Hard to start

[FSH 210 Sport]

Thanks for all the input guys, I have already talked to a couple guys at Yamaha again and they suggested I take it back to the first dealer I was going to as they are now under new management and supposedly doing better. Oddly enough my starboard engine started the first time when I took it out yesterday. I am beyond frustrated that they told me they did all these checks and could not duplicate and now for the first time since probably April or May it has worked! Hopefully that part is fixed, but my display is working again and I was getting 7200 RPM on the Port engine and 7000 on starboard. So something they did made things better, I still wouldn't call it fixed as I am still topping out at 36mph (which is also faster than the 32 I was getting previously to dropping it off) and for being at sea level those RPMs are still on the very low side.

Glad to hear that there is some improvement, but as you state the rpms are low and should be closer to 8000 on a cooler day at sea level. What was the temperature the last time out?

Hopefully the “new” old dealer will be better…

I can understand your frustration, believe me I can, but, the goal is to move forward and get your engines performing as they should be.. trying not to be preachy, but put that stuff behind you and crack on. Doing the water test with the mechanic is paramount in my mind.

The mechanic should be checking that the ETV (electronic throttle valve) is opening all the way, this is a procedure in the manual.

How’s the oil level? Did you check it with the dip stick screwed in? I think it is important to rule that out straight away.

 

[MrBubbaGump]

The temp was low to mid 80's. If the boat still runs ok I will probably push the issue more in January as Jan/Feb are our cooler months down here where I won't be using the boat as much. Already missed all of Aug/September. I unfortunately did not check the oil level since I got it back so I need to do that next time I'm out.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

The temp was low to mid 80's. If the boat still runs ok I will probably push the issue more in January as Jan/Feb are our cooler months down here where I won't be using the boat as much. Already missed all of Aug/September. I unfortunately did not check the oil level since I got it back so I need to do that next time I'm out.

Right on, checking the oil will get that off the list.

 

[MrBubbaGump]

Resurrecting this tread again with a major update to the saga.... Same problems as before, the boat has been to the dealer a total of 4 times (2 different dealers) of me complaining about the same issues of the starboard engine not wanting to start after sitting in the water for multiple hours. This time the worst of all has happened. The engine again wouldn't start and when I finally got it started it died pretty quickly and the exhaust pipe coupler blew off (Which I figured out once I got it home). So now I took it back to the dealer for the 5th time and I get a phone call from them because they found water in that engine, and they need me to authorize them to do a boil off ASAP to try and save the engine and they don't know if Yamaha will cover it. They stated to me that they have now recently been seeing this on the FSH's and believe somehow water is backing up through the exhaust when it sits in the water and have seen Yamaha cover these in the past. However, he said right now they don't know what the fix is just every once and a while they get a 210 in with water in one of the engines. They believe that the water backed up in mine and when I tried to start it the back pressure blew the coupler off. I'm going to give Yamaha cooperate a call here in a little bit as well to try and get the ball rolling. But this has been a huge issue for me pretty much since I got this boat and now things are looking way worse.

 

[anmut]

That makes very little sense that somehow water is backing up - the hulls and motor placements are the same on the FSH vs. any other models of the same year so it's doubtful to me that something is somehow different in the FSH that would allow that to happen.

 

[MrBubbaGump]

I by no means am a marine expert, and can not explain it. However, based off of my experiences I have been having I felt that is what is happening on my boat. To me with the trouble shooting I had done and the dealerships have done it was the only thing making sense to me. Why would it have trouble starting only after sitting in water with engines off for hours. Like you suggested up until now both dealers I took it to told me that couldn't happen. Fast forward to today and I am now being told that I am not the first one and they have seen a few FSH boats come through with this exact issue of water backing up when the boat is off and sitting in the water.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I by no means am a marine expert, and can not explain it. However, based off of my experiences I have been having I felt that is what is happening on my boat. To me with the trouble shooting I had done and the dealerships have done it was the only thing making sense to me. Why would it have trouble starting only after sitting in water with engines off for hours. Like you suggested up until now both dealers I took it to told me that couldn't happen. Fast forward to today and I am now being told that I am not the first one and they have seen a few FSH boats come through with this exact issue of water backing up when the boat is off and sitting in the water.

Maybe this has been covered, has anyone checked the pick up coil ohm readings ? In my mind this should be checked cold and hot.

 

[David Martin]

The exhaust blowing apart is a vary good clue as to your starting problem. Yamaha engines have resonator type tuned exhaust systems and if the baffles inside are clogged / leaks it can retain water and cause high back pressure on the engine causing poor start and poor rpm performance.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

The exhaust blowing apart is a vary good clue as to your starting problem. Yamaha engines have resonator type tuned exhaust systems and if the baffles inside are clogged / leaks it can retain water and cause high back pressure on the engine causing poor start and poor rpm performance.

Wonder if anyone has checked that?

 

[MrBubbaGump]

Great suggestions so far, yeah I am not sure about either of those. I would like to think these have been addressed but for some reason I doubt it. I got Yamaha corp involved again so hopefully we can have some dialog in the next few weeks while we figure out why this is continuing to happen with no resolution as of yet maybe this bigger issue will be a blessing in disguise and we can actually get it fixed.

 

[MrBubbaGump]

Got an update today on the boat, it's a step in the right direction. Yamaha has acknowledged multiple cases on the 210 FSH of water backing up through the exhaust while the boat is off and in the water. As it turns out my theory was correct, the only issue is that they do not have a fix at this time, but they are "working on one." In the meantime, they suggest putting the boat in full reverse and "gunning it" for a few seconds before turning it off, and that should clear anything out and create enough back pressure that it won't fill up. Additionally, they suggest trying to make sure the boat does not rock from side to side while off. I'm not sure how easy either of those things will be while anchored out / backing up to the sand bar, but after 1.5 years of dealing with it at least they are acknowledging the issue.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Got an update today on the boat, it's a step in the right direction. Yamaha has acknowledged multiple cases on the 210 FSH of water backing up through the exhaust while the boat is off and in the water. As it turns out my theory was correct, the only issue is that they do not have a fix at this time, but they are "working on one." In the meantime, they suggest putting the boat in full reverse and "gunning it" for a few seconds before turning it off, and that should clear anything out and create enough back pressure that it won't fill up. Additionally, they suggest trying to make sure the boat does not rock from side to side while off. I'm not sure how easy either of those things will be while anchored out / backing up to the sand bar, but after 1.5 years of dealing with it at least they are acknowledging the issue.

Definitely sounds like a step in the right direction, and if those suggestions are a decent work around then call that a win along with acknowledgement. Was this isolated to any particular year?

The backing up thing sounds counter intuitive but hey if it works then that’ll do pig.

I assume you have checked the rubber fingers that are on the exhaust outlet to make sure all the fingers are there?

Let us know how you make out.

 

[MrBubbaGump]

They did not say if it was isolated to a particular year at this point. I agree with the reversing thing, but I think it's the fact they want you to go full throttle, and telling someone full forward right before you turn it off could end a lot worse.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

They did not say if it was isolated to a particular year at this point. I agree with the reversing thing, but I think it's the fact they want you to go full throttle, and telling someone full forward right before you turn it off could end a lot worse.

Right on… So they are wanting you to blow water out of the water locks…. I have to wonder if this contributes to other hard starts in other boats?

Agreed, when going full throttle in reverse, which is limited to like 4500 rpm in reverse doesn’t really move the boat a whole lot right away.

I‘ve only had two occasions where I had trouble getting my engines started.

Thanks for the update!

 

[anmut]

Got an update today on the boat, it's a step in the right direction. Yamaha has acknowledged multiple cases on the 210 FSH of water backing up through the exhaust while the boat is off and in the water. As it turns out my theory was correct, the only issue is that they do not have a fix at this time, but they are "working on one." In the meantime, they suggest putting the boat in full reverse and "gunning it" for a few seconds before turning it off, and that should clear anything out and create enough back pressure that it won't fill up. Additionally, they suggest trying to make sure the boat does not rock from side to side while off. I'm not sure how easy either of those things will be while anchored out / backing up to the sand bar, but after 1.5 years of dealing with it at least they are acknowledging the issue.

Now that's interesting - thanks for sharing. I was on our local river that was running fast and high due to current weather. I had the stern pointed into the current for about three minutes with the motor off while I contemplated if we were staying at the sandbar or not. We decided to leave, and my port engine did the famous hard start.

I've always attributed this to running the motor without letting it cool in the past, because it never hard starts after a period of stopping - but has done it if the motors get shut off during a watersport or lengthy travel without letting it cool.

I still don't understand how a hard reverse maneuver before turning it off would prevent the boat from taking on water while the motor is off - maybe it blows out the water boxes?

EDIT: Now that I'm thinking about it - extended no-wake before shutting off the engine (to "cool" the motor) probably clears the water box out enough to create the back pressure. Might be easier to leave the boat in N before docking and run No Wake Mode 3 for a few seconds.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Any updates @MrBubbaGump ?

 

[anmut]

Update to my experience over the 4th of July weekend with the hard starting issue and suggestion to blow the water out of the exhaust before turning the key.

Over three days we burned 37 gallons of fuel, mostly pulling wakeboards and surfers. After all but one pull/rider pickup, I had made a point to go into Neutral and then hit No Wake Mode to level 3 before shutting off the engine. I did this without allowing a "cooling period" on the motor just as a test.

Every time I used this method both motors fired up without issue, and seemed to do so quicker than a cold start. The one time I didn't do it, I had a hard restart on the port motor - took three attempts to fire it back up.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Update to my experience over the 4th of July weekend with the hard starting issue and suggestion to blow the water out of the exhaust before turning the key.

Over three days we burned 37 gallons of fuel, mostly pulling wakeboards and surfers. After all but one pull/rider pickup, I had made a point to go into Neutral and then hit No Wake Mode to level 3 before shutting off the engine. I did this without allowing a "cooling period" on the motor just as a test.

Every time I used this method both motors fired up without issue, and seemed to do so quicker than a cold start. The one time I didn't do it, I had a hard restart on the port motor - took three attempts to fire it back up.

Thank you for the input! Sounds like that method really paid dividends for you! How long did you run at Level III before returning to idle and shutdown?

I do not really have a regular hard start issue, but, sometimes the engines are a bit lazy to restart after trolling for hours then just shutting the engines down, I tried going full throttle in reverse for a few seconds just to experiment a bit and each time the engines started right up. I’ll check out the no wake method next time I’m out.

Again! Thanks for the input!

@Leojay

 

[anmut]

Thank you for the input! Sounds like that method really paid dividends for you! How long did you run at Level III before returning to idle and shutdown?

I did not really have a regular hard start issue, but, sometimes the engines are a bit lazy to restart after trolling for hours then just shutting the engines down, I had tried going full throttle in reverse for a few seconds just to experiment a bit and each time the engines started right up. I’ll check out the no wake method next time I’m out.

Again! Thanks for the input!

@Leojay

10-15 seconds at most. And to clarify, I would run NWM up to level three and then back down to off before killing the motors.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

10-15 seconds at most. And to clarify, I would run NWM up to level three and then back down to off before killing the motors.

Right on thanks! I imagine it doesn’t take too much time at, what?, 2100 rpm to remove a lot of the excess water in the locks. I think about when I blow the water locks out on the hard, and usually the first blip of the throttle makes for an audible splash on the ground, with the second or third resulting in a different exhaust note and higher idling rpm… granted that is on the hard.

If this is the fix for the hard start that so many have experienced then it is a huge deal. It would make sense how the motors act like they are flooded, but are just struggling to get started with a “banana up their tail pipe”.. extra credit if you know that quote LOL!