Lake Nazi's busted me !

[justason]

Our lake is owned by the local Coal power plant. When they built this lake they wanted to theme/control it as a sportsman lake, primarily focusing on fishing and wildlife management. As a result we don't own the land forward of the 450ft elevation mark (lake sits at 425ft). Our lot has a decent slope to it so we're a welcome 50-60 ft off the water. For the most part I fully support the lake rules.

The power plant has said for some time now they are not in the lake management or enforcement business, as a result folks are simply respecting the rules and being self-managed.

One rule is NO moored objects due to navigational threats...well I knowingly broke this one. When I was 6, and TV came in 2 colors only....My dad built a raft out of fuel drop tanks. I refurbished it about 5 years ago and its been in the water, tucked in our cove since then.
http://www.justason.com/mayolake/IMG00119.jpg
http://www.justason.com/mayolake/IMG00205.jpg
http://www.justason.com/mayolake/super-raft.jpg

Well, if you follow NC news, or this may have gone national, the power company is in a world of sh*t from a recent coal ash spill into the Dan River..EPA nightmare...So as a result they are now enforcing the lake rules to the letter. I got nailed for this and a "structure". No-one can tell me what the structure is or what the definition of a structure is...but there is something I need to remove somewhere. I've asked for a copy of the lake rules and no-one can source them. everything I know to date is hear-say or learned from realtors/neighbors.......

well, Last week I removed the raft from the lake. I have no idea what to do with this thing now, but the emotional attachment (and cool factor) is thru the roof !

I asked the lawyer if all this was to try to impress upon the EPA...She didn't like that..both times I asked it !
we are not allowed a true "dock" on the shoreline, so what everyone does is strip a pontoon boat clean and tie it to shore. Now its a boat, not a dock. When I rebuilt mine I framed it out so it doesn't look like a pontoon boat..I'm thinking this is my crime and I need to get them to look under the deck to see the pontoons........we'll see how this will play out as summer progresses....

 

[Ronnie]

I know all to well what you are talking about, just last week I got a $150 ticket (not a warning this time) for parking my boat on my front side yard on grass crete ($2,500) I was forced to replace my concrete driveway with last year (another $2,500). I had the driveway in place for around 10 years with no issues until the day an anonymous neighbor complained about it and the city started enforcing its rules on me.

Looking at your pics maybe you could re-register the raft as a boat, like a canoe then show the Lake Nazi's the registration to support your claim that its a boat not a structure. Just a thought since registration is generally "cheap" ($32 here in NCAL, that's for two years with a quagga/zebra mussel decal), you may end up losing more money by standing in line at the DMV.

 

[Julian]

Must be hard to follow the rules if you can't read them! "You've transgressed the unwritten law"

 

[Julian]

@Ronnie I thought you'd solved that whole issue with the grass crete? What was the ticket for?

 

[justason]

Very interesting reply: Allot of folks on the lake do register these "pontoons" as boats to be sure they are in the elusive guidelines. NC wildlife states: Rowboats, canoes, and rafts moved only by oars, paddles, or the current do not need registration in North Carolina. so I'm good here...If I tie this raft off to shore it will be legit, then I could swim it out/back each weekend....I may do that next year.....

I understand the origination of the HOA..but catering to the one that complains is ridiculous....we need to resurrect Darwinism.[/QUOTE]

 

[Andy S]

@justason I work for a utility here in South Carolina and by no means am I defending mine or yours but the rules about the lake are federal government approved rules that the power company is required to enforce. The government agency responsible is FERC (federal energy regulatory commision, http://www.ferc.gov/) and the rules are filed with them. The rules are part of the power companies license to operate the power plant(s) on the lake, it could be a hydro unit, coal unit, gas unit, nuclear unit, etc. These rules are set for a length of time, our lakes recent rules/license are in effect for 50 years. If the power company is found to not be enforcing the rules, FERC could in extreme situations take the power companies license away to operate the power plant(s) on that lake which would probably result in you paying higher utility bills, shit always rolls down hill and as a consumer we are at the bottom of the hill. Some of the rules are what the power company wants or has agreed too with the local community and some are force upon them by the federal government. For instance, the lake (Lake Murray) I boat on has a similar rule about building & clear setback. Ours is from 480' (full pool) back 20', you are only permitted to clear brush and limb up trees, you are not permitted to cut down trees.

I know this doesn't help, but knowing who to complain about might and what you are up against to change anything might.

 

[justason]

@justason I work for a utility here in South Carolina and by no means am I defending mine or yours but the rules about the lake are federal government approved rules that the power company is required to enforce. The government agency responsible is FERC (federal energy regulatory commision, http://www.ferc.gov/) and the rules are filed with them. The rules are part of the power companies license to operate the power plant(s) on the lake, it could be a hydro unit, coal unit, gas unit, nuclear unit, etc. These rules are set for a length of time, our lakes recent rules/license are in effect for 50 years. If the power company is found to not be enforcing the rules, FERC could in extreme situations take the power companies license away to operate the power plant(s) on that lake which would probably result in you paying higher utility bills, shit always rolls down hill and as a consumer we are at the bottom of the hill. Some of the rules are what the power company wants or has agreed too with the local community and some are force upon them by the federal government. For instance, the lake (Lake Murray) I boat on has a similar rule about building & clear setback. Ours is from 480' (full pool) back 20', you are only permitted to clear brush and limb up trees, you are not permitted to cut down trees.

I know this doesn't help, but knowing who to complain about might and what you are up against to change anything might.

Hi Andy.
Actually this helps a great deal. The lawyer made mention to the group they need to report to. .. I found some "fun" info here just now :
http://www.duke-energy.com/lakes/management.asp

they don't address my lake period..., and I haven't found anything on "docks" yet. I have found erosion control statement that I am within the guidelines of.....except the small detail that I didn't ask first....
Thanks

 

[Jim Robeson]

@justason ... I know what you're going through. Our lake is owned by the Corp of Engineers and they are very strict in what can and cannot be done to "their lake". I have to have my dock inspected every five years and if I want to add anything to it I have to ask permission. I added a solar power source to it 2 years ago and I will have to submit a set of engineered plans and have those plans signed off by a certified electrician or tear it down. I've only got maybe $300 in the whole setup but I would have to spend $3000 to have it done to there specification. It is solar for crying out loud!

 

[rkluck]

Our lake is run by the Corp as well (not to be confused with run well). They have all kinds of rules about not cutting trees etc. I am looking at a house on the lake and was told you can't live there year round?! I found that odd, so I asked more and it seems you can't have any mail delivered so people get a PO box and then if asked you just say no I don't live here year round. I don't know if I want to get into a house that I planned on living in and always worrying about someone complaining and then what? The house is great but I am very concerned now. Apprently people do this but I am worried I would either get fined to death or forced to move! Has anyone encountered something like this before?

 

[Jim Robeson]

@rkluck ... Never heard of that. Our lake house is on my property, not the Corp's. The property that leads to my dock is "theirs" but I have permission to mow but only 250 feet from the base of my house. There are all kinds of folks that live around Table Rock and I could've had a mailbox but chose to have my mail delivered to my Springfield address. I guess different Corp owned lakes could have different rules but I never have heard of that one.

 

[rkluck]

This is on the Corp property (you actully lease the property). I just don't like the situation. It seems risky for a house! Slowly talking myself out of it but then I look at the house and it is great and has a two level dock, a lift and boat house. It would be so great!!

 

[Jim Robeson]

Yeah, that is different. Especially if you don't own the property. Can I ask how much they are asking??

 

[justason]

Our lake is run by the Corp as well (not to be confused with run well). They have all kinds of rules about not cutting trees etc. I am looking at a house on the lake and was told you can't live there year round?! I found that odd, so I asked more and it seems you can't have any mail delivered so people get a PO box and then if asked you just say no I don't live here year round. I don't know if I want to get into a house that I planned on living in and always worrying about someone complaining and then what? The house is great but I am very concerned now. Apprently people do this but I am worried I would either get fined to death or forced to move! Has anyone encountered something like this before?

I have a hard time with building/owning a structure on top of something you don't own. I guess its what the fine print says and history.

The sister lake to us is owned by the power company, there you own to the high water mark, from there to the shoreline they lease back to you every year for some fee. You can do what you want(ish) with the land inclusive of boat houses and docks....I don't see a threat there, but again, the rules are in their favor.

update: Just spoke to my neighbor who got a letter as well...He hit the legal department with the same questions as I did.."whats a structure"...still no answer, we're hoping it goes away.
I did find a "loophole" in their lake management paperwork I may be able to confuse matters with......this sh*t really draws on my yankee roots.

 

[-klb-]

FERC is a bad word here as well. One of the utilities had to start reporting on power line easements, and found some trees that have been in violation of easement covenants for about 20 years. We had been hanging a lot of Christmas lights on them the last 6 years. They had to go away within 60 days.

 

[Jim Robeson]

I hope it all works out for you. We are always told that the lake isn't here for recreation it's here for flood control. Even though we bring in some $200 to $300 million in visitor related revenue to the lake area...all through recreation!!

 

[Ronnie]

I haven't experience this myself but years ago the county or state gov started kicking squatters off of land around lake berryessa, near sf. Some of these people had homes / cabins built on the land that had been in use for generations. Some tried to make adverse possession claims but all failed because they didn't pay taxes on the land. At about the same time most if not all of the marina owners lost their leases the resul being a lot of dock equipment was list for sale on craigslist. I read it was a land grab for a development deal than never materialized but whatever the cause the result was clear. The lake is sparsely populated even on hot summer weekends, there are few places to stay over night in the area and the local economy was definitely hurt and continues to suffer.

It's funny how different entities act. Here in the ca delta they don't have the resources to pull sunken boats out of the waterways but if your boat sinks you have x days to get it out of the water or you will be fined for everyday it stays in if it has gas or fuel on board. The result I've seen is the many will buy a very used house boat (some don't even run) with cash not register it and will anchor it as a weekend base in an out of the way slough. If it sinks their is no paper trail for the authorities to fine them.

Good luck justason, I work in the healthcare industry and like another member stated, some of the rules we do business by are set by the federal government. As such we have no room to negotiate them so all we can do when a member or a vendor complains is force the rule on them, take it or leave it, but everyone in the industry is subject to the same rules so there isn't much of a choice to begin with.

 

[Ronnie]

@Ronnie I thought you'd solved that whole issue with the grass crete? What was the ticket for?

The ticket is for parking on the grass Crete for an extended period of time. The grass Crete is only meant to be used as vehicle access to the side yard not a storage area. In the past I've gotten warnings to move it in 10 days or be ticketed, this time I just got a ticket along with a note sayin move it in 10 days or get another ticket. So I've either used up all my warnings or the same neighbor is pulling the warnings off of the boat before I see them. I don't know if I will pay or fight yet, it all going to come down to how much time it will take to fight it like many other people I have little spare time to begin with.

. I do know that I'm not planning on moving the boat until day 9 because the way I see it if I pay the fine I've basically paid the city rent to keep the boat in that spot on my property for ten days ($15 a day, thinking about putting a sign on it that says, "F you anonymous neighbor, it only costs me $15 a day to keep my boat right here so I can afford to leave it here all season long, enjoy the view" but I probably won't as it could just bring me more bills/fines in the mail).

 

[Julian]

@Ronnie that is an interesting idea! I wonder if they've got that eventuality covered in their regulations (repeat offenders get escalating fines). If not, an offsite storage does cost you money, I'd be reading up on the rules and mooning the neighbors!

 

[davel501]

I wonder if you could file a FOIA request to get the person's name because it is not a criminal matter. My brother has a neighbor that walks the neighborhood daily, looking for infractions. All of the neighbors have gotten beefed to the HOA by them and ALL of the neighbors are watching those dbs like a hawk to see if they even leave their garbage can out too long.

I live out in the sticks where we settle things by talking to each other. My neighbor got tired of looking at my boat in the driveway so he offered me a spot in a parking area that he has. When he offered my answer was "Sorry, man. I'll move it over there today." I sincerely worry that they may some day move.

 

[Ronnie]

@dave501, I asked my Criminal Attorney (who also happens to be an Assistant DA and law school classmate about the FOIA when all this started over a year ago. His response, no the FOIA won't help me in this situation, without guarantees of anonymity no one would report anyone else for fear of retaliation which would undermine the system and the "spirit of the law". I also asked if he could find out through his job, nada, he'd have to make and justify a request to see those records. Way of subject here and I don't mean to hijack the thread but changing laws is a bitch. I may be more successful offering to pay a fee to the city to park my boat out front. I've met the traffic cop, he doesn't want to give me warnings or tickets but he is forced to since the complaint is formal and if he doesn't the complainant simply makes another call to complain about the traffic cop.