SurfPointe

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

@ swatski do you recall the picture I sent you a while ago of a huge wake that was created by one of my customers who had one nozzle aimed inward using his magnum A K system. I don't know what I did with the picture but all he did was aim one nozzle in to create that. I also recall Yamaha saying that you can aim your nozzles inward for a big wake so it really did not use any different nozzle to my knowledge

 

[swatski]

@ swatski do you recall the picture I sent you a while ago of a huge wake that was created by one of my customers who had one nozzle aimed inward using his magnum A K system. I don't know what I did with the picture but all he did was aim one nozzle in to create that. I also recall Yamaha saying that you can aim your nozzles inward for a big wake so it really did not use any different nozzle to my knowledge

Crap, I don't recall...! I think I would remember it - if I saw it - you certainly have MY FULL ATTENTION, Jeff!

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[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Yes this was about a year ago you said the wake had air in it so you were not interested in trying it.

 

[swatski]

Yes this was about a year ago you said the wake had air in it so you were not interested in trying it.

Darned. I must find it!


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[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I think I deleted it but I seriously sent it to you because I figured you may be interested in it but you did not appear to be

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I can not locate the picture but I recall what he did, he had a boat like yours and the same a k steering with the fangs, he set the right nozzle straight and set the left one with it towed out in the front angling the jet wash toward the center of the wake using the fins on the nozzle to capture water and direct it toward the center of the wake along with the jet wash when that water hit the other jet wash it made a big wave, since you like that sort of thing I figured you would appreciate it so I sent the picture to you, you were not interested saying the wake looked like it had air in it so I said forgetaboutit.
In any event you can always try it yourself since you have 2 tie rods just measure the setting so you can return it to it's proper setting when you are done, hell just cut a small piece of p v c pipe down the middle and make a guide that is cut to the exact length between the locking nuts on the rod for a gauge so you can easily return it to it's correct position after you try this
Take either of the tie rods depending on what side you want to create the wave and shorten it, simply undo one end and loosen the locking nuts so you can try moving the ends in closer thus adjusting the tie rod to various lengths until you make the wake you like, set that rod and when you are done just reset it back where it belongs. If you cut a piece of p v c pipe you can match one of the halves to the original length and use the other to locate the distance that you chose for making your wake, so there is your homework assignment. lol

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

oh as a side note he was not even using any ballast just the nozzles and fins to make the wake so with ballast I could just imagine the wake you could make, I was actually surprised that you were not interested . But I figured you of all people would know if it was worth perusing.

 

[swatski]

I can not locate the picture but I recall what he did, he had a boat like yours and the same a k steering with the fangs, he set the right nozzle straight and set the left one with it towed out in the front angling the jet wash toward the center of the wake using the fins on the nozzle to capture water and direct it toward the center of the wake along with the jet wash when that water hit the other jet wash it made a big wave, since you like that sort of thing I figured you would appreciate it so I sent the picture to you, you were not interested saying the wake looked like it had air in it so I said forgetaboutit.
In any event you can always try it yourself since you have 2 tie rods just measure the setting so you can return it to it's proper setting when you are done, hell just cut a small piece of p v c pipe down the middle and make a guide that is cut to the exact length between the locking nuts on the rod for a gauge so you can easily return it to it's correct position after you try this
Take either of the tie rods depending on what side you want to create the wave and shorten it, simply undo one end and loosen the locking nuts so you can try moving the ends in closer thus adjusting the tie rod to various lengths until you make the wake you like, set that rod and when you are done just reset it back where it belongs. If you cut a piece of p v c pipe you can match one of the halves to the original length and use the other to locate the distance that you chose for making your wake, so there is your homework assignment. lol

I feel dumb, lol. This does sound really good. I guess I did not see it.
Indeed, the way you are describing this setup, come to think of it, it could be exactly what the SurfPoint does with the wake deflection - except in this case the system is uni-directional, and "on steroids".

I will need to read this again while looking at the stern/pumps.

If this really works - boy, that could be an incredible system.

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[swatski]

oh as a side note he was not even using any ballast just the nozzles and fins to make the wake so with ballast I could just imagine the wake you could make, I was actually surprised that you were not interested . But I figured you of all people would know if it was worth perusing.

I just did get it. Not a rare occurrence, actually. (just ask my wife)
It really sounds good and definitely worth pursuing. I think.

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[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Well you have the same boat and the same steering he has so give it a try, you may need to do it in small increments maybe start with 1/2 inch to get the angle correct but it will definitely make a big wave and you don't need to go buy anything to play around with this setup.
Actually I never thought any more about it until I started reading this thread today and then I thought of that email I sent you and this thread sort of contradicted what you originally said about the angled wake so I thought I would mention it once more. Glad I did.

 

[swatski]

so I thought I would mention it once more. Glad I did.

I'm really glad you did!

I don't know how much thread I have to shorten the rod, 1/2" maybe pushing it, but I will definitely be trying this.
I would also need to adjust the steering cable, correct? Or just temporarily disconnect on the site that will be angled/toe-out?

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[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I do not believe you need to bother with the cable the nozzles have enough free play but You can see when you try it , nothing was mentioned about the cables.

 

[Rod5]

I did basically the same thing, top of page 3 of this thread. One could try going more extreme by disconnecting one of the cables and using the tie rods for more toe in. I went up to one inch toe in,but had steering stop binding issues when one nozzel bottoms out against the stop before the other nozzel does. This does make a positive difference in the wake.
Also adjusting just one side does only half the work because you will end up with the steering wheel cocked to equal Librium until the boat goes straight

 

[swatski]

Also adjusting just one side does only half the work because you will end up with the steering wheel cocked to equal Librium until the boat goes straight

That is what I was thinking, too.
I'm so bummed out I somehow missed or lost the pics that Jeff mentioned, DUH!

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[Rod5]

I seem to remember reading about 2 years ago someone on here taking to a Yamaha engineer who said 10 degree toein improved the wake without sacrificing performance. Trouble is how does one measure 10 degrees? Is that 10 degrees each or 5 degrees each totaling 10?

 

[swatski]

I seem to remember reading about 2 years ago someone on here taking to a Yamaha engineer who said 10 degree toein improved the wake without sacrificing performance. Trouble is how does one measure 10 degrees? Is that 10 degrees each or 5 degrees each totaling 10?

I'm thinking one side 10deg. That seems to be in line with Jeff's take on it, too.

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[Blenderhead]

I'm thinking one side 10deg. That seems to be in line with Jeff's take on it, too.

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Maybe I missed it... but is the toe in adjustment on the surf-side jet?

 

[swatski]

Maybe I missed it... but is the toe in adjustment on the surf-side jet?

I think it would be, yes. But we lost the pictures of someone apparently actually trying it!!!

The general idea is to deflect wake-side jet stream towards the non-wake-side - inducing delayed convergence.

EDIT: So, the Surf Point does it on both sides such that it does not require and adjustments and can be permanently left alone.
One issues with the one-sided toe-in/out is that the boat may want to be turning and one would need to compensate by steering - potentially wrecking the wake surface with the non-surf-side jet.

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[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I do not believe they were anywhere out of true like the post by rod5 and all that adjustment would certainly make it track to one side , however I wonder if both nozzles were aimer out in front approximately 1/2 inch or less would be viable, I looked everywhere for the original e mail and I just do not think I saved it after you said it would not be a good wake due to the air in it. I get a lot of emails but this one screamed forward me to swatski so I did. But in either case if the nozzles are not way out of sync and evenly set using the fins with the surfpoint should make it more pronounced one would think it would also avoid pulling so maybe you can give that a try.

 

[Blenderhead]

I think it would be, yes. But we lost the pictures of someone apparently actually trying it!!!

The general idea is to deflect wake-side jet stream towards the non-wake-side - inducing delayed convergence.

EDIT: So, the Surf Point does it on both sides such that it does not require and adjustments and can be permanently left alone.
One issues with the one-sided toe-in/out is that the boat may want to be turning and one would need to compensate by steering - potentially wrecking the wake surface with the non-surf-side jet.

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So, at least in my boat... it has tendency to veer left anyway....so adjusting the toe-in on the surf side may correct the natural left drift AND delay convergence for the surf side wake. (looks good on paper anyways)