Cobra vs Vector 2021 Edition

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Thank you all for the feedback.

Jeff - Any deals on the horizon for the newbies or to convince those on the fence?

here is some info and a little history on aftermarket jet boat steering.
I provide the most features and benefits available without the drawbacks of excess resistance or huge oversized fins, bigger is definitely not better , because too much is just no good or people would be nailing 4 by 8 sheets of plywood to their nozzles.

I design my systems with several things in mind, and most of my parts have several functions.
I believe one size does not fit all nor does one feature satisfy everyone's needs.
I also know that having a steering system that is predictable at all speeds in all conditions is the most practical way to go and if you can get this at a discounted price all year that is even better .
I offer a buy direct discount price to everyone all year long and free domestic priority mail as well.
I also have a special extra discount for first responders and military personnel.
I have been doing this since 2001 when I designed a steering system for my own jet boat and went from hating it to loving how it handled. It was a new boat!
Remember what determines how things are made and what features are offered usually gets determined by what patents exist and who owns them.
I built steering for Yamaha jet boats because I was constantly asked to do so by Yamaha jet boat owners years ago on the old Yamaha jet boaters site.

Today Yamaha has models from 19 foot single engine boats to 27 foot twin engine boats and I have steering systems for all of those that offer a variety of features and benefits. I even have special viper systems for the 19 foot boats as well as the super magnum versions and the super ultimate versions and upgrades like super fangs or AK fangs for all Yamaha jet boat models. I suggest visiting the vendor section https://jetboaters.net/threads/basi...us-options-from-cobra-jet-steering-llc.16857/ read about the various systems .
And remember this is my baby and I take it seriously so if someone is trying to talk you into buying some other system and they tell you my steering will void your warranty please let me know who is saying it and exactly what they said so I can provide that information to the proper people.
And remember adding an aftermarket steering system to your boat will not void your warranty!
I never hire marketing people or allow associates to post in my behalf or try to start a conversation on facebook about a particular product to increase sales.
I do nearly everything myself and I stay very busy all year long. I can offer the best most versatile steering systems at buy direct discount prices because I keep my overhead low and I stay focused on my steering systems.
So let the buyer beware do your research and buy your last steering system first. Thank you all and happy new year and remember you can call the inventor , the patent holder and the owner of Cobra Jet Steering The innovator of aftermarket steering for jet boats and P W C's directly for a one on one conversation I take calls on holidays as well.

 

[tdonoughue]

Throwing in my 2 cents, very well aware that this is a hotly debated topic here on the board. A simple search should give you lots of perspectives... I will repeat that you should try your boat without a steering mod for a season or so. It can really help you learn your craft and will make you a much better pilot. But to your questions:

1. Plastic/Polymer vs Metal - Longevity
2. Depth in Water - Scraping the driveway
3. Low Speed vs Higher/Operating Speed Use
4. Cost
5. Support
6. Ease of Installation

1. I frankly don't think there is much of a difference. I have had my TV's for going on 10 years now. They look new (disclaimer: I have only had them in fresh water). I have never seen any Cobras fail on this front either.
2. Here again I don't think there is much difference. Cobras are fixed; TV's spring loaded. There was some to-do a while back that if the Cobras got hit at speed, given that they were fixed down, it could cause damage to the boat. Never seen any instances of it, and it does not hang below the boat appreciably (like, an inch? and as someone noted, above the keel). TV's are on springs so if they hit something they pop up (and are up at speed anyway). I would be careful about driveways with either of them--if you are that close to damaging a steering system, you are that close to damaging your pump...
3. At low speed, absent the Cobra fangs, probably about the same. I think the originally the TV's were a little bigger surface area, so in theory may provide a bit more steerage, but I think you would need scientific tools to measure it. At speed, Cobras are locked down, so continue to provide tracking help, but also may limit turns a little (not very much, I am convinced). At speed, TV's are up, so the boat handles exactly like it did without them (so no tracking benefit, but you can still cut tight corners at speed). In my mind, this one is a tie.
4. Cost is what it is...
5. Support from both these providers is simply outstanding. Both are running a business, and there are certain realities in doing so. Both shops are very responsive. Both provide great support to this board and the community (via videos, responses to posts, etc.).
6. No problems with the TV installs for me. Clear, professional instructions. No personal experience with the Cobra installs, but I believe them to be comparable judging from posts here.

Look at it this way: if one of these were clearly the superior product, no one would fight over which one to use. Yet this continues to be a point of contention. This alone tells me how close these two products are. Take some comfort in that: you really can't go wrong whichever one you select.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Well if it were only that simple, cobra systems are both fixed and spring loaded ,cobra systems have several adjustments on both fixed or spring loaded, cobra will make the boat turn quicker at speed with less bleed off and steer without any thrust, plus cobra has the deluxe systems with the plaining surfaces for better hole shot, smoother ride and cleaner wake. And the second tie rod for balance and redundancy in the steering system. So as I have said in the past it's like a flip phone or a smart phone it all comes down to features and benefits And the so called fixed systems were designed to protect the original parts by having sacrificial parts built in to take the hit and save the other parts. This is accomplished by using softer less tempered parts where this is needed. And great care is taken to make the fins provide the steering with very little resistance or drag in the steering even at high speed.

 

[LASwxman]

I just ordered my Cobra Super Ultimate AK-19 Deluxe this morning.

Quite frankly, the deciding factor for me was Jeff's excellent engagement, explanations and tutorial on this site and his own. A secondary factor was the fact that I have a 190 and could use the assist to get on plan faster when rev'ing up. Which it seems like Cobras will give me.

Just FYI - I am going into my second season with the boat. Did one year without steering mods to get the hang of jetboats. This is a fair recommendation that is common in the group, especially if you are new to jet boats. As frustrating as it was to learn this year without steering assist, it will make this year that much sweeter.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Hello all - Please hold the eyerolls...We just purchased a 2021 AR190 and are looking for recommendations on a Cobra Jet vs a Thrust Vector.

Much has changed in 2021 - The 19 foot boats have an articulating keel and Jet Boat Pilot and Cobra seem to have come out with a brand new iteration of their Thrust Vectors and Super Ultimate Deluxe Fang Viper Things...The pricing seems to have gotten a lot closer as well.

I realize feedback is subjective based on what you have but some specific topics to guide that I have picked up on the other versus threads -

1. Plastic/Polymer vs Metal - Longevity
2. Depth in Water - Scraping the driveway
3. Low Speed vs Higher/Operating Speed Use
4. Cost
5. Support
6. Ease of Installation

Please guide us oh learned ones...Jet Boat Pilot and Cobra Jet (Jeff) - Guidance on the right product (and cost) for a 2021 AR190 would be appreciated as well!

Please note that we are upgrading from a 16' Seadoo Sportster Jetboat that does not have any keels or thrusters and are doing ok with docking/trailering - even a "you don't really need it" is a reasonable guidance...

Thanks in advance!

Try your boat without any steering enhancement Devices and use that money to buy fuel and for days on the water.

Ive put a lot of hours on my boat slow trolling and slow cruising and have no complaints about the handling. The first detent on your throttles are what Yamaha calls TDE or thrust directional enhancement position. Try using this TDE position with your no wake mode and I think you will find that your boat handles well.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Try your boat without any steering enhancement Devices and use that money to buy fuel and for days on the water.

I've put a lot of hours on my boat slow trolling and slow cruising and have no complaints about the handling. The first detent on your throttles are what Yamaha calls TDE or thrust directional enhancement position. Try using this TDE position with your no wake mode and I think you will find that your boat handles well.

I have come to realize that this is a very predictable post coming from you, I must say I laugh every time someone says something so absurd as just learn to drive it the way it came. I learned to drive a car in a 1959 Rambler 4 door with a straight 6 cylinder a stick shift on the column, no power brakes or power steering, no air conditioning not even a synchromesh first gear.
It did have an AM radio and lap belts in the front seats.
Passed my drivers license test in that car, it got me where I needed to go and back even pulled my M F G 14 foot boat with a 40 HP Evinrude on occasion .
So why on earth did the car manufacturers mess up such a good thing practically nothing to break or maintain except some manual brakes and change the oil occasionally.
If You went to a car lot and told strangers to get away from the cars with all the options like power steering or power brakes windows locks sound systems air conditioning and all the other upgrades that they could save the money and use it to buy gas rather than enjoy the car more , someone would probably tell you to shut up and get out of the car lot before they call the insane asylum to come get you.
My advice is always try the boat first if you get the smile on your face and the good feeling in your chest when you drive it leave it alone, but if you say oh my god this is making me nervous and you get a bad feeling in the pit of your stomach and you start to wonder if you made a huge mistake buying the boat then add steering that will fix the constant left right left corrections and the speed bleed off in turns and also lock down the boat in turns and when towing tubes steering that makes the boat predictable and manageable in wind waves and currents, steering that allows others to also operate the boat in comfort so you all can get more out of your time on the water, Then why would any sane person try to interfere with that process? Just be glad I felt that way 20 years ago when I first drove my jet boat and decided that it had to be rectified it was not acceptable and I fixed it. Making it a joy to use thus convincing me to follow the path I chose and others have tried to follow. Maybe you should try giving advice about fishing did you know that a fish has an old factory system that can detect 1 part per 10 to the 15th power and this is approximately 1million times better than our old factory system and they hate the smell of amino acids , something that is on human skin , so when you touch a lure you are greatly reducing the probability of catching a fish and if you rub fish chum on your hands your odds go way up to catch a fish. And you can sell those fish and use the money to buy gas for the boat.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I have come to realize that this is a very predictable post coming from you, I must say I laugh every time someone says something so absurd as just learn to drive it the way it came. I learned to drive a car in a 1959 Rambler 4 door with a straight 6 cylinder a stick shift on the column, no power brakes or power steering, no air conditioning not even a synchromesh first gear.
It did have an AM radio and lap belts in the front seats.
Passed my drivers license test in that car, it got me where I needed to go and back even pulled my M F G 14 foot boat with a 40 HP Evinrude on occasion .
So why on earth did the car manufacturers mess up such a good thing practically nothing to break or maintain except some manual brakes and change the oil occasionally.
If You went to a car lot and told strangers to get away from the cars with all the options like power steering or power brakes windows locks sound systems air conditioning and all the other upgrades that they could save the money and use it to buy gas rather than enjoy the car more , someone would probably tell you to shut up and get out of the car lot before they call the insane asylum to come get you.
My advice is always try the boat first if you get the smile on your face and the good feeling in your chest when you drive it leave it alone, but if you say oh my god this is making me nervous and you get a bad feeling in the pit of your stomach and you start to wonder if you made a huge mistake buying the boat then add steering that will fix the constant left right left corrections and the speed bleed off in turns and also lock down the boat in turns and when towing tubes steering that makes the boat predictable and manageable in wind waves and currents, steering that allows others to also operate the boat in comfort so you all can get more out of your time on the water, Then why would any sane person try to interfere with that process? Just be glad I felt that way 20 years ago when I first drove my jet boat and decided that it had to be rectified it was not acceptable and I fixed it. Making it a joy to use thus convincing me to follow the path I chose and others have tried to follow. Maybe you should try giving advice about fishing did you know that a fish has an old factory system that can detect 1 part per 10 to the 15th power and this is approximately 1million times better than our old factory system and they hate the smell of amino acids , something that is on human skin , so when you touch a lure you are greatly reducing the probability of catching a fish and if you rub fish chum on your hands your odds go way up to catch a fish. And you can sell those fish and use the money to buy gas for the boat.

Why the ad hominem attack Jeff? You know what Socrates said right?

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

He and I went to different schools together and what he would have said is why are you swimming up stream and crying when someone points that out. And he would have also agreed with my analogy as soon as he stopped laughing. Oh he just emailed me and said he would have also told you to stop plagiarizing him and come up with your own stuff.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

He and I went to different schools together and what he would have said is why are you swimming up stream and crying when someone points that out. And he would have also agreed with my analogy as soon as he stopped laughing. Oh he just emailed me and said he would have also told you to stop plagiarizing him and come up with your own stuff.

You didn‘t answer the question Jeff.

What’s with the ad hominem attacks?

Instead of answering the question you made more ad hominem attacks further confirming what Socrates said.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Son if Jeff ever attacks you you will know it believe me.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Son if Jeff ever attacks you you will know it believe me.

So now a threat. And still no answer.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Wow you sure don't have a very good grasp of the English language do you.. I am now done wasting my time with you ! good by.

 

[dbfl]

My wife and I were out on the water almost all day today, great weather for it. I have the AK-19 Super Deluxe fins installed, in the lowest (always-down) position. Once again the steering was very good, responsive forward even at idle. Reverse is squirrely with these boats (at least compared to the Sea-Doo Sportster I used to have), and the fins seem to make it as good as it can be.

The surprise and why I'm posting, is we both noticed the boat rode better in light chop. It got a little choppy in the afternoon as usual, and I expected a bumpy ride on the channel. However, it was still comfortable at speed and in fact is why we stayed out as long as we did. If the small planing plate in Jeff's fins is to thank for that - great!

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

My wife and I were out on the water almost all day today, great weather for it. I have the AK-19 Super Deluxe fins installed, in the lowest (always-down) position. Once again the steering was very good, responsive forward even at idle. Reverse is squirrely with these boats (at least compared to the Sea-Doo Sportster I used to have), and the fins seem to make it as good as it can be.

The surprise and why I'm posting, is we both noticed the boat rode better in light chop. It got a little choppy in the afternoon as usual, and I expected a bumpy ride on the channel. However, it was still comfortable at speed and in fact is why we stayed out as long as we did. If the small planing plate in Jeff's fins is to thank for that - great!

Thank you for the report ,assuming from your signature you had thrust vectors on the boat first and removed them to install the super ultimate ak-19 deluxe. Also that plate should keep the wake a bit cleaner than stock and considerably cleaner that the previous steering . Now a question, how does the steering feel when traveling fast, does it make the wheel hard to turn or uncomfortable in any way? How does the boat respond when making turns on plane, also do you feel that the steering input and response is better than the previous steering you had , the same or less effective in forward and reverse at slow docking speeds.

 

[dbfl]

Correct Jeff, I used to have TVXs. It's now slightly more firm at speed vs. either those or nothing, and I like it that way. It's good and certainly not uncomfortable. What I mostly notice is when crossing wakes and in chop. The rear end doesn't slide around, causing unwanted direction changes and having to chase the steering, so to speak. That's at speed as well as minimum wake.

I'm very happy with the response at slow (docking) forward speed, down to idle. Reverse is good and generally controllable, though once the boat starts turning in reverse, it's relatively difficult to get it to stop. I.e. full control input the other direction seems to have little effect for as much as 15-20 sec. That also happened with the TVXs and no fins at all. However the TVXs actually seemed to aggravate that particular behavior, I speculate because they partially blocked or redirected some of the stock lateral thrust. It was that added reverse weirdness that led me to try your fins, and happily it's gone. Anyway, I found smaller control inputs in reverse are better, e.g. at most half steering input vs. cranking the wheel all the way.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Thank you for your review and I appreciate your posting to help others make a choice when it comes to adding steering to their jet boat. I am glad to have helped make your boating more enjoyable.

 

[Troy JK]

Wow you sure don't have a very good grasp of the English language do you.. I am now done wasting my time with you ! good by.

You’re running off potential customers with posts like these. Seriously, it kept me from buying the cobras.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

You’re running off potential customers with posts like these. Seriously, it kept me from buying the cobras.

I have been doing this longer than anyone ,20 years of making jet boats steer and drivers smile, I do it my way and I am 68 years old with 4 kids that are in their late 30's and early 40's and 11 grand children that are all growing up and most going to the military or collide, so let me explain this to you, if you want a phony person who pats you on the back to get your wallet you better realize you are wasting your time trying to overstep your bounds telling me who to be and how to run my business you are totally clueless so mind your own business!
I take the bull by the horns, I go out of my way for the people I like and people who do what you are doing deserve the other steering so cut your nose off to spite your face, enjoy your plastic fins.
I am who I am and anyone here will tell you I don't take a lot of crap from anyone , I don't need to sell a damn thing Actually I am thinking of limiting the parts I sell this year due to the demand doubling again and I have no desire to work 14 to 16 hours a day 7 days a week all summer.
I just do it because it's my baby and my passion, imagine that and I really enjoy helping people when they ask for help you just joined this forum and you are poking the bull so good by to you as well.

 

[Troy JK]

I have been doing this longer than anyone ,20 years of making jet boats steer and drivers smile, I do it my way and I am 68 years old with 4 kids that are in their late 30's and early 40's and 11 grand children that are all growing up and most going to the military or collide, so let me explain this to you, if you want a phony person who pats you on the back to get your wallet you better realize you are wasting your time trying to overstep your bounds telling me who to be and how to run my business you are totally clueless so mind your own business!
I take the bull by the horns, I go out of my way for the people I like and people who do what you are doing deserve the other steering so cut your nose off to spite your face, enjoy your plastic fins.
I am who I am and anyone here will tell you I don't take a lot of crap from anyone , I don't need to sell a damn thing Actually I am thinking of limiting the parts I sell this year due to the demand doubling again and I have no desire to work 14 to 16 hours a day 7 days a week all summer.
I just do it because it's my baby and my passion, imagine that and I really enjoy helping people when they ask for help you just joined this forum and you are poking the bull so good by to you as well.

I don’t want or need anything from you, but less arrogant posts to scroll through would be nice though.
and if you weren’t concerned with sales, you would‘t pounce every time the subject comes up. Nor would you threaten legal action if someone talked about an alternate source.

 

[SCP1]

To be honest I think his comments have turned many people off, including myself at a time. If you put this aside both companies are great. However for a 190 I truly believe the Cobra will be your best option for a couple reasons. One it has a flat piece that has been proven to help the boat plane faster (after owing a 190 this would be enough reason for me alone). Some have also stated it has increased top speed by one or two mph, I cannot say this is true or not, only that I have heard people state this. Also it does not hang down below the rudder in regards to trailering. I know JetBoat Pilot now has a design so you can lock it in the upright position (however this is just another step that could be forgotten when pulling in or out of an area where clearance is an issue). I’m no expert on all the other items you inquired about comparing the two. Will either of these help, yes however with the new rudder/keel I would drive the boat without and then decide if you need it. I had an a 2012 SX190 and added ThrustVectors (just to clarify I made this purchase a long time ago before I think I even knew of the other company and this forum) and then upgraded to a AR195 with a rudder/keel and never felt the need to put anything on it as I think it handled better then my 2012 SX190 with ThrustVectors.