Another Example to Start Carrying a Gun On My Boat

[Inthrustwetrust]

Ya I’m sure there is more to it and I’m sure the guy was legitimately scared, but I’d bet a lot that the 74 year old wishes he had that one back, even if he escaped legal problems.
Unarmed/just almost drowned vs armed is tough.
Dont police have discretion to just dismiss things themselves when it’s a very clear cut self defense without going through the attorneys office?
Edit: I read elsewhere from the article posted that they had a conference with the local DA to determine if charges were warranted. To me that makes it seem like the sherrifs weren’t so sure, although I don’t know local laws there.

The DA is the person/office that handles any serious offense. Someone can point a gun to your head, you can defend yourself and kill the person, it can all be on camera and it can 100% be legal self defense. The investigators will still give the evidence to the DA for determination of if there is evidence for a charge/case, as they are the lawyers for the government. A conversation with the DA would most likely be standard procedure for any case where there might be a potential felony. It’s somewhat of a check and balance of power, police are the muscle and investors, DAs are the ones that bring a case to court.

It’s been a long time since I got my CJ degree, and I’ve never used it, but that’s the basics of how that works.

 

[Seno]

It’s a crazy story for sure and a double edged sword. You wanna help someone in trouble but you don’t want to become a victim. We have stopped and helped 4 different people who had issues and all have been “sane, normal and grateful”. We have been lucky but you just never know what your dealing with and when your going to be the winner of the unlucky lottery. Do I need a gun to defend myself? You never know, I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

 

[drewkaree]

I'm torn on this one. I find it hard to justify taking anyone's life out of fear alone. If there is no physical damage done, just a lot of yelling, killing someone over yelling or threatening is a step too far. I've read nothing about the guy striking anyone, or anything. Plus, if the GF is able to push the guy off the boat, how badass can he be? Resorting to deadly force seems insane in this situation - but again - there are few to no details about why they guy felt he had to kill this man, other than he feared for his life.

I have no idea what went on here, but when I read this part - "The couple on the boat told authorities Morgan became agitated once he got on board and started assaulting them" - I read that as the guy wasn't just saying mean things to them, yelling at them, or threatening them, there were blows. The story is poorly written, which seems to be the norm nowadays, so at best it's murky, and at worst, the writing is contributing to a perspective that may or may not be true, either in part, or at all.

I don't understand why the captain of the boat helped/allowed the guy back on his boat, but I have no way of knowing much of anything, thanks to the poor writing, to have enough details to determine what I might have done in that situation. Clearly, there is far more to this story, and at best, we're all guilty of conjecture about what we'd have done, since nobody can make an accurate assessment of the situation, given the lack of info by the writer.

It's a shame someone died, and it's a shame someone felt the only recourse of this situation was to kill another person. I can't seem to put myself in either person's shoes, because there's a whole lot of nothing to go on - it IS possible that BOTH parties were a-holes, after all, but I can't wrap my mind around stopping to save someone, only to kill them for no good reason. One thing doesn't jive with the other, and we're left to hope for more to the story, or for it to be written by another reporter with more talent.

 

[Bluewater272]

According to the actual police report, the 74 year old man was being physically assaulted after this 29 year old intoxicated and aggressive dipshit got on the boat a second time.




Deadly force absolutely warranted in my opinion.

 

[2kwik4u]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not saying he wasn't legally within his rights.....just not the culture I was raised in.

I 100% agree that the shooter was within his rights, as we've defined them in this society, to do what he did. I hold no grudge against the guy with the gun here. Honestly, not even a little bit.

However, I'm in the same frame of mind as you are Julian. It's why I don't own a gun, and probably never will. I don't hunt, and I'm not willing to put myself in a position to take another humans life. Perhaps I'm privileged, or naive, or whatever, but I just can't see being in a situation that requires responding with deadly force. IMO, there is almost always a non-deadly resolution to be found.

In this particular case, if the wife could knock him off the boat I have to think I could as well. Once he's in the water, toss him a vest and motor away. Even the slowest pontoons are faster than a swimming human.......As I sit here and think about it......I suppose this could be argued as using deadly force as well. Under the premise that not rendering aid is negligent, and the jetski guy could drown without our help......I think that's a stretch myself, and would still take that option over shooting the guy.

 

[obrien19]

Could debate this topic for years, and never come away with the "correct answer". Everyone says how they would react to a certain situation, but truthfully, we don't know until we are put in that situation. We all like to believe we would make the smart/safe decision 100% of the time every time. None of us were there, none of us were that 74 year old man so we can't really make an informed decision on what could of been done differently.

I am a gun owner, and hope to never have to use it to defend my self. Just like my truck and trailer have a spare tire, hope to never use it. But sometimes life has other plans. Obviously, comparing self defense to having a spare tire is a big stretch, but i'd rather be safe than sorry.

 

[Coult45]

According to the actual police report, the 74 year old man was being physically assaulted after this 29 year old intoxicated and aggressive dipshit got on the boat a second time.

View attachment 173872


Deadly force absolutely warranted in my opinion.

Wait a minute...brass knuckle ab tattoos and a roman cross on his chest...I think he might be one of the Knights Templar...Was Indiana Jones driving the boat?

 

[tabbibus]

Wait a minute...brass knuckle ab tattoos and a roman cross on his chest...I think he might be one of the Knights Templar...Was Indiana Jones driving the boat?

Templar? Maybe the 79yo was a member of the order of Assassins?

Nothing is true, everything is permitted.

 

[Coult45]

correction...part of the Brotherhood of the Cruciform Sword...

 

[kgower]

Almost 100% of the time I leave the house I'm carrying. I have installed a console safe in my truck on those rare occasions I have to enter a government building or other restricted area. I have yet to bring my gun on the boat (locking it in the truck), but it is something I debated this last season. this season will probably be different.

 

[Crob83]

I caught a crackhead in my house back in like 2004...LOL. I Knew someone was in the house because the front door was kicked in. I was on my lunch break from work, I got my gun from my truck entered the house and said police come out with your hands up. I waited for him to appear, of course from a good/safe vantage point since I knew the house layout obviously. He did, I made him get on the ground and empty his pockets. Waited for the cops and they arrested him, I could have blew his brains out. But I didn't, and I'm glad I don't have that on my conscience. Plus I got my weed and money back out of his pockets????. Only reason I went home was because myex girlfriend told me she was 7 months pregnant and I was kind of in shock.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I caught a crackhead in my house back in like 2004...LOL. I Knew someone was in the house because the front door was kicked in. I was on my lunch break from work, I got my gun from my truck entered the house and said police come out with your hands up. I waited for him to appear, of course from a good/safe vantage point since I knew the house layout obviously. He did, I made him get on the ground and empty his pockets. Waited for the cops and they arrested him, I could have blew his brains out. But I didn't, and I'm glad I don't have that on my conscience. Plus I got my weed and money back out of his pockets????. Only reason I went home was because myex girlfriend told me she was 7 months pregnant and I was kind of in shock.

Sounds like a bad day at slippery rock! LOL!

But you were prepared to shoot or you wouldn’t have had the gun in your hand, so thankfully he was not in some sort of psychosis for being up for 7 or 8 days and could think clearly enough to be able to see the wisdom of capitulating and living another day.

So I gotta ask, is the ex GF now your wife or just your baby momma?

 

[Crob83]

Sounds like a bad day at slippery rock! LOL!

But you were prepared to shoot or you wouldn’t have had the gun in your hand, so thankfully he was not in some sort of psychosis for being up for 7 or 8 days and could think clearly enough to be able to see the wisdom of capitulating and living another day.

So I gotta ask, is the ex GF now your wife or just your baby momma?

Neither, it wasn't mine???. She belongs to the streets!!!

 

[dgfreeze]

74 year old vs a 29 year old? In a physical altercation, that 29 year old could've easily tossed the man and woman into the water and drove off in the pontoon, leaving them to drown. Short of undisclosed details about the situation, I can't feel any sympathy for the aggressor. He made his choice. I'm sure in hindsight, the 74 yr old is likely wishing he'd have tossed the guy a life jacket after he was pushed back in, and driven the girlfriend back to the dock, but our minds operate completely different in the middle of high stress situations. We can sit calmly behind our computer, read the article, and come up with a perfect way to escape the situation with our keyboards, but the fact of the matter is, we weren't subjected to the actual situation. Maybe there was no time to toss him a life jacket before he was back on board. Maybe the only reason the elderly couple is still alive is because they shot him. Maybe he was beating up the girlfriend after she pushed him in. Maybe maybe maybe.... All I can say, is if a 29 year old guy started physically assaulting my parents after they rescued him and his girlfriend from potential death, I'd pray to God that someone shoots him.

Another thing, just because someone uses a gun, doesn't mean it's an automatic death dealer. Obviously drastic differences in survival rates between calibers and other variables, but seems that at least half of gunshot victims survive. If someone were beating your wife, would you grab a hammer or baseball bat and swing with all your might? Pretty sure we all would. He could die from that also. Less chance of killing him, but also less chance you're successful at stopping him. Especially if you're 74. Anyway, sad ending, but could've been a lot sadder.

 

[bubbasuwannee]

Sad situation. I understand the reasoning either way of a person's decision to carry deadly force or not. If you do decide to carry, a situation such as this must be ready to be dealt with. As others have mentioned, probably more to the story that's being left out. It's a crazy world out there. Lots of good hearted people, some with evil in their hearts and many with bad judgement. I carry anytime I'm up and awake, but sure hope to never need to resort to it. Not a bad idea to also carry something non lethal as an alternate response like some pepper spray.

 

[AZMark]

Agree this is a good reminder to keep some less lethal form of protection on your boat in place of or in addition to a gun. I never bring any guns out for normal family days on the water, there just really isn’t a good enough reason for me.

This was a one in a million event and you’re all right that all we can do is guess about what happened on that boat. It does represent the general kind of trouble you’re likely to run into on the water though…drunk & unruly, not hardened criminals (or pirates?) out looking to take you and your family down.

I shouldn’t have judged this old guy without all the facts but I do know a lot of gun owners from various walks of life and there is certainly a subset of people that are way too scared and way too ready to pull that thing out and put their “training” (target practice) to use with a bullet in the middle of someone’s chest over any threat. This is very much an inverse relationship to military or law enforcement experience among the people I know. Two of the veterans I know (Army & Marines) don’t own any guns at all.

I know a gentleman that many years before I met him came home to two guys burglarizing his house like @Crob83 and he actually fired on them as they ran out. He missed and it was the luckiest shot of his life as the police told him. They still arrested him and debated charging him for a very long time before ultimately not. In his mind in that moment he was justified and maybe he would have gotten off if he killed someone but it still would have done significant damage to his life and ultimately for nothing.

 

[Crob83]

Agree this is a good reminder to keep some less lethal form of protection on your boat in place of or in addition to a gun. I never bring any guns out for normal family days on the water, there just really isn’t a good enough reason for me.

This was a one in a million event and you’re all right that all we can do is guess about what happened on that boat. It does represent the general kind of trouble you’re likely to run into on the water though…drunk & unruly, not hardened criminals (or pirates?) out looking to take you and your family down.

I shouldn’t have judged this old guy without all the facts but I do know a lot of gun owners from various walks of life and there is certainly a subset of people that are way too scared and way too ready to pull that thing out and put their “training” (target practice) to use with a bullet in the middle of someone’s chest over any threat. This is very much an inverse relationship to military or law enforcement experience among the people I know. Two of the veterans I know (Army & Marines) don’t own any guns at all.

I know a gentleman that many years before I met him came home to two guys burglarizing his house like @Crob83 and he actually fired on them as they ran out. He missed and it was the luckiest shot of his life as the police told him. They still arrested him and debated charging him for a very long time before ultimately not. In his mind in that moment he was justified and maybe he would have gotten off if he killed someone but it still would have done significant damage to his life and ultimately for nothing.

The funny thing about it was IPD (Indianapolis police) told me I should've just killed him to save everybody time and laughed

 

[Seno]

I have no idea what went on here, but when I read this part - "The couple on the boat told authorities Morgan became agitated once he got on board and started assaulting them" - I read that as the guy wasn't just saying mean things to them, yelling at them, or threatening them, there were blows. The story is poorly written, which seems to be the norm nowadays, so at best it's murky, and at worst, the writing is contributing to a perspective that may or may not be true, either in part, or at all.

I don't understand why the captain of the boat helped/allowed the guy back on his boat, but I have no way of knowing much of anything, thanks to the poor writing, to have enough details to determine what I might have done in that situation. Clearly, there is far more to this story, and at best, we're all guilty of conjecture about what we'd have done, since nobody can make an accurate assessment of the situation, given the lack of info by the writer.

It's a shame someone died, and it's a shame someone felt the only recourse of this situation was to kill another person. I can't seem to put myself in either person's shoes, because there's a whole lot of nothing to go on - it IS possible that BOTH parties were a-holes, after all, but I can't wrap my mind around stopping to save someone, only to kill them for no good reason. One thing doesn't jive with the other, and we're left to hope for more to the story, or for it to be written by another reporter with more talent.

The story was written horribly. It's a shame in todays society if he did not render aid that he could be sued

Almost 100% of the time I leave the house I'm carrying. I have installed a console safe in my truck on those rare occasions I have to enter a government building or other restricted area. I have yet to bring my gun on the boat (locking it in the truck), but it is something I debated this last season. this season will probably be different.

100% here also.... For almost 30 years

 

[sunbyrned]

I mentioned earlier that I didn’t think boats and guns were a good mix and got into a debate with someone on this forum about this very subject years ago. (Bullet holes in the hull, gas tank, unstable conditions) I carry, and at the time, I decided not to carry on the boat. Since then though, I’ve had two situations come up that I believe a using my gun could have been my only way out. Luckily both resolved themselves without needing it. One was exactly like what happened in this article. I helped two stranded female swimmers. They said they had been floating for over an hour after the driver of their boat left them stranded. I went and found that boat and it was full of thugs who didn’t say a word of thanks or anything. All they did was stare me down with go to hell looks. They obviously did not like the fact that the ladies were in my boat. Luckily that’s where it ended. The second situation was at night while I was cleaning my boat after taking it out of the water. A motorcycle gang appeared out of the blue and started circling me in a threatening manner. Although I felt uncomfortable, the way I defused it was by just embracing the situation and inviting them on board to check it out. They all got on and loved the boat and I, in return, complimented their bikes. They all expressed their appreciation for the hospitality. Something they didn’t expect. I breathed a huge sigh of relief when they left. So, for me, I can relate to the guy in the article. Luckily my situations resolved themselves but for the guy in the article, it apparently escalated. Anyway, like I said, for me it’s another example why I’m going to start carrying on the boat as well.

 

[AZMark]

I mentioned earlier that I didn’t think boats and guns were a good mix and got into a debate with someone on this forum about this very subject years ago. (Bullet holes in the hull, gas tank, unstable conditions) I carry, and at the time, I decided not to carry on the boat. Since then though, I’ve had two situations come up that I believe a using my gun could have been my only way out. Luckily both resolved themselves without needing it. One was exactly like what happened in this article. I helped two stranded female swimmers. They said they had been floating for over an hour after the driver of their boat left them stranded. I went and found that boat and it was full of thugs who didn’t say a word of thanks or anything. All they did was stare me down with go to hell looks. They obviously did not like the fact that the ladies were in my boat. Luckily that’s where it ended. The second situation was at night while I was cleaning my boat after taking it out of the water. A motorcycle gang appeared out of the blue and started circling me in a threatening manner. Although I felt uncomfortable, the way I defused it was by just embracing the situation and inviting them on board to check it out. They all got on and loved the boat and I, in return, complimented their bikes. They all expressed their appreciation for the hospitality. Something they didn’t expect. I breathed a huge sigh of relief when they left. So, for me, I can relate to the guy in the article. Luckily my situations resolved themselves but for the guy in the article, it apparently escalated. Anyway, like I said, for me it’s another example why I’m going to start carrying on the boat as well.

It seems like those two situations would be the perfect examples of expecting something terrible and someone overly paranoid potentially reaching for a gun in a completely unnecessary situation. I’m honestly not sure how that reinforced your desire to be armed.