Surf setup 2015 242LS

[swatski]

Question for you guys. We are trying to deflect the jet was, right? Last year I tried attaching one of my boat fenders between the tie down and the ladder, problem is that my boat fender has a diameter of no more than 6 or 8 inches leaving it far away from the jet wash. I'm thinking of trying to do that same thing with a larger boat fender such as:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N0S542J/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=

What do you think?

Yes it could help with the spray but probably not much with the wake. The wake benefits from delayed convergence action of the wedge, flap may help a tad, but the wedge does it really well.
I'm not an expert so this is purely my opinion, of course.
I think the flap is very useful and easy, so it is just about optimizing the size shape and angle of attack.

To me, the real game changer is going to be the tabs' mods. I'll to post some of the prototypes I'm gearing up for testing, you will see what I mean, it's a bit strange looking concept.
I need to get off my phone, at one of my daughters concert.


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[swatski]

Just wanted to plug in a little preview of my top secret surf-tabs project. I've been working with local metal fabricators, usually a pit-stop on my way to work - it's been fun. Hope the OP doesn't mind, we have hijacked the heck out of this thread anyway, LOL.

This is how I like to start my days (the guys at Shapiro Metals and Gerling Welding are awesome):



The idea is pretty simple, basically modifying a conventional trim tab. If it works, one would not need to choose between conventional tabs (used for adjusting attitude for cruising) and surf tabs, which allow listing the boat on purpose (and delayed convergence).

I have 3 maybe 4 versions of a surfing extension in various stages of development. My favorite is the one below ("the beast"). It is the most aggressive version (and frankly pretty freaking awesome little gizmo), we will see how it does this weekend. Assuming it will not sink my boat, LOL.

Here is a preview:


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[Scuba_ref]

In the immortal words of Dr. Frankenstein, "It is Alive!"

 

[jcyamaharider]

Not sure what to say about this........guess I will just see what transpires out of it.

 

[swatski]

Not sure what to say about this........guess I will just see what transpires out of it.

Patience you must have, my young Padowan.

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[Scottintexas]

This is how I like to start my days (the guys at Shapiro Metals and Gerling Welding are awesome):

But do they let you touch any of the machines ?

 

[swatski]

But do they let you touch any of the machines ?

Not yet. But they might at some point, LOL.

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[Scottintexas]

Not yet. But they might at some point, LOL.

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"PLEASE don't make us tell you again, you MUST stay BEHIND the yellow lines"

 

[Bill D]

Just guessing by the dude welding in shorts and a tank top, this doesn't seem like a place that has yellow lines.

 

[jcyamaharider]

He is just getting his tan on early.

 

[Bill D]

It's still February in Missouri right? Lol

 

[KXCam22]

That dude IS the safety guy. Cam.

 

[swatski]

Here is "The Beast" mounted before testing today (strbd side):


Basically, this one is a prototype of a thrust-er mod for my trim tabs, inspired by the GSA (go surf assist/wakemaker) gizmo. Except mine is on steroids, LOL. The idea is simply to make a tab conversion kit, "cruising-to-surfing".
(Surfing tabs are not designed for cruising and most systems default to full retraction over 15mph -- to save tabs and the hull).

I'll try to post more info on exactly what I'm doing, but basically with my limited time for testing I decided that using the most audacious variants is going to be the most efficient way to quickly triage ideas and approaches. The Beast is a good example - an exaggerated knock-off of the awesome GSA system (working very well in several types of hulls). I figured if the biggest prototype I can install shows no effects - I might as well go in a different direction.

With this one - we may be up to something good. TOday was a very cold and very busy day, and ended up running with only about 1,500 lbs of ballast (which, as you know, is nothing). But still got an pretty crazy wave:


The Beast was deployed only about a third of the range down, causing very impressive commotion (bad) and some delayed convergence effects (good) on the non-surf (strbd) side, but any further deployment - it was causing too much fuss, useless.


The lesson learned is to moderate my approach... And I've also managed to convinced myself that getting a great wave behind a Yamaha without listing the boat (using big tabs only) is a pipe dream. (So, I'm over that.)

Next time, I need more ballast and warmer weather! (between setting up the tabs, flap, and ballast I thought I was going to freeze to death).


And then..., there was this. My favorite anchor (of some 15 years) and the snag:
(some old steel cable... )


I wasn't going to give it up and ended up fighting for it for about an hour... before I was able to pull that sucker up.

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[CrankyGypsy]

I very much enjoy watching this mad scientist endeavor develop! keep up the dedication and good work.

 

[jcyamaharider]

Here is "The Beast" mounted before testing today (strbd side):
View attachment 51976View attachment 51977

Basically, this one is a prototype of a thrust-er mod for my trim tabs, inspired by the GSA (go surf assist/wakemaker) gizmo. Except mine is on steroids, LOL. The idea is simply to make a tab conversion kit, "cruising-to-surfing".
(Surfing tabs are not designed for cruising and most systems default to full retraction over 15mph -- to save tabs and the hull).

I'll try to post more info on exactly what I'm doing, but basically with my limited time for testing I decided that using the most audacious variants is going to be the most efficient way to quickly triage ideas and approaches. The Beast is a good example - an exaggerated knock-off of the awesome GSA system (working very well in several types of hulls). I figured if the biggest prototype I can install shows no effects - I might as well go in a different direction.

With this one - we may be up to something good. TOday was a very cold and very busy day, and ended up running with only about 1,500 lbs of ballast (which, as you know, is nothing). But still got an pretty crazy wave:
View attachment 51978

The Beast was deployed only about a third of the range down, causing very impressive commotion (bad) and some delayed convergence effects (good) on the non-surf (strbd) side, but any further deployment - it was causing too much fuss, useless.
View attachment 51980

The lesson learned is to moderate my approach... And I've also managed to convinced myself that getting a great wave behind a Yamaha without listing the boat (using big tabs only) is a pipe dream. (So, I'm over that.)

Next time, I need more ballast and warmer weather! (between setting up the tabs, flap, and ballast I thought I was going to freeze to death).


And then..., there was this. My favorite anchor (of some 15 years) and the snag:
(some old steel cable... )
View attachment 51979

I wasn't going to give it up and ended up fighting for it for about an hour... before I was able to pull that sucker up.

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In the pic of the wave it looks like you strated a turn to clean the wave......????

The way a wave looks is one thing, the way a wave feels is another. You can have a great looking wave but it can still have no push. That is why you need the boat deeper in the water to displace the water. For a bigger guy like myself I need all the push I can get.

Just giving you some info on what I have learned over the years I have surfed behind these boats.

 

[swatski]

In the pic of the wave it looks like you strated a turn to clean the wave......????

The way a wave looks is one thing, the way a wave feels is another. You can have a great looking wave but it can still have no push. That is why you need the boat deeper in the water to displace the water. For a bigger guy like myself I need all the push I can get.

Just giving you some info on what I have learned over the years I have surfed behind these boats.

Yes, I might have been turning, and I was all over the place with speeds, too. But the point is - with the particular setup I was running - deploying the beast (tab mod) seemed to help (a lot) with making the wave look cool. Overall, the mod made the wake better (at certain deployment angle).

Basically, moving that modified tabs influenced the wake, substantially, and that's really all I needed to know. Knowing that, I think it is possible to redesign and optimize the tab to enhance the wake in a Yamaha. Right now I'm just trying to decide which approaches are actually worth pursuing. To my (somewhat) surprise, the surf modded trim tab just made the list! In other words: "normal" trim tabs can be modified for wake enhancement - I believe this is the first for Yamaha. That said, I also confirmed to myslef that ballast-listing (and lots of it) is the only way to surf Yamaha, unavoidable.

Can't wait to see other results with the flap, but I think the @COtoFLsurf pretty much nailed it.
I like what I see with mine though - with the 30deg angle rather than strait down. I may also trim it still, but need to wait for warm weather and dial it in action. The Wedge (WW) still rules, no doubt.

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[swatski]

Here is an example of the surf tab (GSA) that has been shown to work well for wake enhancement in a variety of hulls. I believe this concept will also work for our Yamaha hull, based on what I have seen yesterday.



Problem is, those can only really be used under 15mph, so no good for cruising.

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[swatski]

So, coming up next: The Mini-Beast (surfing thruster mod)
It is in the works but I would like to figure out a way of mounting it onto a tab without using hook-bolts, LOL. Thinking of some kind of cam-clamp?

I think the Mini will be amazing, once it's dialed in. All you would need is the custom trim tab, great for cruising, and the Mini thruster would just mount on top of it in seconds.

BUT -- I also need to sort out my ballast situation (before hand - to make further testing productive).

In the meantime, if anyone wants to borrow my flap device - the testing could continue uninterrupted. It is mounted onto a stainless steel square tube and pretty heavy, shipping is not an option unless someone wanted to arrange that. I have two sets of braces, a strait down (SS) and a ~30deg (Aluminum) w/all the hitch pins and casters you will need. Basically - no modifications of the boat are necessary whatsoever - just mount and play.

I think it might be cool to see how much better the Wake Wedge performs vs the flap if anyone was interested - nudge nudge.

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[jcyamaharider]

So, coming up next: The Mini-Beast (surfing thruster mod)
It is in the works but I would like to figure out a way of mounting it onto a tab without using hook-bolts, LOL. Thinking of some kind of cam-clamp?

I think the Mini will be amazing, once it's dialed in. All you would need is the custom trim tab, great for cruising, and the Mini thruster would just mount on top of it in seconds.

BUT -- I also need to sort out my ballast situation (before hand - to make further testing productive).

In the meantime, if anyone wants to borrow my flap device - the testing could continue uninterrupted. It is mounted onto a stainless steel square tube and pretty heavy, shipping is not an option unless someone wanted to arrange that. I have two sets of braces, a strait down (SS) and a ~30deg (Aluminum) w/all the hitch pins and casters you will need. Basically - no modifications of the boat are necessary whatsoever - just mount and play.

I think it might be cool to see how much better the Wake Wedge performs vs the flap if anyone was interested - nudge nudge.

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LOL, my boat is still all tucked away with all of the bags out and no stereo. Plus I still need to do oil changes and spark plug changes. On top of that getting the new 210 series bar built for fitment and my daughters ATV finished up.

 

[COtoFLsurf]

Hey guys, been out doing what we do in the Keys in February, which is get out on the water in the 83F weather. ;-) Seriously, have not been getting notifications and looks like a ton of activity on this thread. Appears most questions have been answered, but here are my comments FWIW:

- I used 14" only because that is what I had used before, it worked for me so did not do further testing on larger/smaller flap
- the 2" aluminum tubing is not a tight-fit, there is a little slop which is totally fine and which can be minimized by the poly "shim" material between aluminum and hull. In fact, if I had some seadek laying around I would have used that instead of the cutting board material.
- @swatski, very interesting on the impact on acceleration, mine reduces acceleration a tad but certainly nothing severe, and totally unnoticeable while riding.
- starting with larger flap is safe since you can easily cut it down until you are happy
- we surf in the morning then typically hit the sandbar, so leave it on rest of the day going 40+ mph thru ocean/bay chop with no problem and no significant performance hit
- this does not replace ballast, so interesting to see pics at speed but the real benefit is cleaning up the face once the boat is weighted and listed.
- at 20-23 mph wakeboard speeds with 1500# ballast, we definitely have reduced rooster tail at 70'-75' rope lengths
- my #1 priority was something simple that would help on both sides of the boat, this works nicely for us, hopefully it will work for some of you as well
- LOVE to see someone succeed with delayed convergence on our boats, my testing was unsuccessful, I previously built DIY surfgates for my Mastercraft X30 and Centurion Typhoon but something about the 242LS hull and/or twin drives just didn't seem to work (consistent with jcyamaharider's experience witht Ronix wedge.)

Happy March 1 !!!