GAS TREATMENT ?

[wango tango]

Just wanted to share with everyone that that the techron complete fuel system cleaner is Awesome!!
I first used it on my jeep a month ago because of some Acceleration and idle issues worked great. Just put some in a couple days ago on my 195 scarab because of very rough idling and took it out today smooth as butter. I don't like gas additives but this stuff is great.

 

[wango tango]

Here's pic

 

[Mt.Ridge Adventures]

Just wanted to share with everyone that that the techron complete fuel system cleaner is Awesome!!
I first used it on my jeep a month ago because of some Acceleration and idle issues worked great. Just put some in a couple days ago on my 195 scarab because of very rough idling and took it out today smooth as butter. I don't like gas additives but this stuff is great.

Sometimes go and fill up a good gas without ethanol, i know where i'm from it's a lot more $ but here and there let the engine get that pure power.
I use star Tron, Lucas, amsoil, when i can and they work good

 

[swatski]

I use Ring Free all the time. It's expensive but I buy it in bulk, 32 oz treats about 320 gal (for about $60).

This is from a ChevronTexaco Fuels Technical Service:
"Yamaha Ring Fee is similar to Techron and Techron Concentrate. The main deposit control additive is the same. Techron and Techron concentrate are designed for automotive four-stroke engines as a deposit control additive. Yahama Ring Free is formulated specifically for two-stroke engines."

Apparently, unlike RingFree, Techron does not contain filmers to protect soft metal parts from ethanol-related corrosion and that may be why it is not recommended for 2-strokers. Ring Free is recommended for both 2- and 4-stroke marine engines.

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[Dean P]

I use Ring Free all the time. It's expensive but I buy it in bulk, 32 oz treats about 320 gal (for about $60).

This is from a ChevronTexaco Fuels Technical Service:
"Yamaha Ring Fee is similar to Techron and Techron Concentrate. The main deposit control additive is the same. Techron and Techron concentrate are designed for automotive four-stroke engines as a deposit control additive. Yahama Ring Free is formulated specifically for two-stroke engines."

Apparently, unlike RingFree, Techron does not contain filmers to protect soft metal parts from ethanol-related corrosion and that may be why it is not recommended for 2-strokers. Ring Free is recommended for both 2- and 4-stroke marine engines.

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Never knew... Thank you.

When you say all the time, do you mean every fill up or once a month? Do you notice a difference after using it or is it mainly for maitenance?

 

[swatski]

Never knew... Thank you.

When you say all the time, do you mean every fill up or once a month? Do you notice a difference after using it or is it mainly for maitenance?

"All the time" ends up being most fill ups, I would say 80%. I eyeball the amount, otherwise I would be tempted not to use it due to my laziness, but it can be aliquoted easily using one of those (recycled) 2-stroker oil dispenser containers. 1oz per 10gal.

I have known commercial operators on the East coast and my own boat mechanic here who use it religously in small 2 stroker outboards to prevent siezing pistons (typical mode of death there). Keeps the intake valves clean in 4 strokers, which can be one of very few issues with Yamaha marine engines. I do not see any effects on performance effects as it's used continuously for maintenance in my case. I see it as cheap insurance.

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[Julian]

Everything I've read (except for the stuff written by the makers of fuel additives) is that fuel additives are useless for modern engines unless you have one of the following:

• Bad gas...usually water in it
• About to store long term - then stabilizers are useful
• Diesel additives for cold weather

I'm all for putting seafoam in when you think you might have water....but all the time? I think I'd be changing my gas station if i was having issues that often. My engines run like butter all the time...do others not have my luck?

 

[wango tango]

Mine usually mine runs great with shell v power premium , I will probably not put anymore in gas unless I need to. It did help ,even if it was bad gas, and still running great.
By the way great info guys!!!

 

[Dean P]

Mine usually mine runs great with shell v power premium , I will probably not put anymore in gas unless I need to. It did help ,even if it was bad gas, and still running great.
By the way great info guys!!!

I only use premium. It's the only way to get top performance out of these engines.

 

[swatski]

Everything I've read (except for the stuff written by the makers of fuel additives) is that fuel additives are useless for modern engines unless you have one of the following:

• Bad gas...usually water in it
• About to store long term - then stabilizers are useful
• Diesel additives for cold weather

I'm all for putting seafoam in when you think you might have water....but all the time? I think I'd be changing my gas station if i was having issues that often. My engines run like butter all the time...do others not have my luck?

I would agree about treating fuel, I don’t do that unless I know that the boat will be stored for longer periods of time, then I will add stabil.

But we are talking about treating fuel injection/intakes and preventing carbon deposits, which is a completely different issue. And yes those still happen in modern engines, fuel injected and all, the introduction of ethanol not helping the issue either.

I would also agree with your statement as (mostly) true for operating in cars. However, Ring free is made to work in marine water cooled engines, of which have different combustion temperatures than your auto.

Carbon deposits on the intake valves and stems is real in Yamaha engines, there is plenty of pictures showing that in MR-1 engines (which I believe are actually more “modern” in design than 1.8 engines). So it’s not true that ring free has no place there.

I tend to use premium gas whenever I have access to it which is always except when my boat is dry slipped in my marina, so about half the time. Then I’m basically at the mercy of marina gas.

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[Julian]

I only use premium. It's the only way to get top performance out of these engines.

Does your boat call for premium? Putting in higher octane gas into an engine that isn't timed for it is not advised (won't hurt, but wont make any difference either - again...from what I've read).

 

[swatski]

Does your boat call for premium? Putting in higher octane gas into an engine that isn't timed for it is not advised (won't hurt, but wont make any difference either - again...from what I've read).

That’s correct but premium has more detergents and additives that don’t hurt.
As far as performance, no difference in Yamaha sc or n/a. That’s been shown.

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[wango tango]

Does your boat call for premium? Putting in higher octane gas into an engine that isn't timed for it is not advised (won't hurt, but wont make any difference either - again...from what I've read).

Supercharger engines for peak performance it's recommended.
It

Does your boat call for premium? Putting in higher octane gas into an engine that isn't timed for it is not advised (won't hurt, but wont make any difference either - again...from what I've read).

For supercharger engines yes, for peak performance premium gas is recommended. No issues if you want regular gas.

 

[Dean P]

Does your boat call for premium? Putting in higher octane gas into an engine that isn't timed for it is not advised (won't hurt, but wont make any difference either - again...from what I've read).

Yes, it does call for 91 octane. It's in the engine manual. Using less cuts the performance down. Can't outrun the crazy afternoon thunder bangers.

 

[Julian]

Yes, it does call for 91 octane. It's in the engine manual. Using less cuts the performance down. Can't outrun the crazy afternoon thunder bangers.

Cool...I don't have the models and engines memorized for all the manufacturers.....most supercharged engines will run better on the higher octane...which is why the manual calls for it. Putting 93 in an engine that calls for 89...won't hurt, but I'd rather donate my money to a charity vs an oil company....or buy MORE gas and boat more!!!

 

[swatski]

Cool...I don't have the models and engines memorized for all the manufacturers.....most supercharged engines will run better on the higher octane...which is why the manual calls for it. Putting 93 in an engine that calls for 89...won't hurt, but I'd rather donate my money to a charity vs an oil company....or buy MORE gas and boat more!!!

Not relevant to this discussion of Yamaha jet boat engines, but octane does matter in engines with sophisticated knock sensor computers.For example, in many Toyota trucks and cars the ECU adjusts ignition timing to octane levels, meaning there is more power/torque generated burning 93 vs 87. I've pretty much confirmed that in my LC200 by tracking rpm/gear/speed on an uphill stretch over the last few months. Surprisingly, differences are quite significant, basically - I can tell. I try to run highest octane I can find now, particularly when towing. That NYT article is not accurate, albeit in regular driving - who cares.

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[Billtex2000]

People that work on my carbureted Waverunner recommend K100MG. A little pricey but they swear by it.

 

[Julian]

Not relevant to this discussion of Yamaha jet boat engines, but octane does matter in engines with sophisticated knock sensor computers.For example, in many Toyota trucks and cars the ECU adjusts ignition timing to octane levels, meaning there is more power/torque generated burning 93 vs 87. I've pretty much confirmed that in my LC200 by tracking rpm/gear/speed on an uphill stretch over the last few months. Surprisingly, differences are quite significant, basically - I can tell. I try to run highest octane I can find now, particularly when towing. That NYT article is not accurate, albeit in regular driving - who cares.

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I was fairly sure the article said you should use the recommended octane for your vehicle....of course I cant read the article now without paying and as my comments suggest already....I'm too cheap!!!! LOL

 

[swatski]

I was fairly sure the article said you should use the recommended octane for your vehicle....of course I cant read the article now without paying and as my comments suggest already....I'm too cheap!!!! LOL

I can shoot you a copy for free! lol

In all seriousness, yes, that is correct. The recommended octane is adequate no doubt, and works just fine.
However, some of the newer engines will still pull the ignition depending on the octane, that's been well (or relatively well) documented now in the Toyota (Tundra, LC, LX560) world wherein a sophisticated knock sensing algorithm permits more aggressive igntion timing if a premium (high octane) gas is used.

The differences are not insignificant, I can tell the difference after I have experimented with 87 vs 93 enough. It will not make your truck a race machine but, for example, it helps keep the truck in higher gear at highway speeds or going up an incline - indicating increase in usable torque. I find towing with premium noticeably "nicer" over long hauls.

EDIT: one of those debates was started by the curious recommendation of Toyota/Lexus for regular vs premium use, respectively, in their twin LC200/LX570 trucks - which share the drivetrain. With recommended fuel, the LX is listed as generating more torque/power, albeit marginally. That had some people scratch their heads, but the ECU/knock sensing algorithm Toyota uses apparently provides the basis for the difference.

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[Julian]

I can shoot you a copy for free! lol

In all seriousness, yes, that is correct. The recommended octane is adequate no doubt, and works just fine.
However, some of the newer engines will still pull the ignition depending on the octane, that's been well (or relatively well) documented now in the Toyota (Tundra, LC, LX560) world wherein a sophisticated knock sensing algorithm permits more aggressive igntion timing if a premium (high octane) gas is used.

The differences are not insignificant, I can tell the difference after I have experimented with 87 vs 93 enough. It will not make your truck a race machine but, for example, it helps keep the truck in higher gear at highway speeds or going up an incline - indicating increase in usable torque. I find towing with premium noticeably "nicer" over long hauls.

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Totally agree with this....that is what the knock sensor is ensuring.....no low pressure pre detonation which will f up your engine. I assume it does this by retarding the supercharger...which would make a huge difference in performance!