This looks pretty effective and it won't rip your pump off

[OperationROL]

Happy New Year!
So, what happened there?

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@swatski If this is what I think it is, the boat owner was leaving the marina (in your neck of the woods) and the fins got caught on a submerged object. The pump was destroyed and the boat itself sustained about $2k in fiberglass damage. This was right before a Shelbyville gathering and the owner rode with me the first day. His dealer (St. Charles Boat & Motor), knowing he would be out of a boat during a boating even, did the impossible and repaired and deliverd his boat to the gathering witnin a few days and stayed for the rest of the gathering. Talk about customer service.

 

[swatski]

@swatski If this is what I think it is, the boat owner was leaving the marina (in your neck of the woods) and the fins got caught on a submerged object. The pump was destroyed and the boat itself sustained about $2k in fiberglass damage. This was right before a Shelbyville gathering and the owner rode with me the day. His dealer (St. Charles Boat & Motor), knowing he would be out of a boat during a boating even, did the impossible and repaired and deliverd his boat to the gathering witnin a few days and stayed for the rest of the gathering. Talk about customer service.

The SCBM Jerry is a great guy, I love that place - hence my "like".
But the picture is confusing... No damage to the fins? This looks like a case with the bottom bolt popping out...
With my AKs/ Fangs I had those bent once and had them fixed by Cobra with no damage to the pump or anything else. DOn't know what I hit but I think I ran harder and shallower than most, different fins though - all the new Cobras have the mounting plate/brace that I think is kind of sacrificial to bend on impact.

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[OperationROL]

But the picture is confusing... No damage to the fins? This looks like a case with the bottom bolt popping out...
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Yeah, @swatski the angle of the picture @JCampbell posted doesn't show the damage well, but here's one I kept from back then. It's clear it's not the bolt drop issue.

 

[swatski]

Yeah, @swatski the angle of the picture @JCampbell posted doesn't show the damage well, but here's one I kept from back then. It's clear it's not the bolt drop issue.
View attachment 86231

Yep, the steering nozzle is busted! But where was the impact on the fins?
Any pics of the hull/ride plate damage?
Not to challenge you, or anybody, but $hit can happen... with or without the fins...


I have been called a detractor by both sides in this debate, lol. I just like to separate facts from opinions.

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[OperationROL]

Yep, the steering nozzle is busted! But where was the impact on the fins?
Any pics of the hull/ride plate damage?
Not to challenge you, or anybody, but $hit can happen... with or without the fins...
View attachment 86243

I have been called a detractor by both sides in this debate, lol. I just like to separate facts from opinions.

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@swatski, you hit the nail on the head. The fins suffered very little damage. Damaged fins would have been the best scenario. I usually don't get wrapped up in these issues and would rather not start posting pictures for people to debate. Back when this happened, I advised the owner not to post in fear that it would start a debate. So, I am going to follow my own advise and let this be. However, I am sure Jerry still has pictures of the work he did and can show you the next time you visit SCB&M. He can also explain why he made the conclusion about the cause of the damage.

 

[swatski]

@swatski, you hit the nail on the head. The fins suffered very little damage. Damaged fins would have been the best scenario. I usually don't get wrapped up in these issues and would rather not start posting pictures for people to debate. Back when this happened, I advised the owner not to post in fear that it would start a debate. So, I am going to follow my own advise and let this be. However, I am sure Jerry still has pictures of the work he did and can show you the next time you visit SCB&M. He can also explain why he made the conclusion about the cause of the damage.

Absolutely!
But in all fairness, these products have evolved and changed very substantially.


All newest Cobras hang off of a sacrificial brace that bends on impact (and I know it first hand!), also sitting well above the factory rudder (AK) that many people have already broken.

Also - consider this (because I think it is funny!): as ill-conceived as the title of this thread may be, the new Surf TVs are actually a "down-at-speed" (or "down-all-the-time") type...
So, it's a crazy world we live in! lolol

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[the MfM]

*nylon bolts

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Just an update here, I have been busy with family visiting from Minnesota including a few of my many grand children and 4 foreign exchange students who accompanied my daughter that really wanted to go play on the water.
They are now on their way back and I will be happy to first explain the difference between a nozzle deflector and a jet pump, as it appears some people don't know or are using the words pump very loosely intentionally or otherwise.
Also some of the responses confirm that this needs to be addressed. Along with other causes and effects for broken nozzle deflectors including sub moves with the older nozzles with the aluminum reverse gates .
Also the difference between my early stainless systems that were phased out 8+ years ago and replaced with my current systems.
I will get to all this when I have time . But you can be assured that I will be handling this directly. And looking forward to it I might add. And NO nylon bolts please.

 

[the MfM]

This is like watching a slow speed train wreck,

Yet I can’t keep myself from poasting... Pics of the pump ripped off mentioned in thread title?

 

[Scuba_ref]

I don't think so. The title is taking a low blow at Jet Boat Pilot's new Wake TVs but the pics show damage caused by cobra fins....ironically!

Having had both types of fins I prefer the ones that will give prior to breaking my boat.

With regards to the Wake TVs, Will has always, in my opinion, delivered above and beyond any expectation he set in the presales period with his products. So, I prefer to reserve judgement until we actually have a product in the wild. But then I don't have revenue stream at risk!

 

[DavisAR195]

I wasn't necessarily speaking of it having much downforce but more so shear force laterally across the tow bolts. It certainly would not see the same forces as the reversed hydrofoil of the Malibu/Axis Wedge, I was only using it as a means to explain the reinforce to account for forces . Honestly I think the tow bolts would likely be fine as I do crank on my rear tie down straps quite a bit. But .....better to be safe than sorry because if the tow loop does somehow get ripped or sheared off I imagine that would be a ton of water that would flood into the bilge, especially ballasted heavy, and likely too much for the stock bilge pump to keep up with. It's probably not likely to ever happen but we also didn't think towers would come loose and nearly kill owners either heh.

Take these pictures below of a broken tab of the Scarab wedge which acts very similar to how the Yamaha (and your DIY project) work by diverting water from the side of the hull across the rear towards the jet(s). Now, clearly these pieces aren't anywhere as beefy as the tow eyes and bolts but just shows there is certainly a force there to keep in mind of, I know that when I tried my DIY surf gate at 11 mph there was a considerable amount of force being applied, of course different force entirely as mine stuck out beyond the hull to get a lot of surface area exposed to water. The rear tab broke on this one and I'm not sure if the side tab did as well.

View attachment 86211

View attachment 86212

View attachment 86213

View attachment 86214

For reference this is what the Scarab wedge normally looks like...

View attachment 86215

View attachment 86216

What you have shown in the pictures is much different then the rear tie down and a serious design flaw by Scarab. The three tie down points (one on the bow and two on the stern) are how the boats are lifted and placed on the trailers generally.

 

[the MfM]

I don't think so. The title is taking a low blow at Jet Boat Pilot's new Wake TVs but the pics show damage caused by cobra fins....ironically!

Having had both types of fins I prefer the ones that will give prior to breaking my boat.

With regards to the Wake TVs, Will has always, in my opinion, delivered above and beyond any expectation he set in the presales period with his products. So, I prefer to reserve judgement until we actually have a product in the wild. But then I don't have revenue stream at risk!

I can’t keep up with all the various bolt on improvements, has anyone got a pic of a ‘wake TV’?


I can’t imagine a design that bolts on and is able to rip a pump out of a boat.

 

[Scuba_ref]

I can’t keep up with all the various bolt on improvements, has anyone got a pic of a ‘wake TV’?


I can’t imagine a design that bolts on and is able to rip a pump out of a boat.

Look in this thread:
https://jetboaters.net/threads/jetboatpilot-has-something-new-coming-soon.19903/

 

[swatski]

What you have shown in the pictures is much different then the rear tie down and a serious design flaw by Scarab. The three tie down points (one on the bow and two on the stern) are how the boats are lifted and placed on the trailers generally.

I would not want to lift my Yamaha using those stern U-bolt tie downs (under the swim deck)...

The one in the bow for the winch and bow post is reinforced, the two under the swim deck are NOT. They are really meant to prevent the stern from lifting off of the trailer riding over bumps, but those is not structurally enforced. I am not aware of any issues with those with the Gatlin Wake Wedge, but the wedge does not put up any huge forces if properly setup. As far as the Yamaha WakeBooster - well, that remains to be seen but I would think they know what they are doing. Most of the time.

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[swatski]

Will has always, in my opinion, delivered above and beyond any expectation he set in the presales period with his products. So, I prefer to reserve judgement until we actually have a product in the wild. But then I don't have revenue stream at risk!

Well... after months of teasing a revolutionary surfing mod turned out to be a manual pump deflector/plate(?) mounted between the two fins. I am all for simplicity! but this product, the way it works, just screams possible issues... IDK.

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[haknslash]

I would not want to lift my Yamaha using those stern U-bolt tie downs (under the swim deck)...

The one in the bow for the winch and bow post is reinforced, the two under the swim deck are NOT. They are really meant to prevent the stern from lifting off of the trailer riding over bumps, but those is not structurally enforced. I am not aware of any issues with those with the Gatlin Wake Wedge, but the wedge does not put up any huge forces if properly setup. As far as the Yamaha WakeBooster - well, that remains to be seen but I would think they know what they are doing. Most of the time.

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Totally agree.

BTW I found the pics of @Bill D 's previous owner of his boat. You can see the plate he added to reinforce the rear tow hooks.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

One day I was driving my car and I hit a pot hole , my tire blew out from the impact. Or same incident different description.
One day I was driving my car and I hit a pot hole that ripped my front end off.
Pumps can not be ripped off . I recall a time many years ago when a customer caught a nozzle on a dock line that was in the water , the dock line became entangled in his old style fins, the end result was the nozzle broke off when he pulled forward.
I had a customer with the same old style steering on his 21 foot Yamaha, he was running up a river and a downed tree was blocking his way so he decided to jump the tree, bending a set of the old style fins but did not harm his nozzle. I repaired the fins for him and he had no other issues. The early stainless fins were extremely popular and there are many probably thousands still in use today.
While towing some of the students in a tube earlier today I passed by one of my original customers homes so I stopped and took a picture . Now remember I stopped selling those over 8 years ago when I redesigned my steering systems , now I sell my most popular Ultimate systems ,my Magnum systems , my Magnum A K systems, My Ultimate A K systems, MY 2019 versions of those systems and the various viper systems.
There is a lot of history regarding steering systems and the progress of these back on the old Yamahajetboaters.com site ,however I do not know if you can even view any of that site if you are not a member.
Now there are many posts about the steering comparisons from one to another, https://jetboaters.net/threads/thrust-vectors-or-cobra’s-that-is-the-question.19692/#post-337602
https://jetboaters.net/threads/cobra-jet-vs-thrust-vector.13179/
https://jetboaters.net/threads/cobra-jet-vs-thrust-vectors-another-perspective.19816/
https://jetboaters.net/threads/cobra-jet-steering-vs-thrust-vector.14821/
https://jetboaters.net/threads/impact-of-cobra-venom-magnum-ak-series-on-wake-shape-and-size.13442/#post-233973
https://jetboaters.net/threads/cobra-jet-ultimate-ak-w-mega-fangs-plus-review.19567/
Ok so there are just too many to list but do your homework. And the pictures I took today of the old steering are below. I also have one of a 19 foot with the rudder broken off from hitting an oyster bar, the customer decided to just forgetabout it and leave it broken . he decided to install Ultimates and use those in place of the original rudder.

 

[Wisefam22]

Please tell that man to get his gelcoat shined up. Hurts seeing it... I know it sits on a lift in the sun, but ouch:/

 

[swatski]

Totally agree.

BTW I found the pics of @Bill D 's previous owner of his boat. You can see the plate he added to reinforce the rear tow hooks.

View attachment 86247 View attachment 86248 View attachment 86249

To make it worse, in the new 2015+ 240/242 hulls those U-bolts/tie downs are nearly inaccessible.
Here is a pic of the STRB U-bolt taken with a phone held under the transom with a fully extended arm...

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[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Please tell that man to get his gelcoat shined up. Hurts seeing it... I know it sits on a lift in the sun, but ouch:/

That is funny because I thought someone may say something about the dull finish when I was taking the picture. I see him using it often as there is a cove where everyone wake boards and skies etc. just to the west of his home. I somehow doubt he is too worried about it . I am sure if he wanted to he could just go pay cash for a new boat any time he wants.