Cavitation/Slipping Feeling and Taking on Water

[sienaaof]

Hi guys, first post on the board, long time lurker. Normally have been able to figure things out by searching but not this time. Having some issues with my 07 Yamaha AR230 HO

When I bought the boat last fall it had what felt like a bad cavitation issue, felt like a slipping clutch and could barely get on plane, I had swollen wear rings, missing sealant, and needed some impeller work and figured I'd replace the pump bearings while I was in there. So this past winter I got all of that taken care of.

I had my boat out for the first time yesterday and she did great, at first.....then right back to the old problem.

I did the normal prep for the season, changed oil, changed plugs, greased the intermediate bearing (cleared out old bad almost solid grease and replaced with fresh grease) pumping only 2 pumps into the hose. I took her out yesterday and it took off running perfect for the first two times starting from a dead stop to full acceleration, was very happy. I then proceeded to be stopped/ slow in a no wake zone for about 10 mins and decided to head back, also at this point I hit the bilge pump and a lot of water came out, ran for about 5 mins or more straight. I then tried to accelerate and it was doing the same thing as last year, felt like a slipping clutch and couldn't get onto plane, had to limp it home.

My thoughts are that it is the intermediate bearing housing/seal is shot and allowing water past at no/slow speed and also creating cavitation under power. I need to get the boat out again and watch everything to see if/where water is coming in from. What does this sound like to you?

Also how hard is it to "move" the engine(s) forward to get access to the housings? I see in some posts you it can be moved forward and not removed, do I just need to remove the motor mount bolts/exhaust and scoot it forward a bit?

I'm also having a problem on my starboard engine running rough at idle and it can't keep the "no wake" setting. Could be the bearing? Injector?

I'm bummed that after all my work this winter I haven't solved the problem and I'm looking for any help I can get! Thanks guys.

 

[mark_m]

I think I know the “experience” yu are describing. When I first splashed my boat after bringing it from Maryland, I think I had experience similar to what you describe. In my case I had a slow cleanout plug blowout. I’d check your cleanout plugs on your next outing. I betcha the Boat is fine. Good luck.

 

[Scottintexas]

glad to have you join us,

I would first advise you to turn you bilge pump on as soon as the boat hits the water and leave it on until you pull it out, we've heard many a story of people's who have compounded their problem just because they didn't have the bilge on automatic,

These boats have a history of leaking from the rear cleats, rub rail, cleanout tray hatch, scabbard drain plug and most importantly the scupper, you could also have a cooling hose come loose or as stated above a cleanout plug or tube misaligned (causing water to be pumped into the bilge),

I would remove the cleanout tray hatch and drop it on the water to try to better monitor where and how much water is coming in and if it's happening while moored or if you get more with the engine running (cooling hose problem).

If you bilge ran for 5 minutes that was a lot of water. Did you check your engine compartment to look at water level while it was happening? Could all the water/weight have been the reason the boat wasn't responding as normal??

I would look at the leak and then missing sealant in the intake first everybody wants to go the intermediate bearing but we've seen very few of those actually failed

You should get a YDS to get a better idea what's going on with your engine, you can adjust the no wake settings or a low battery voltage can cause a finicky no wake,

 

[Beachbummer]

One of the better mods I made on the boat was adding a float with alarm and extra bilge pumps. That way you know water is entering before there's too much of it.

I agree finding the source of water is important. If your intermediate seal diagnosis is correct, you will confirm by seeing the water enter. I rarely say this: I hope you are wrong. If it's the plugs coming loose, or sealant came loose again, it may explain all symptoms and be much cheaper to fix.

Do you have ez locks? Make sure the plugs are fully seated and that your rear cover is secure and not allowing water in.

Best of luck! I suggest find the water source before spending any money. Seeing is believing.

 

[Julian]

Agree with @Scottintexas and @mark_m

• You need to solve the water problem (which could be a leak at the clean out hose connection point at the bottom). That much water weighs a ton and will cause poor performance
• Your cavitation issue could well be a bad seal at the clean out plug.....how easily do they go in and out?
• My last boat I installed a bilge alarm....I still have that on my list to do in my new boat!

 

[sienaaof]

Thanks for the responses so far guys, I definitely hope I am wrong as well! Need to just get it back out and open things up and look around.

I do have EZ locks. Actually when I got the boat, the plugs were almost stuck in place and seemed like they might have been sealed in place but I was able to break them free and clean them up, maybe the previous ower was remedying the issue by sealing the plugs instead of fixing them. There was water on top of the clean out plugs when I checked them shortly after having the problem, not sure if this means anything.

 

[Julian]

Thanks for the responses so far guys, I definitely hope I am wrong as well! Need to just get it back out and open things up and look around.

I do have EZ locks. Actually when I got the boat, the plugs were almost stuck in place and seemed like they might have been sealed in place but I was able to break them free and clean them up, maybe the previous ower was remedying the issue by sealing the plugs instead of fixing them. There was water on top of the clean out plugs when I checked them shortly after having the problem, not sure if this means anything.

Plugs will almost always have water on top of them. If they don't go in an out easily, I'd rebuild them - it isn't expensive.

 

[swatski]

Thanks for the responses so far guys, I definitely hope I am wrong as well! Need to just get it back out and open things up and look around.

I do have EZ locks. Actually when I got the boat, the plugs were almost stuck in place and seemed like they might have been sealed in place but I was able to break them free and clean them up, maybe the previous ower was remedying the issue by sealing the plugs instead of fixing them. There was water on top of the clean out plugs when I checked them shortly after having the problem, not sure if this means anything.

I would second the cleanout plug hypothesis here, if the seals don't hold you can blow a lot of water through and get it in the bilge - through the top of the "pipes" and the cracks in clean out tray which is never completely sealed.

I know @Cobra Jet Steering LLC has dealt with a broken intermediate bearing - not sure if that's a thread in FAQs, but if he can chime in that would be best.

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[Ronnie]

Since the cavitation was gone and came back I have a feeling that your sealent fix may have failed and fallen out or is hanging loose where it is still installed. I would just take a look and make sure it is all still there and secure in place. When I say loose I mean those parts that are attached front and back but the middle is loose and it may not be apparent until water is being pushed by or through it. Also make sure there is nothing wrapped around the shaft or the impeller.

 

[swatski]

Since the cavitation was gone and came back I have a feeling that your sealent fix may have failed and fallen out or is hanging loose where it is still installed.

Good point, however it does not explain water ingress.

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[sienaaof]

Good point, however it does not explain water ingress.

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Yea I plan on going under and checking my sealant job tonight when I get home. Maybe I will just rebuild the plugs as a cheaper/easier first step, hopefully it fixes it, if not at least I've crossed it off the list of possible issues.

I might have have several issues going on, one creating the water and another with the cavitation.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I already had an e mail from him and I made some suggestions, see below





First you need to put the boat in the water and let it sit on the trailer just floating so you can see if a intermediate bearing is leaking you can view this also you may need to do some hose clamp or hose replacements if this is where your water is leaking in, especially the back hoses under the hatch, also check the big hoses at the center of your engines.. as for cavitation you probably sucked up trash in the pumps especially if you use reverse in shallow water as it kicks up the bottom and puts it in the pump.

Learn my reverse move when you feel cavitation from weeds etc. Get the boat going backward, KILL THE ENGINES then quickly put the controls in forward to allow water to go in the pump backward to wash out the weeds from the pump . Turning off the engines stops the suction and opening the reverse bucket allows water to flow backward in the pump sit for 30 seconds and see if you m notice weeds or trash floating out from under the boat, Also use the clean out ports to inspect the pumps for plastic bags sticks etc, If the boat operated ok and then suddenly ran bad it is not usually a mechanical issue but weeds or trash in the pumps.

 

[sienaaof]

So I just poked around the impellers and found some wood jammed up in there. One piece was a good size and some smaller twigs, pictures below. Hopefully that was it.
The sealant job looks like it held up fine, I used 4200.
Still want to get it out on the water and see if that was the problem and also look for leaks. Fingers crossed

 

[mark_m]

So I just poked around the impellers and found some wood jammed up in there. One piece was a good size and some smaller twigs, pictures below. Hopefully that was it.
The sealant job looks like it held up fine, I used 4200.
Still want to get it out on the water and see if that was the problem and also look for leaks. Fingers crossed

I have had debris cause a similar feeling with the boat feeling like clutch is slipping in a car and definitely you won’t have full thrust. Keep us posted.

 

[itsdgm]

Welcome aboard. Looks like you’ve more than likely found the source of your cavitation already. As far as the engine running rough, change the spark plugs. #1 cause of engine related issues on our vintage boats is spark plugs. As far as water, hard to say right off the bat. Anything, including the drain plug can cause that one. Follow the other posts above on how to diagnose. Remember, cold water is usually a fitting or hole in the boat, warm water is exhaust or cooling water after it flows through the engine. These boats are also known for broken/rusted clamps. Check then all.

 

[sienaaof]

Update
Took the boat out with my brother to have another set of eyes to check for leaks and other issues.

Found the leak right away. The previous owner cut off the hose connections and put on normal garden hose connections at the ends with on/off switches. I must have left the port side slightly open and it was pouring into the side and eventually the engine compartment. Whoops, lesson learned and I’ll probably just get some hose caps to ensure this can’t happen again.
Also the cavitation issue is gone so it must have been the sticks and debris. Glad to have that figured out as well!

Still have a rough idle and inability to maintain no wake mod on starboard engine also feels like a lack of power on starboard side. I just got the YDS and will investigate when I have a chance. Feels like a misfire due to an injector or spark.

Also noted the farthest back pee hole, what I believe to be the port engine indicator is not spitting water at all. Need to trace this back, not getting an overheat and I’m assuming it’s just the indicator line thats plugged up.

Overall I’m relieved it’s not anything more serious. Just a few more things to figure out.

Thanks for all the suggestions! Love having a place like this to turn to.

 

[Beachbummer]

On the water indicator, try unblocking from outside while running with a long zip tie or some weedwacker trim line. May just be some mud borrowing insect plugging the exit.

Best of luck

 

[mark_m]

Make sure the coils are all plugged in. I changed plugs at beginning of season and noticed one engine wasn’t spinning all the way up and sounded funny. I didn’t fully click in the coil last season. Corrected it on the water and we were good to go.

Love these boats and this forum.

 

[buckbuck]

You are correct. The furthest back pee hole is the port engine.

 

[sienaaof]

On the water indicator, try unblocking from outside while running with a long zip tie or some weedwacker trim line. May just be some mud borrowing insect plugging the exit.

Best of luck

Tried the trimmer line and could feel the blockage, it wouldn’t break it up though. I had to disconnect the hose from inside and work it out. Found a large wad of weeds in there that was blocking it up. It’s clear now and should be flowing free but haven’t tested it yet.