Wiring safety concerns and tips

[FloJet]

So I have a safety tip for everyone. This is kinda embarrassing on my end as I made a very stupid rookie mistake and it almost cost me my boat.

Few weeks ago I started a fire in the AR and my baby boat was at risk. By the blessings of God it only burned wiring that was inadequate and weak. It was a painful lesson to learn but a good lesson tho.

While hooking up my Led wiring I got tired and lazy and didn't watch what I was doing. I ended up wiring a on/off switch backwards. Once I turned my batteries on, I SMELLED smoke. Looked behind the helm and damn a freaking fire. Quick thinking, got the fire extinguisher out, but ironically that wouldn't work. Had a bottle of water I threw on the flames and thank God it went out. Got some water on my amps and other wires but no aftermath damage.

I was blessed that it only burned wiring and nothing else on the boat. I did a thorough cleanup and re wired everthing.

Now for the safety concerns. I went big on all wiring. Everything is fused together. One thing I've never done in the past but did on this current install is, everything is SOLDERED together.

It takes longer to solder but folks I'm telling you don't skimp on this. I recommend everyone to solder all there wiring together and use shrink wraps with them. This will protect you invests without hassle. I've learned that using wiring crimps is not always the best route. With a moving bouncing boat, those can come lose. Besides the wiring connections to my amp, every bit of wiring that is used to attach to something is soldered now. Even tower speaker clamp wiring is soldered together. I've gone over the top on all wiring. All amps have 4 gauge wiring powering them. Every one of my equipment has fuses in their power wiring. I have 3 LED bluetooth controllers and even those have fuses between them. I'm not taking any chance with any equipment now.

Some times we put a big load on our batteries and systems and don't fully plan out the safety procedures. This should be everyone's top priority before you even starting talking about what subs to run. First question should be what's the biggest power wiring I need to go. Than shut offs/fuses, then play that route in your head again and again. Take no chances folks.

Budget is a big issue for many of us. So I always say go slow and within budget but don't rush and don't go cheap. I'm one of the biggest cheap skates out there but I've learned now It's not worth it. If I have to wait a year to get something so I can get the best in terms of reliability, I will wait. For me used to be cheap is the best. Well it's not the case anymore especially when it comes to electronics. That's one main reason I went WS for my tower speakers. I was not doing cheap and wasting money down the line. I hope everyone can take a lesson from my stupid mistakes and not replicate what I did. It almost cost me big and I would have been devastated. I always knew someone upstairs is watching over me.

 

[Julian]

Interesting...why did your fuse not blow before the wiring caught fire? Was it because you crossed wires accidentally and thus eliminated the fuse?

Are you saying that soldering connections prevents fires?

 

[FloJet]

No I rushed and that was the only thing I didn't had a fuse as I forgot. When I crossed wired the issue arised.

I'm a fan of soldering because it gives solid connections that are less likely to come apart than crimps. By no means I think that will prevent fires. I've ran into few of my crimps that came loose. Not a good idea if it does and hot wires start touching things.

Soldering just gives me little more piece of mind now days. $10 soldering gun and some time is all lol.

 

[haknslash]

Was it a Kidde fire extinguisher by chance? I know a lot of you guys on here use them and I really wished those who do wouldn't if they are the cheap plastic valve types typically found a WalMart and boat stores. Even if you had used a dry chemical ABC unit near your electronics and put the fire out, you would just be opening up another potential can of worms with corrosion from the dry chemical. I carry both sodium bicarbonate (for brush fires or something near me) and halon (for my boat use) extinguishers in my boat made by my work here.

I design these things for a living and you will never find me using a cheap Kidde or similar unit you find at Wal-Mart or marine stores. I remember one came with my sea-doo many years ago and while out playing in the pass the coast guard stopped me for a safety check. Made me test the extinguisher and sure enough it had leaked down. It was cheap without a pressure gauge and made of plastic valve body.

Glad you did not burn down your boat and were able to put it out!

 

[FloJet]

I'm not sure what brand it is. Whatever the dealer installed. After that I got it working so now I need two new ones. Any recommendation of ones will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Julian]

@haknslash What do you recommend for a halon fire extinguisher?

 

[haknslash]

I work for Amerex and we do not sell to the public and are solely through a distribution network. You can find our products on Amazon though they are through private sellers that are not part of Amerex distribution network. IMO we make some of the worlds best extinguishers and I'm not just saying that because I work there. We don't use any plastic in our valves or valve assemblies and we always use a pressure gauge. I use what pilots and the aviation industry use as those planes and jets are super expensive to replace and if there is a fire they don't want to scrap an entire plane because of possible corrosion from dry chemical. Most of them use our Halon or halotron units. They are pricier than your average dry chemical fire extinguisher though but how much you value your life and property is up to you. Be warned though they are clean agent and it removes all phases that create a fire including oxygen, so you don't want to be in a confined space for long if using a clean agent.

 

[haknslash]

@haknslash What do you recommend for a halon fire extinguisher?

Here is our product catalog that shows all of our models and sizes for portable units http://amerex-fire.com/upl/downloads/library/product-catalog.pdf

At a minimum I would get a 2.5 LB extinguisher. Something like a C352TS or run one of the larger 5 lb B355T. There is also a 3 lb C354TS that comes with a hose instead of nozzle only. All of those are anodized aluminum valve bodies and units that will fight Class B and C fires (fuel and electrical). We have larger units that are chrome plated brass valve bodies that fight Class A, B and C rated fires (Combustible rubbish, Fuel and Electrical). Most of your larger yachts and power boats engine rooms will use a similar clean agent fire suppression system typically with FM200 agent. Halon is of limited surplus due to government regulations so other clean agents have come along the way like FM200 and Novec1230 during those years as a Halon and Halotron I replacement.

Be clear though I'm not trying to advocate you guys spend your money on our products. We will see no benefit from any sales. I just see a lot of bad products out in the field and you guys should not be using ANY extinguisher that has plastic valve and valve assembly components or one that does not have a pressure gauge or some form to know if it's charged or not. Many of these box store extinguishers are stripped down to save money but are often poorly designed as a result. I don't care if you guys buy Ansul or whoever just make sure it's a quality product and is the right chemical for the job. Sure dry chemical can certainly be used but only if it's a last ditch effort on my boat as I would use other chemical like a clean agent first and foremost to preserve any electrical integrity of the boat and wiring, switches, PCB boards, etc plus it is excellent at fighting fires.

 

[swatski]

Fuses may or may not be useful with LEDs as those draw very little power, even on fire. Not saying not to fuse the circuit! Just can't trust it and rely on it for protection completely.
@FloJet are you sure you had the polarity reversed? I had a problem with an LED light in my previous boat, and it was wired correctly - but sounded kind of like what you had. I could never figure it out, there was no fire but it sparked and ruined the whole circuit.
I have learned to test those things with all the LEDs wired before an install.


@FloJet - also big thank you for sharing! Those are really good reminders!

--

 

[FloJet]

Well I'm not 100% sure it was the reversed polarity but process of elimination pointed there tho. May also had a loose hot wire. On those 3 prong on/off switches there is only one way all the can be wired. When I looked I had the positive on ground prong. So I was thinking this was the cause. Luckily the wires were so thin the fire didn't get out of control. My other wires had thick insulation so most of my other wires were saved. I just replaced the ones that got damaged or saw any signs of intrusion.

 

[Julian]

@haknslash perhaps you could start a new thread on the topic of fire extinguishers? I'd never really thought about the differences...and I've wondered about the position of the fire port on my boat, and the access my fire extinguisher would have to it - with no hose it would have to lay on its side and perhaps not deliver a full load. So one with a hose and "clean" would probably be much better!

@FloJet great tips...especially true for small crimped wires!

 

[2nazt]

Biggest thing to remember also is in an electrical fire is to kill the power at the main disconnect. This prevents the feeding of the Fire, makes sure your or someone else doesn't get shocked causing more issues and also stops spread from other wiring that was damage.

Also as @haknslash stated if it was a dry chemical extinguisher make sure you look at all electronics it touched as it will cause a lot of corrosion on those surfaces.

Glad you contained and stopped the fire. Look real close at other connections and wires that where in the area.

 

[KXCam22]

That is a scary heads up and i need to check my boats fire extinguisher. I disagree with the solder though. While it does work, solder melts when wires get hot. In my world, any connection has to be a mechanical crimp. I agree that the plastic butt_splice type wire ends are crappy. The safest method is to use non-insulated ones with heat shrink. The plastic always interferes with the crimp accuracy. What most people do not know is that you can easily cut off the plastic with a knife since the connector is the same inside. With the un-insulated connector you can then easily inspect the crimp, give it a tug test, then put on your heat shrink for a 100% connection. Hope this helps. Cam.

 

[biglar155]

One more thing on the topic of fire extinguishers: Try one out once. Find out if your local FD ever does any kind of public training events and go to it. My employer does annual training. We get to use an extinguisher to put out a big pan of fuel oil that they light off. Everyone gets a fresh extinguisher (gives them a chance to cycle our extinguishers and service/recharge them).

The first time I ever tried it, another noob and I both emptied our extinguishers and the fire wasn't out yet.

Fast forward to last year's training. I walked up with my buddy after everyone else was gone. The instructor wasn't in a hurry so we had time to toy around. I was able to put the fire out 5 times with the same extinguisher while my buddy (a noob) took a full bottle and just barely got it out.

This is why I carry 2 extinguishers on my boat. (Now that we're discussing it, I'm also going to consider investing in a better unit. I had an FM200 system installed in my Data Center at work so I'm familiar with the whole "clean agent" thing. It really is better than the mess a dry chemical extinguisher makes.)

Yet another thing: Turn those dry chemical extinguishers upside down and pound on the side for a minute or two with your hand. Do that once in a while to make sure the powder isn't compacted to the bottom of the extinguisher (a particular concern on our boats where the bouncing can cause the compaction).

 

[Jgorm]

Fuse all wires! It's way better to oversize the wire than the fuse! Be careful with "tie ins" where you have a large wire and fuse, but tap into it for something else with smaller wire. That needs an inline fuse properly gauged for the wire size.

 

[buckbuck]

We definitely need one of you smart guys to do a write up with pictures concerning fire extinguishers. I just checked mine and it is 'good' but it is the cheap type that @haknslash described. And it is 9 years old.