benefit other members, taking sides with one person or the other in an online argument can easily turn people away/off from this site and deprive everyone else of future contributions from that member. Just something to think about as I keep reading barbs at gmtech while trying to keep up on this string. Maybe gmtech is justified, maybe he is not, I just want to know the cause and the cure for swatski’s current boat problems are since my boat is powered by the same but older engines.

I wish that gmtech would have shared his thoughts, if any, on the subject problem and solution but I wish for a lot of things and I wouldn’t bet on him trying to be helpful after fielding all the barbs. Not one person came to his defense, many put him down, but no one can remember or state clearly what the initial argument was about. Loyalty is or can be funny/complicated. I think gmtechs post in this thread showed a lack of emotional maturity but I do agree with him that Karma is a bitch and will add that karma has balanced out some of the inequities in my life when I was not able to do so directly myself, when it did or does, I smile. Evil? Maybe. Human nature for some, if not all? Absolutely. Rather than put gmtech down the better course of action may be to block him generally and unblock him if he opines on a subject that interests you. Well that my $2 (not cents because there is no penny symbol on my iPad besides $2 doesn’t buy much at and two cents can’t buy anything). I won’t be responding to replies to this post, it’s another way I keep my blood pressure down.

I’m off to walk my dog (aka my four legged daughter) but if I see either of my two neighbors with Tesla super chargers in their garage I will be sure to try and ask them a few questions, like how much did it cost installed and why did you buy a commercial supercharger instead of a less expensive consumer version? These questions arose from another thread that I’m not posting on anymore since a member started attributing statements to me that I never made. I still want my questions answered but unless someone here does the research or more convincingly actually buys and has a Tesla supercharger installed its clear that I won’t get accurate answers from this site and definitely not through that thread.
 

zipper

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Well that my $2 (not cents because there is no penny symbol on my iPad besides $2 doesn’t buy much at and two cents can’t buy anything). I won’t be responding to replies to this post, it’s another way I keep my blood pressure down.
$.02
 

the MfM

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Cent from my iPad
 

gmtech16450yz

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Ok so I'm seriously questioning my sanity here but I'm compelled to explain my comments here for one reason and only one reason... what Ronnie just wrote. I spent a lot of time on this forum trying to share my knowledge and learn from others. My post count to reaction score ratio shows how effective my efforts must have been. I haven't been on here in about a year, except for a post a few months ago showing everyone how I fixed my cracking Shoreland'r trailer fenders.

If anyone wants to waste time reading garbage, these last threads might shine a little light on why I called "Karma" on this thread's subject.




Yes, obviously my "hahaha", "lol" and "more lolz" was pretty harsh. But you all should see by swatski's lack of/delayed response that he knew EXACTLY what I meant and why I said it. For a long time he was my biggest fan. Seriously, like puppy dog following you around fan. I obviously did something to him, to this day I have no idea what, and he turned on me. He turned HARD. He sh!t talked every post I made. He clicked "dislike" on every single post of mine, then after being called out on it, he reversed the dislikes. I tried to tell the membership here what kind of person he REALLY is, but of course I was the bad guy. He's not a good person. I realized with him vehemently against me and everything I said, it didn't make sense for me to stick around. That's why I left. And as Ronnie so perfectly said, life is better when you're not wasting it on internet forums. If I'm not learning and sharing, I'm wasting my time. Swatski ended my learning and sharing on this forum, and in a way I thank him for that. Sometimes you need a reality check on what internet forums really are.

Here is why when I stumbled onto this thread I had so many "lolz"...

1- I spent many posts on here pointing out that tuning ANY engine without logging the results is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS and strongly discouraged it. In case you all have forgotten, that's exactly what swatski did, he had his engines "tuned" (stock calibrations modified) without ANY monitoring of mixtures/knock/exhaust temps/fuel requirements/etc. I tried to tell him this was insanity. I was attacked.

2- Not only has his engine calibrations been modified from stock, many things around and in the engine has been "modified". (I'm being nice and not calling it what it actually was). He's not even using the recommended oil in the engines. (No, we don't need an oil debate here. I have over 4 decades of experience with engine building and failure analysis and MY OPINION is he was using the wrong oil.) The exhaust and intake systems were modified from stock, and again, in my opinion done incorrectly. The cooling system was obviously compromised by these modifications. The exhaust temps were not only compromised by the aftermarket engine calibrations, but by "sound deadening" modifications done incorrectly.

3- This one's not going to be popular on here but he was using the boat in a matter it wasn't designed for. These Yamaha's ARE NOT WAKESURF BOATS. If wakesurfing is the most common thing you do with your boat, you should probably buy a wakesurf boat. lol. Again, this boat was heavily modified to do something it wasn't built to do. It was operated in a way it wasn't intended to be operated. (Don't bother bringing up Yamaha's marketing claims, they're simply that, marketing.)

4- I read 9 pages of people trying to diagnose the issue through the internet. Sorry but that's always funny to me. I know you're all trying to help and be nice, but you can't diagnose anything you can't see or know anything about.

5- The shop that has the boat, supposedly the most amazing shop with the most amazing mechanic working in it has had the boat for weeks (MONTHS?) and still has no idea what's wrong with it. Really?

6- The most amazing shop and mechanic spends time and the customer's money for weeks, gives it back to the customer, he takes it out and quickly discovers IT'S STILL BROKEN. Really? Oh yeah and the 40 quarts of oil was pretty funny too. WTF????

7- The most amazing shop and mechanic has to call Yamaha to figure out what's wrong with the engine. Hahaha. In my 33 years as a GM Journeyman tech I called GM ZERO times to ask them how to diagnose a problem. If you're calling the factory to diagnose a problem, you're lost.

8- Which brings me to the disturbing part... The mention of warranty coverage. IF this engine gets warrantied by Yamaha or YES, it's INSURANCE FRAUD, plain and simple. That's not a laughing matter. You and I all pay for somebodies negligence. I'm not a fan of that.

9- Lastly, here's a quote from swatski from the thread where I cautioned against Riva's tuning without logging...
"The only way to know where the limits are is to go and break them. Then you know."
Yep, he found out the limits.


I'm not going to get into any big battles on here. I explained my obnoxious comments. Take it or leave it, like me or hate me, it's all good. To those like Ronnie that appreciated the things I tried to share on here, THANKS! For those that hang out on internet forums to only gather post counts or sell merchandise, good luck with that. And for people that don't have good, kind, pure souls but instead do things that aren't honest, fair or right and hurt others in the process, Karma's a beeaatch. lol.
 

Dixie Highway

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I’m off to walk my dog (aka my four legged daughter) but if I see either of my two neighbors with Tesla super chargers in their garage I will be sure to try and ask them a few questions, like how much did it cost installed and why did you buy a commercial supercharger instead of a less expensive consumer version? These questions arose from another thread that I’m not posting on anymore since a member started attributing statements to me that I never made. I still want my questions answered but unless someone here does the research or more convincingly actually buys and has a Tesla supercharger installed its clear that I won’t get accurate answers from this site and definitely not through that thread.
@Ronnie I think the Supercharges require a 480 VAC 3 phase input. This COULD be achieved in a residential setting with a 240 VAC 1 phase to 480V 3 phase step up transformer, but most homes wouldn't have 3 phase power available. I also hear they demand about 120 kW, which would likely require a dedicated 3 phase drop and an individual transformer rather than the grouped ones used in neighborhoods. I suppose it's possible though.
 
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