JetBoatPilot's New Surf Tech, Thrust Vector Wake

[dnicholas47]

It’s pretty cool that this forum is blessed with 2 innovators like Jeff and Will. I’m kind of amazed Yamaha hasn’t scooped up both of these guys to work for the mother ship.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Thank you an oasis in the desert lol.
Things play out strangely sometimes, I would have gladly licensed the parts they tried to patent but were turned down because of my existing patents and for practically nothing in comparison to the actual costs they incurred doing all the patent work and redesigning of their boats hulls etc,
So who knows what drives people.

 

[swatski]

I want to clarify that there is no setting that keeps the fins down while at speed. The fins are always up unless below 5mph. We have always chosen this route for several reasons which I can explain if need be.

That just doesn't make a whole lot of sense, sorry, maybe I'm confused.

The new Wake TV fins have surf settings and use stoppers, right? At surfing speeds, any part of a fin below the nozzle will be submerged especially if you have ballast pushing the stern down... while the boat is moving at 10-11mph with blips of 15+mph common while the boat is settling down at the desired speed.
Not to mention if any device like a wake booster is added to the mix that's forcing counter-steer, those paddle like fins will be literally sideways and... submerged.

Again, my apologies if I am not understanding this correctly.

--

 

[Wisefam22]

@swatski my understand is they work like every other fin he has made that flips up. It has a stop at the top... idk if other models have a stop as well or they just go and spring brings them back down when at slow speeds.

The difference is the corrugated plastic piece holding fins togrther/in place instead of just metal brace. That had different notches cut into the fins allowing it to have x degree of deflect which provides benefit for different sports or non at all.

Edit. The birds break stopper just stops the fins st designed level to keep them out of the way, but middle plastic brace slightly in jet stream or not at all. I understood it to be a mini wedge per say set to desired degree via notch that helps clean wake. If that makes any sense.

 

[MidnightRider]

@swatski my understand is they work like every other fin he has made that flips up. It has a stop at the top... idk if other models have a stop as well or they just go and spring brings them back down when at slow speeds.

The difference is the corrugated plastic piece holding fins togrther/in place instead of just metal brace. That had different notches cut into the fins allowing it to have x degree of deflect which provides benefit for different sports or non at all.

Edit. The birds break stopper just stops the fins st designed level to keep them out of the way, but middle plastic brace slightly in jet stream or not at all. I understood it to be a mini wedge per say set to desired degree via notch that helps clean wake. If that makes any sense.

Yeah this my understanding as well. If you think of the new "deflector" now just replaces where the old "splash guard" was. The fins still come out of the water above 5 mph but the "beaks" stop the fins at the top of their "out of water" position and then the new deflector can be set to ride on top of the jet stream ("off position" which is similar to what the old splash guard did) or incrementally have more and more affect on the top of the jet stream knocking down the spray. Seems as you get into the lower wakeboarding and tubing settings that it is doing more of diverting the jet stream but up in the "off" or "surfing" setting is is more just knocking down the top spray of the jet stream. At least that is what I'm getting from the pictures and vids I've seen.

 

[swatski]

Right, I get that I think. But surfing speeds are higher than 5mph, in fact it is easy to overshoot considerably all the while the stern, when ballasted, is all but submerged... and so will be the fins.

It is also true many people surf with TVs with zero issues.

But what is difficult for me to understand is this. If you want these new wake/surf TVs to be considered as surfing mods, as clearly advertised by JBP, thus influencing the surf wake, they have to resist water while being submerged. Or, alternatively, like regular TVs they stay out of the way in which case those would not really be surfing mods?

—

 

[MidnightRider]

Right, I get that I think. But surfing speeds are higher than 5mph, in fact it is easy to overshoot considerably all the while the stern, when ballasted, is all but submerged... and so will be the fins.

It is also true many people surf with TVs with zero issues.

But what is difficult for me to understand is this. If you want these new wake/surf TVs to be considered as surfing mods, as clearly advertised by JBP, thus influencing the surf wake, they have to resist water while being submerged. Or, alternatively, like regular TVs they stay out of the way in which case those would not really be surfing mods?

—

Yeah some of this is unclear to me as well. Wish we had more video of what they look like while running in the water. I think though that JBP comment "that there is no setting that keeps the fins down while at speed" is more to address the fin steering aspect, they are still steering fins, and they are type of steering fins that come up and have no steering influence at speed as they always did. I think that is what he was addressing with that comment. What isn't clear yet I think is how much influence the "deflector" has on the jet stream. It could be very little in "surf" mode, basically just knocking down the excess over spray at the top of the stream or does it really forcefully redirect the stream downward. I don't think you could call this product a "surf wake creator" but more a "surf wake cleaner". In my estimation you will still need something to create/build a nice wake, this product will just help clean up the "froth" so to speak by knocking down the over spray. Isn't that what the wake wedge does? It doesn't really "shape" the wake but just knocks down the over spray to clean up the frothy soft stuff? I always imagined the wake wedge not having much force on it and the same with these new wake vectors (except when going into wakeboard or tube setting). Maybe I have this all wrong though cause I don't have any real life experience with either just from what I've seen and heard on this forum.

 

[1WetBoat]

I think the confusion is in that we are still looking at these as regular fins that pop out at speeds over 5mph and that is it.
From what i can see the fins themselves have nothing to do with the surf/wake enhancement portion. They are just the "brackets" that hold the surf/wake portion that actually does the work. The fins go up as they normally do to a certain degree but the wedge in-between the fins is what is actually doing the work modifying the jet itself. Look at the diagrams carefully and it makes sense. Instead of that normal bar that spans the fins there is now a wedge in its place with a way larger surface area which is what touches the jet. The original fins without the wake/surf enhancements in up position are pretty parallel to the jet itself.

 

[dadofral]

Called this morning and ordered mine!! Had a $300 gift cert and when I trade mine in this spring for the other $100.00 credit it's gonna be a great deal.....can't wait to try these!

 

[JetBoatPilot]

At sub plane speeds the fins could be below water until the boat gets on plane. The point I was trying to make was that the fins are completely out of the water at plane speeds which is something we've always felt was important.

At surf speeds, 10-11 mph the fins could still be in the water but I have not gone back to check for myself to see how much of the fin is submerged. Would be interested to see next time we test.

And yes you guys are correct in that the fins are merely a carrier for the deflector which does all the work. It does nothing to my knowledge to create a larger wake, but it does a lot to create more laminar flow which gives a better ride for those using twin engine boats to surf behind. The single engine boats don't have this problem because the jet thrust is centerline while the twins jet thrust is offset from the center.

Finally to address the added stresses of the work being done by the Thrust Vector Wake fins we chose 3/8" thick UHMW PE, or the brand name Starboard for our fin material. It is extremely high impact resistant and has very low moisture absorption. This has been our choice of material since 2011 and its worked well for us. the deflector in production was originally slated to be cast aluminum but some new developments that we've discovered during testing may allow us to create the part from 11 ga. stainless steel and powder coated sheet metal.

We also eliminated the Eagle's Beak that was used in the earlier prototypes to provide the stop to the fin's rotation in favor of a side mounted stainless steel post. It is much stronger and also gives us more room to rotate the nozzle from side to side without hitting components on the pump.

 

[dadofral]

At sub plane speeds the fins could be below water until the boat gets on plane. The point I was trying to make was that the fins are completely out of the water at plane speeds which is something we've always felt was important.

At surf speeds, 10-11 mph the fins could still be in the water but I have not gone back to check for myself to see how much of the fin is submerged. Would be interested to see next time we test.

And yes you guys are correct in that the fins are merely a carrier for the deflector which does all the work. It does nothing to my knowledge to create a larger wake, but it does a lot to create more laminar flow which gives a better ride for those using twin engine boats to surf behind. The single engine boats don't have this problem because the jet thrust is centerline while the twins jet thrust is offset from the center.

Finally to address the added stresses of the work being done by the Thrust Vector Wake fins we chose 3/8" thick UHMW PE, or the brand name Starboard for our fin material. It is extremely high impact resistant and has very low moisture absorption. This has been our choice of material since 2011 and its worked well for us. the deflector in production was originally slated to be cast aluminum but some new developments that we've discovered during testing may allow us to create the part from 11 ga. stainless steel and powder coated sheet metal.

We also eliminated the Eagle's Beak that was used in the earlier prototypes to provide the stop to the fin's rotation in favor of a side mounted stainless steel post. It is much stronger and also gives us more room to rotate the nozzle from side to side without hitting components on the pump.

Just a reminder we do stainless steel Will and if you’ll allow would love to quote some product for you. I have 304 and 316 grade SS in stock at all times. Let me know if we can take a crack at it. Thanks!! Jeff@royalsheet.com

 

[JetBoatPilot]

Thanks for the heads up. Will keep that in mind.

 

[DavisAR195]

Just saw this on instagram that they added an off position. Really looking forward to seeing this baby in action.

 

[Mitchell_dh]

At sub plane speeds the fins could be below water until the boat gets on plane. The point I was trying to make was that the fins are completely out of the water at plane speeds which is something we've always felt was important.

At surf speeds, 10-11 mph the fins could still be in the water but I have not gone back to check for myself to see how much of the fin is submerged. Would be interested to see next time we test.

And yes you guys are correct in that the fins are merely a carrier for the deflector which does all the work. It does nothing to my knowledge to create a larger wake, but it does a lot to create more laminar flow which gives a better ride for those using twin engine boats to surf behind. The single engine boats don't have this problem because the jet thrust is centerline while the twins jet thrust is offset from the center.

Finally to address the added stresses of the work being done by the Thrust Vector Wake fins we chose 3/8" thick UHMW PE, or the brand name Starboard for our fin material. It is extremely high impact resistant and has very low moisture absorption. This has been our choice of material since 2011 and its worked well for us. the deflector in production was originally slated to be cast aluminum but some new developments that we've discovered during testing may allow us to create the part from 11 ga. stainless steel and powder coated sheet metal.

We also eliminated the Eagle's Beak that was used in the earlier prototypes to provide the stop to the fin's rotation in favor of a side mounted stainless steel post. It is much stronger and also gives us more room to rotate the nozzle from side to side without hitting components on the pump.

So what if any effect will the surf and wake setting have on a single engine boat? Or is this product better suited for the twin engine boats?

 

[JetBoatPilot]

So what if any effect will the surf and wake setting have on a single engine boat? Or is this product better suited for the twin engine boats?

It has been tested exclusively on twins. Singles will be tested next but from I can tell this far the singles wont be benefited from the first two settings. It will however benefit from the dry tube ride and possibly trim feature.

The reason it wont be benefited by the first two settings is because the wake is already really clean on single engine boats due to the jet pump being centerline on the hull.

 

[Bothomas]

Placing an order very soon!

 

[Sbrown]

Definitely glad I held off putting any extra fins on the boat. I still dont feel the need for the steering improvements, but to be able to knock the spray down a bit for tubing and skiing might make these new fins worth investing in.

 

[SCP1]

It has been tested exclusively on twins. Singles will be tested next but from I can tell this far the singles wont be benefited from the first two settings. It will however benefit from the dry tube ride and possibly trim feature.

The reason it wont be benefited by the first two settings is because the wake is already really clean on single engine boats due to the jet pump being centerline on the hull.

Honestly I’m optimistic this will still help clean the wave on a single as the only way to get a clean wave is to drive in a big circle with the boat listed.

 

[MattFX4]

Any update on videos of testing with ballast and different settings? Would like to see it tested with the new wakebooster also once it is available.

 

[AZ Native]

I placed an order in December and my confidence continues to grow seeing all the enhancements as they get closer to serious testing and production.

All the talk about surfing is interesting, but all I care about is cleaning up the wake for tubers and wake boarding, I'm guessing I'm part of a silent majority. Will has a knack for identifying a unique problem and solving for it. Tubers hate getting behind my 242LS. So much spray. So many after market products are just a "solution looking for a problem". Will has a real product here for a really annoying problem. Can't wait to change out my TVX's for these. No pressure Will, but I need them by mid-May for an annual Lake Powell vacation.

PS: If my family (grand kids) decide to get serious someday about wake surfing, I will be looking for a different boat.