Help me understand this, guys

[buckbuck]

Saw this on a Moomba. I figure it is to help shape the wake but can't find any info. Anybody have experience or knowledge of this? Would it help our Yamaha's?

 

[Julian]

I forget which brand it is that calls them a "wake gate", but you are correct...it is supposed to improve the wake size and shape.

 

[dan144k]

I don't think the Yamaha's have enough height under the swim deck to mount that type of device.

 

[octavio3311]

I would love to see something so simple bolted to a Yamaha.

 

[OrangeTJ]

Looks like a manually deployed iteration of the Malibu/Axis SurfGate. The idea is that it delays the curl of the wake at surfing speeds, creating a nice surfable clean face. The beauty of it (at least as I've experienced behind an Axis) is that you don't have to list the boat over to one side to get a decent wake, meaning that you can switch between goofy and regular footed riders without having to change the ballast setup. Also, the boats obviously handle better when not listed over.

 

[buckbuck]

I sure would like the Missouri boys to come up with something like this for our boats. Jerry?...Mark? you guys out there?

 

[ar240owner]

We are ,

 

[subysti]

Malibu calls it a surf gate and theirs is electronically controlled. There is also a power wedge for wakeboarding. They have vids on their website. Guess that's why the boats cost $100K.

http://www.malibuboats.com/innovations.html

 

[dan144k]

I at one point thought of building something custom, but more like a surf-gate.

Basically was going to use trim tabs and mount on the side of the transom rather than the traditional way of putting it on the bottom. It could even be a small trim tab which you could make different templates and bolt them to it. Would be easy to wire and control as you drove along.

But transom space is the problem as seen in picture (not my boat, borrowed a picture)

 

[octavio3311]

Yes - transom design with the built in swim platform/porch - I see that as the limiting factor! I guess that's why all the wakeboats have such a large squared off transom with bolt on platforms.
But I still would like to see something like this. The wake wedge is cool - but I don't wanna bolt on and unbolt off and undo it to flip it from 1 side or the other. As cool as it is - I simply won't do it.
With something like the Moomba Flow - its always there ready to be manually deployed. I like the simply design.

 

[trace]

The Moomba flow is more like the Nautique NSS system which is based on an interceptor style trim tab. The Malibu/Axis version is Surfgate which is more like a vertically mounted trim tab. All of which create a wake by causing delayed convergence in the wake formation behind the boat without listing it. The boats are evenly weighted and these devices are deployed on the off side to cause the wave to travel farther aft before filling in behind the boat. This causes the surf side to fill in without the other wake and fold over the other side forming the surf wake.

I wouldn't say it improves or makes a bigger wake, just allows you to make a wake without listing the boat by manipulating the wake behind the boat. The downside to these devices is they create a lot of drag and cause even the wakeboats to use a lot of fuel when in use, the upside is they can switch sides fast and are evenly weighted without listing.

Now for the bad news. I tried the NSS style of this the end of '13 and early '14 on my 212SS. What I determined from testing is it is probably not possible to create delayed convergence behind our boats. Primarily because the jet thrust generates a high pressure wall of water that prevents the surf side from coming in and filling/forming like on the wake boats. You could see the fore-aft shift in the wake caused by the device, but it couldn't cross the jet wash to form a wake on the opposite side. I did see some affect like the Supra Swell system in the barrel mode which is deployed surf side and it did create a barrel on the surf side, that grew height with additional weight, but it still had to be listed hard to surf side. The other problem is it also creates a substantial amount of lift on the surf side which negates some of the ballast and rolls the boat the wrong way. It also adds a ton of drag causing a much higher throttle setting, using even more fuel than just ballast. We even tried riding it and it was so-so.

Maybe the Malibu version would work, I don't know, didn't try that style. Good luck to everyone that gives it a try.

 

[jcyamaharider]

Just to add what @trace has said you might be able to make a convergence system behind our boat work, BUT you will still have to use the Wake Wedge. The whole purpose of the our wedge is to deflect the jet blast and clean up the wake face. That is why just ballast will not work alone. Also a limiting factor on a convergence system is the back of our boat. Not really enough room to mount a sturdy tab. Plus I really don't want to drill holes into my hull for it not to work.

 

[dan144k]

Offset nozzles, may push the jet down for improved surfing or surfing bolt-ons.

Originally I put them on the boat for Lake Michigan to push the bow down (angles the jet slightly down). They worked great and also cut the jet blast down from 50' to 25' when tubing. I had them installed on both jets on top and on bottom, aluminum inserts from a company called watcom.
Last winter I JB welded the holes and drill new holes in the watcom offset location. Need to find pictures I took.
Then I got my trim tabs and and took them off 2 years ago. Stock strait units currently installed.

I have never used the boat with ballast and the offset nozzles at the same time. Need to install and test this summer.

 

[ar240owner]

I tried offset , did not work for surfing

 

[wschmidt05]

I'll echo the comments about the jet wash not allowing a surf gate to work. This was my attempt at a surf gate (couldn't find a larger piece of hdpe), and seemed promising as a quick attach/detach surf option. There was a little improvement in the wave shape, but couldn't provide the same delayed conversion as the Axis/Malibu gates. Any advise is welcome, but looks as though the Wake Wedge is the way to go. I'm just not excited to list the boat to one side, or telling people where to sit when surfing.




Slight right hand turn and evenly weighted ballast. 550lb fat sacs under each back seat and an 800lb partially on back seat and swim platform. Just me driving, 210lb.

 

[jcyamaharider]

That wave looks good!!! But the one thing in your sentence is what I don't like anymore. " slight turn" . Once you go straight line it is VERY hard to go back to a turn unless you are just turning around for another pass.

One other thing about convergence is i see your tab is just straight back and not out to the side like a convergence system works. Can you give it more angle to make it push the back end of the boat?

 

[wschmidt05]

Good thought, I will play with the angle. It's at a 5-10 degree already, but pics don't show very well. I've seen other "ghetto gates" that are straight back, and seem to work ok. Thanks @jcyamaharider.

 

[jcyamaharider]

I know some of the surf gates out there are almost 90 degrees to the boat. Axis, Wake Setters, Natuiques.....etc.

I would be curious to see what a 45 degree angle would do.

 

[Englewoodcowboy]

I would be more interested in a surf gate system than the wedge however we know the wedge works. The downfall is listing the boat but thats not a bog deal either. I had looked at the Nautique system and others and they are pretty much a 90° extension of the hull that sticks out 6" to 8 ". I too think if you put more angle on it, try 45° first and go from there.

 

[jcyamaharider]

I will say this, there is no replacement for displacement. Meaning the bigger the wave you want the more ballast you are going to have to throw in the boat. Example. Pic of our wave with @Boat Crazy in the pic for size reference.