Another Example to Start Carrying a Gun On My Boat

[Ronnie]

I’ve been on the water jetskiing and boating here in California for over 30 years. I have seen and been involved in some unique situations but never have I felt that pulling a gun was the appropriate response to any of those situations.

If I was in the 74 year old mans shoes, I know I would not have shot that 20 something because I don’t have a gun to shoot him with. At the same time he would not have to worry about being shot by me, whether I was justified or not. That said, if I’m ever in that 74 year old’s situation and I live to tell about it, I will also have a gun onboard from that day forward. Once bitten twice shy. Currently, I would rather risk taking a beating from a young dumb drunk guy than live the rest of my life wondering if, although justified, I could have and should have handled it without killing him. Keep in mind the above is from the perspective of once being a young dumb drunk guy and whose only child, a son, will be 20 years old in the very near future.

 

[haknslash]

Crazy story but not surprised in this day with how crazy and upside down the world is. For those having a hard time justifying shooting someone that is attacking you I suggest a YouTube channel that is a great learning tool. It’s called Active Self Protection on YouTube and they post some crazy videos that usually is of escalations that go bad but he details things to look for and indicators an attack is coming. Been watching his videos for many years and it’s definitely showed me #1 people are barbarians in nature and can do heinous crimes at unimaginable times and #2 to ALWAYS think about situational awareness especially in transitional places.

Good riddance to this thug who was living the criminal life.

 

[dgfreeze]

Speaking of the burden of guilt, in the case of having killed someone in a justified manner, there’s two sides to that coin. What if the perp had killed your wife or child? What if, after assaulting, but not quite killing you, you found out he went on and killed someone else? Would you then be riddled with guilt for not having had a means by which to stop the threat, whether by killing or even just wounding him? I see the guilt train going both ways for myself. There are unspeakably evil people in this world, and ignoring that threat can bring just as much guilt as shooters remorse (given it was justified). It brings to mind a documentary I watched about the Vietnam War, a sniper was detailing his account of the war, and how he somehow missed a guy who he believed he had dead to rights. Awhile later, the host asked him if he ever sees the faces of the men he killed at night, and he said no, I only see the face of the guy I missed, and wonder how many more American soldiers he went on to kill. Just a different perspective of the guilt aspect. I’d never be able to forgive myself if I were unable to protect the ones I love. Might be guilt afterwards, but I accept that burden over the possibility of losing an innocent loved one.

 

[fatboyroy]

Glad it happened in NC, if its in some other state, the elderly couple just having relaxing time in their pontoon will end up in jail.

 

[zipper]

Never felt the need to carry on the boat in my area. Besides we visit NY waters frequently. We avoid ramps on busy weekends with our slip. The one incident two years ago at a ramp happened to my wife while I was getting the truck/trailer at haulout. Some Ahole wanted to dock his boat behind us, but there was not enough dock behind us as I had placed the boat where it needed to be after I backed the trailer in. He was aggressive towards her in my absence and she moved the boat forward. I could not back the trailer all the way in, so I got out and told him to back the F off while I put the boat back where I had it. He did so after a few words exchanged as he realized there were many witnesses and he was about to get thrown off the dock. Don't mess with a cattle farmer on his day off.

Edit: Anecdotally...he saw a woman tending a pretty nice orange Yamaha jetboat and he thinks "rich guy, push over", then he sees the guy backing the trailer like a pro in a rusty 3/4 ton duramax with a home made wooden bed, he did look confused or drunk.

 

[AmesJainchill]

74 year old vs a 29 year old? In a physical altercation, that 29 year old could've easily tossed the man and woman into the water and drove off in the pontoon, leaving them to drown. Short of undisclosed details about the situation, I can't feel any sympathy for the aggressor. He made his choice.

100%. As someone who carries anywhere I legally can and trains frequently, based on the "report" this appears to have been a clear Disparity of Force situation that would likely require the use of the great equalizer. I would say all the factors were there to justify defensive use of deadly force (Ability/Opportunity/Jeopardy). Glad the victims/defenders are ok. Of course they'll have to deal with the psychological/social aftermath as would anyone involved in a self defense scenario like this. But better to be alive. All that being said - awareness is the best defense, and if there's any way to avoid the situation, that's the preferred option...imho.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

I'm not going to judge the gentleman for shooting the other guy, especially since he did try and rescue him first.

I could understand why someone might have a gun aboard on a live-aboard boat, but personally, I couldn't ever foresee having a gun on a pontoon or jet boat.

Jim

 

[captras]

I'm torn slightly on this one. I find it hard to justify taking anyone's life out of fear alone. If there is no physical damage done, just a lot of yelling, killing someone over yelling or threatening is a step too far. I've read nothing about the guy striking anyone, or anything. Plus, if the GF is able to push the guy off the boat, how badass can he be? Resorting to deadly force seems insane in this situation - but again - there are few to no details about why they guy felt he had to kill this man, other than he feared for his life.

There are alot of details we dont know here that the sheriff may have had privy to that influenced his decision. Apparently the older man's intent was to help the guy, since he got him out of the water twice. So what caused the sudden escalation.....we dont know. We do know the dead guy was 29 and the shooter was 74! If, indeed, he was being assaulted by a guy a third of his age, I can understand being in fear for his life. We also dont know the physical condition of either man. I will say that in most states, all you have to do is convince authorities that you were in fear of your life, even if after the fact it is shown your fear was unfounded, deadly force is justified. In other words, if a man approaches you with his hand in his pocket, pointing at you and saying he will shoot you....you can honestly say you were in fear of your life. If you shot the guy and found out afterward that he was only pointing his finger at you from inside his pocket then your life was not in danger....but based on the circumstances at the time you were certainly justified to be in fear of your life. I was a cop for 10 years.....pulled my weapon more times than I can count....there were at least 6 times when I could have had no problem justifying fear for my life, or my partners. Fortunately, I never shot, and my gut feel was right, but it didnt change the facts that I would have been justified. Only I and the suspect were there, and only I know exactly what happened. It is a very tramatizing thing to take a life, and should never be taken lightly. I understand Julians comments, though I am more on the shoot the SOB side of the scale. But we werent there, and should be careful not to Monday morning quarterback. I will end this by simply saying, if I am trully in fear for my life, or the life of my family, I will shoot the SOB with no hesitation and no regrets. Always better to be tried by 12 than carried out by 6!

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

I think we are also discounting the fact that the girlfriend was a witness to this.... and they still did not press charges. It's not simply just the word of the old man and his wife.

 

[thefortunes]

Crazy story but not surprised in this day with how crazy and upside down the world is. For those having a hard time justifying shooting someone that is attacking you I suggest a YouTube channel that is a great learning tool. It’s called Active Self Protection on YouTube and they post some crazy videos that usually is of escalations that go bad but he details things to look for and indicators an attack is coming. Been watching his videos for many years and it’s definitely showed me #1 people are barbarians in nature and can do heinous crimes at unimaginable times and #2 to ALWAYS think about situational awareness especially in transitional places.

Good riddance to this thug who was living the criminal life.

Good riddance? Thug? Living criminal life?

Out of curiosity I looked up his "record."

OMG he deserved to be shot - he has a couple speeding tickets, driving without a seatbelt, etc...

I hope I never meet you (or various others posting on this thread). Ridiculous.

To be clear - I am not second guessing the the decision not to charge the 74yo man. The DA felt the shooting was justified.

But someone who feels they need to carry 'at all times" or would've pulled a gun on a boatload of "thugs" cuz they "stared him down" has serious problems and is EXACTLY the type of person who shouldn't have a gun in the first place.

 

[drewkaree]

I think we are also discounting the fact that the girlfriend was a witness to this.... and they still did not press charges. It's not simply just the word of the old man and his wife.

In all of the points put forth, this one seems to be one of the best, yet even I overlooked it until you brought it up!

But someone who feels they need to carry 'at all times" or would've pulled a gun on a boatload of "thugs" cuz they "stared him down" has serious problems and is EXACTLY the type of person who shouldn't have a gun in the first place.

Out of curiosity, who, in your opinion, are the type of people who should have a gun, or at least be allowed to have a gun?

 

[AmesJainchill]

?

 

[AZMark]

Out of curiosity, who, in your opinion, are the type of people who should have a gun, or at least be allowed to have a gun?

You took it to a whole other level with the word allowed there, but he was pretty clear about who shouldn’t have a gun - someone that thinks their gun is the only way out of a dirty look or a total non event with some scary looking people.

There are a few bizzare comments on this thread that I would hope don’t actually represent how these people view and plan to handle deadly force outside of an internet thread. Maybe different levels of thought going into this.

 

[sunbyrned]

I'm not going to judge the gentleman for shooting the other guy, especially since he did try and rescue him first.

I could understand why someone might have a gun aboard on a live-aboard boat, but personally, I couldn't ever foresee having a gun on a pontoon or jet boat.

Jim
[/QUOTE

You took it to a whole other level with the word allowed there, but he was pretty clear about who shouldn’t have a gun - someone that thinks their gun is the only way out of a dirty look or a total non event with some scary looking people.

There are a few bizzare comments on this thread that I would hope don’t actually represent how these people view and plan to handle deadly force outside of an internet thread. Maybe different levels of thought going into this.

I’m curious who said a gun was the only way out of a dirty look or scary event? I can’t find that in this thread anywhere. If you’re referring to the couple scenarios that I presented, I never said that the gun was the go to answer for those situations. In fact, in both of those scenarios I deescalated the situation, not escalate it like the clown that got shot. I did suggest though that I would like to have it on board in the event that things went another direction.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

You took it to a whole other level with the word allowed there, but he was pretty clear about who shouldn’t have a gun - someone that thinks their gun is the only way out of a dirty look or a total non event with some scary looking people.

There are a few bizzare comments on this thread that I would hope don’t actually represent how these people view and plan to handle deadly force outside of an internet thread. Maybe different levels of thought going into this.

I think when it comes down to it, most people are reasonable and do not pull the trigger unless absolutely necessary. Either that or I miss all the news articles about this happening lol. We do see some every few years when it was questionable and those make the headlines, but again they are far and few in between.

 

[dgfreeze]

Good riddance? Thug? Living criminal life?

Out of curiosity I looked up his "record."

OMG he deserved to be shot - he has a couple speeding tickets, driving without a seatbelt, etc...

I hope I never meet you (or various others posting on this thread). Ridiculous.

To be clear - I am not second guessing the the decision not to charge the 74yo man. The DA felt the shooting was justified.

But someone who feels they need to carry 'at all times" or would've pulled a gun on a boatload of "thugs" cuz they "stared him down" has serious problems and is EXACTLY the type of person who shouldn't have a gun in the first place.

Whether or not he "deserved" to be shot has nothing to do with his past record. It's irrelevant. I can understand taking issue with the "living a criminal life" statement, but his actions at the time of the event were clearly criminal, so I'd say there's an argument for both sides. I do also cringe somewhat at "good riddance", but if we are going to be in a functional society, we cannot turn a blind eye to criminal behavior. I see the outcome as sad, but also understand the sentiments of "good riddance". As for the other stuff, that was cleared up by the poster. He wasn't saying he would've drawn on them, but that it could've easily escalated to a situation where he might've wanted to use one. I can see how you took it that way, but I understood it as he meant it.

 

[AZMark]

I’m curious who said a gun was the only way out of a dirty look or scary event? I can’t find that in this thread anywhere. If you’re referring to the couple scenarios that I presented, I never said that the gun was the go to answer for those situations. In fact, in both of those scenarios I deescalated the situation, not escalate it like the clown that got shot. I did suggest though that I would like to have it on board in the event that things went another direction.

I totally agree that you handled them exactly as you should have, which was my thought when I read it.

You had said about those scenarios “Since then though, I’ve had two situations come up that I believe a using my gun could have been my only way out.” which is where I got very confused since you clearly found easy ways out of each situation that weren’t anywhere close to violence.

 

[sunbyrned]

I totally agree that you handled them exactly as you should have, which was my thought when I read it.

You had said about those scenarios “Since then though, I’ve had two situations come up that I believe a using my gun could have been my only way out.” which is where I got very confused since you clearly found easy ways out of each situation that weren’t anywhere close to violence.

I can see how you could interpret it that way. My bad. It’s all good. I had no idea the original post would have brought this much discussion. I just though it was an interesting situation. It’s been a healthy discussion though, which is always a good thing.

 

[RobbieO]

An intoxicated person can be very dangerous if they are agitated and violent

A tweaker who has been up for a few days is even more dangerous

 

[RobbieO]

Speaking of carrying a gun on a boat, does anyone here carry a weapon if they are camping in remote areas? I just bought a camper and plan on doing some camping in areas that don't always have other campers around. There are also bears to deal with. (the wife doesn't know this)