Important Warning about Ethanol Labeling Manipulation

[sunbyrned]

Found this June 1 article warning boaters to take note of what they’re actually putting in their gas tanks. Apparently there’s an effort underway to change the laws regarding ethanol labeling.

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[anmut]

So called 88 octane is labeled 15% in Wisconsin pretty clearly, wonder how that's confusing?

 

[fatboyroy]

Here in florida we have blue nozzle that clearly state "Ethanol Free". It's usually separate from regular pumps.

 

[sunbyrned]

So called 88 octane is labeled 15% in Wisconsin pretty clearly, wonder how that's confusing?

Do they label that as “regular”? I think that’s what they’re saying is confusing the consumer.

 

[tkeru408]

Here in florida we have blue nozzle that clearly state "Ethanol Free". It's usually separate from regular pumps.

I think part of their concern is the reduced and weakened labeling part; i.e. it won't be labeled pretty clearly in the future.

That being said, I don't think any stations in our area even carry 88 octane. We do have some places with non-ethanol and that's what I use for the boat and lawncare equipment.

 

[Beachbummer]

Alternate names:

Iregular-88
Drunken 88 - With 50% more Alcohol!

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

The use of ethanol in motor fuels is still vexing to me. It’s supposed to make cars run cleaner, but ethanol has half the btu’s of gasoline, only a govt could mandate higher mpg from the car manufacturers while mandating a fuel that has less energy. Add to that it takes 1.3 units of energy in to produce 1 unit of energy out in ethanol. Call me crazy, but that means its a net gain of emissions. Interestingly in the article, it mentions the repeal in 2019 of E15 use during summer, apparently it produces more ozone aka smog in the summer ??!! Wait what? It produces more smog, but it’s supposed to be a cleaner fuel… can’t make this stuff up.

The ethanol industry aka the farm bureau is always looking for more govt handouts, this started with FDR when farmers got paid to burn oranges and slaughter millions of pigs to drive the consumer prices up.. go figure. So now they want to increase the amount of ethanol used in fuels to create greater demand for their product..

Where I live 88 octane is non ethanol, there also 85 and 91 non ethanol. I blend 91 and 85 together in the correct amounts to get 86. All of the non ethanol fuels are clearly marked. The ethanol laced fuels, mainly 87, are clearly marked. There is also E85 here for the flex fuel cars that Ford and Chevy make. Again, way less btu’s in this fuel so way less mileage, and it’s not that much less that regular gas, doesn’t make any sense at all.

I did not know that it was illegal per fed law to use E15 in certain power sports or lawn equipment due to the damage it causes to those fuel systems. I can tell you that E10 has caused me several issues, lost a fuel pump regulator on my dirt bike, carburetors completely destroyed by this fuel as well.

Thanks for the post, it is enlightening information !

 

[sunbyrned]

The use of ethanol in motor fuels is still vexing to me. It’s supposed to make cars run cleaner, but ethanol has half the btu’s of gasoline, only a govt could mandate higher mpg from the car manufacturers while mandating a fuel that has less energy. Add to that it takes 1.3 units of energy in to produce 1 unit of energy out in ethanol. Call me crazy, but that means its a net gain of emissions. Interestingly in the article, it mentions the repeal in 2019 of E15 use during summer, apparently it produces more ozone aka smog in the summer ??!! Wait what? It produces more smog, but it’s supposed to be a cleaner fuel… can’t make this stuff up.

The ethanol industry aka the farm bureau is always looking for more govt handouts, this started with FDR when farmers got paid to burn oranges and slaughter millions of pigs to drive the consumer prices up.. go figure. So now they want to increase the amount of ethanol used in fuels to create greater demand for their product..

Where I live 88 octane is non ethanol, there also 85 and 91 non ethanol. I blend 91 and 85 together in the correct amounts to get 86. All of the non ethanol fuels are clearly marked. The ethanol laced fuels, mainly 87, are clearly marked. There is also E85 here for the flex fuel cars that Ford and Chevy make. Again, way less btu’s in this fuel so way less mileage, and it’s not that much less that regular gas, doesn’t make any sense at all.

I did not know that it was illegal per fed law to use E15 in certain power sports or lawn equipment due to the damage it causes to those fuel systems. I can tell you that E10 has caused me several issues, lost a fuel pump regulator on my dirt bike, carburetors completely destroyed by this fuel as well.

Thanks for the post, it is enlightening information !

Dude, thanks for this reply. I learned more from you than the article. I’m going to start paying attention to what I’m doing. I just usually take 87 and be done with it, but maybe I should look for other options.

 

[mrcleanr6]

Non ethanol is illegal here in nj. You wont find non on the water or for your car. Only way you can get non e fuel is to buy vp in pails but then your really paying big money @ about $12 a gal. We inly have 87, 89 and 93 here too. In a rare instance you may find 91 but its been years since i have seen it

 

[fatboyroy]

I think part of their concern is the reduced and weakened labeling part; i.e. it won't be labeled pretty clearly in the future.

That being said, I don't think any stations in our area even carry 88 octane. We do have some places with non-ethanol and that's what I use for the boat and lawncare equipment.

Yes and that is for mixed ethanol now it says up to 10% and in the future wouldn’t disclose percentage but they cannot do that with non-ethanol cause it’s obviously 100% gas, for those that have non-ethanol gas in their state is an option if you want to know exactly what fuel you putting in your boat

 

[drewkaree]

So called 88 octane is labeled 15% in Wisconsin pretty clearly, wonder how that's confusing?

I think it depends on the station's ownership and what's easiest for them to comply nationwide. Many have it listed as E-85 for what you're referring to, but I've definitely seen places in Wisconsin that have it right next to the 10% - still with stickers all over, but with videos out there showing people doing circles around the pump trying to get their fuel filler door on the right side to easily fill up, I can see some goofball putting the wrong stuff in. Where I used to work, we had a guy put diesel in the DEF tank. He had stopped at a gas station where the spout for car/truck diesel fit into the DEF tank. Caused about $12k in total damage costs. The damn cap is BLUE, for crying out loud, and marked DEF.

"Those who think you can make something foolproof have never met a determined fool".

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Dude, thanks for this reply. I learned more from you than the article. I’m going to start paying attention to what I’m doing. I just usually take 87 and be done with it, but maybe I should look for other options.

I highly recommend a product called Star Tron. It comes in a blue translucent bottle, I think they even make a marine version. After I lost the fuel pressure regulator in my dirt bike, I used ST religiously where I used to live as you could not get non ethanol fuel there. Basically, it prevents phase separation, that is when the water logged ethanol drops out of suspension in the fuel and makes a nice sludge on the bottom of the tank where your fuel pick up is. Since that time, my bike sat for long periods of time with the ST in the fuel and I never had another problem. If memory serves, on the bottle it states that it will keep fuel stable for up to two years.

I don’t know if you remember or not, a automotive chemical company called McKay used to have a fuel system water remover that you could dump in your tank, it was alcohol/ ethanol / or maybe even methanol. Water binds instantly with alcohol, and the McKay alcohol product would simply bind with the water and flow through the fuel system.

Fun fact: ever see a fire at an indy car race? Well you can’t see it cause its methanol, anyway they just have 5 gallon buckets of water sitting in the pits, and if there is a fire you are supposed to just jump around and your team mates will throw water on you and the fire is out, that is how fast water binds with alcohol.

Thankfully now I have access to non ethanol fuel. That being said the last fill up I made was with 87 octane 10% octane fuel, about half a tank, because I was on a trip and needed the fuel. I’ll be burning that off here in the next month or so. Capt Obvious here, the biggest problem is when the fuel is stored for a long time and in our case is around moisture.

I’m glad you got something out of what I wrote!

 

[Betik]

The use of ethanol in motor fuels is still vexing to me.

You touched on it and it bloods down to politicians buying votes. Just like $2,500 proposed EV incentive is tighter to factories with unions. The politicians are deep into it now that none dares to back away from it.

What is even more interesting it’s that we are turning food into fuel. Try to picture how many corns were used for you and me to tubing with our kids while someone else’s kids in Africa are dying of malnutrition.
But hey that is okay because we will send them a bunch of vaccines for free. Which off course is because we care and it not self interesting

 

[sunbyrned]

I highly recommend a product called Star Tron. It comes in a blue translucent bottle, I think they even make a marine version. After I lost the fuel pressure regulator in my dirt bike, I used ST religiously where I used to live as you could not get non ethanol fuel there. Basically, it prevents phase separation, that is when the water logged ethanol drops out of suspension in the fuel and makes a nice sludge on the bottom of the tank where your fuel pick up is. Since that time, my bike sat for long periods of time with the ST in the fuel and I never had another problem. If memory serves, on the bottle it states that it will keep fuel stable for up to two years.

I don’t know if you remember or not, a automotive chemical company called McKay used to have a fuel system water remover that you could dump in your tank, it was alcohol/ ethanol / or maybe even methanol. Water binds instantly with alcohol, and the McKay alcohol product would simply bind with the water and flow through the fuel system.

Fun fact: ever see a fire at an indy car race? Well you can’t see it cause its methanol, anyway they just have 5 gallon buckets of water sitting in the pits, and if there is a fire you are supposed to just jump around and your team mates will throw water on you and the fire is out, that is how fast water binds with alcohol.

Thankfully now I have access to non ethanol fuel. That being said the last fill up I made was with 87 octane 10% octane fuel, about half a tank, because I was on a trip and needed the fuel. I’ll be burning that off here in the next month or so. Capt Obvious here, the biggest problem is when the fuel is stored for a long time and in our case is around moisture.

I’m glad you got something out of what I wrote!

Interesting. I did see the big fire at the car race. I was a kid, probably 12 or so. It was fascinating to me and I started burning alcohol just to learn more about it. I always put in Fuel Med whenever I put gas in.(87) I wonder if that treats the gas like your Star Tron. Any idea? I honestly didn’t know that 10% ethanol was a bad thing.

 

[sunbyrned]

You touched on it and it bloods down to politicians buying votes. Just like $2,500 proposed EV incentive is tighter to factories with unions. The politicians are deep into it now that none dares to back away from it.

What is even more interesting it’s that we are turning food into fuel. Try to picture how many corns were used for you and me to tubing with our kids while someone else’s kids in Africa are dying of malnutrition.
But hey that is okay because we will send them a bunch of vaccines for free. Which off course is because we care and it not self interesting

Yep, politics and money.

 

[drewkaree]

I highly recommend a product called Star Tron. It comes in a blue translucent bottle, I think they even make a marine version. After I lost the fuel pressure regulator in my dirt bike, I used ST religiously where I used to live as you could not get non ethanol fuel there. Basically, it prevents phase separation, that is when the water logged ethanol drops out of suspension in the fuel and makes a nice sludge on the bottom of the tank where your fuel pick up is. Since that time, my bike sat for long periods of time with the ST in the fuel and I never had another problem. If memory serves, on the bottle it states that it will keep fuel stable for up to two years.

I've used it for quite a while, and I'm close to needing to buy again, got about a quart left. Can recommend. I got a pump to go right in the gallon, best way I've found to dispense it. Price is still right around the same on Amazon, I haven't found the gallon size out in the wild.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Interesting. I did see the big fire at the car race. I was a kid, probably 12 or so. It was fascinating to me and I started burning alcohol just to learn more about it. I always put in Fuel Med whenever I put gas in.(87) I wonder if that treats the gas like your Star Tron. Any idea? I honestly didn’t know that 10% ethanol was a bad thing.

Looks like it is supposed to treat ethanol laced fuels.



I use these products now in my gasoline fuel with each fill up.

https://www.amsoil.com/p/upper-cylinder-lubricant-ucl/

This one for long term storage.

https://www.amsoil.com/p/gasoline-stabilizer-ast/

 

[sunbyrned]

Looks like it is supposed to treat ethanol laced fuels.

View attachment 152435

I use these products now in my gasoline fuel with each fill up.

https://www.amsoil.com/p/upper-cylinder-lubricant-ucl/

This one for long term storage.

https://www.amsoil.com/p/gasoline-stabilizer-ast/

Good to know. I’ve been using Fuel Med each time. I’ll make the switch. Thanks!

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Good to know. I’ve been using Fuel Med each time. I’ll make the switch. Thanks!

Good to know. I’ve been using Fuel Med each time. I’ll make the switch. Thanks!

Is non ethanol fuel an option in your area?

 

[Tjw961]

Certainly not saying this site has all the right answers as it's not been accurate for where I live, but here is a website that is "supposed" to tell you where to get non ethanol gas in your area. Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

If anyone has any others please post as for now I'm not able to find any non ethanol and would certainly like to get some for my boat and lawn equipment as well without paying crazy prices at the home improvement store.