Steer by Wire?

[ScramJet]

This would be a MASSIVE advantage of this sort of system! Those that buy for fishing struggle with the fact that these boats require constant input to track a straight line, and are prone to drivers over correcting and going serpentine all the time. A system that held a course automatically would eliminate that complaint entirely! Since the weight/force required isn't much, I would think the servo side of this wouldn't require major motors. The real challenge would be in the software that would handle the turning lag and not turn you into a computerized serpentine driver! LOL

>> ... fact that these boats require constant input to track a straight line, and are prone to drivers over correcting and going serpentine all the time. A system that held a course automatically would eliminate that complaint entirely!

That's what I'm thinking. And with the degree of GPS control available today, why not? Wouldn't these capabilities dramatically enhance the attractiveness of jet boats to those who would like to jump in but are worried about some of these control-related concerns? And even more so when you consider the many great core features of jet boats (safety, shallow draft, performance, amazing interior space, passenger capacity, etc.).

>> The real challenge would be in the software that would handle the turning lag and not turn you into a computerized serpentine driver!

Ha - makes me dizzy!

I really do think it could be done but that, in a 'priority list' of new-features-to-offer-on-its jet boats, it isn't rated by Yamaha or other vendors as feasible-at-the-right-price-point, at least not yet.

Might those ROI considerations change over time? Might some entrepreneur (Hello Will Owen or Jeff!) or an interested SW engineer - take the plunge and do some research? Hope springs eternal...

 

[the MfM]

I posted these pics a while ago.

But for jet thrusters it seems like a flexible hose attached to the reverse bucket(s) and run through the boat, a few fast acting solenoid valves, a couple three way switches and some nozzles and you’d be almost there.

 

[ScramJet]

I think part of the reason no one has done this on a jet is because the total distance from full port to full starboard is significantly less than most boats. It sure would be cool if you could control each gate independently - including trim up and down!

As mentioned, I'm wondering if there is much difference between the spacing of thrust points on a jet boat vs. those on say an Optimus 360 system with two, three, or even four Yamaha outboards.

This video (

) is three years old, but it makes some really good points - and shows the individually articulated units "pivoting at will" on the transom.

Consider his closing comment: That's my question!

 

[Julian]

Consider his closing comment: That's my question!

At $17,995, I think you should run out and get them to install it on your boat tomorrow! Why Wait???? Tell them there is a whole new market they could open up! The number one selling boat in its class needs this!

 

[ScramJet]

I posted these pics a while ago.

But for jet thrusters it seems like a flexible hose attached to the reverse bucket(s) and run through the boat, a few fast acting solenoid valves, a couple three way switches and some nozzles and you’d be almost there.


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Love the out-of-the-box thinking. And the "no bitching" reward for doing it? Priceless!

Now, how do we get that hose from the reverse bucket to work out in practice - when most of the time the bucket is not over the nozzle? (Hmm, but when that thruster is in reverse, the bucket would be in position).

Similar to your "Jet Thruster Combi," above (and no matter what the actual implementation might be), a way to siphon-off some of the main thruster output would be needed, when required, and (via your "fast-acting solenoid valves") a means to divert flow to more useful locations / directions on the boat. We also would need to not lose sight of all the follow-on integration issues: more thrust points = more valves, more solenoids, more other HW - and more SW development + more computing power to bring it all together.

All possible, though I must say that - from an "elegance" point of view I'd still like to see it done by the main thrusters alone: use just what's already there (in terms of propulsion sources) to minimize the complexity and possible points of failure. This is what Axius, Optimus 360, etc. do: no separate bow or stern thrusters.

I'm just kind of thinking out loud here as I consider your points. This discussion is very stimulating (IMHO): lots of possible implementations!

 

[ScramJet]

At $17,995, I think you should run out and get them to install it on your boat tomorrow! Why Wait???? Tell them there is a whole new market they could open up! The number one selling boat in its class needs this!

>> .... the number one selling boat in its class needs this!

That's what I say! Now, as to the $17,995... Um... Gotta get that down.

Oh wait: mass production. Put it on every boat! Now THAT'S a differentiator.

I can dream... (looking thru binoculars to the future...).

 

[the MfM]

Love the out-of-the-box thinking. And the "no bitching" reward for doing it? Priceless!

Now, how do we get that hose from the reverse bucket to work out in practice - when most of the time the bucket is not over the nozzle? (Hmm, but when that thruster is in reverse, the bucket would be in position).

Similar to your "Jet Thruster Combi," above (and no matter what the actual implementation might be), a way to siphon-off some of the main thruster output would be needed, when required, and (via your "fast-acting solenoid valves") a means to divert flow to more useful locations / directions on the boat. We also would need to not lose sight of all the follow-on integration issues: more thrust points = more valves, more solenoids, more other HW - and more SW development + more computing power to bring it all together.

All possible, though I must say that - from an "elegance" point of view I'd still like to see it done by the main thrusters alone: use just what's already there (in terms of propulsion sources) to minimize the complexity and possible points of failure. This is what Axius, Optimus 360, etc. do: no separate bow or stern thrusters.

I'm just kind of thinking out loud here as I consider your points. This discussion is very stimulating (I think): lots of possible implementations!

It would be cool if Yamaha added joystick control or at least ther RiDE system. It seems OEM is the only way joystick control would be remotely financially possible

The no bitch enhancement could be done without software/computer control. Just need a few relays and switches. I’m thinking four normally closed valves for the four thrusters. And one normally open (above the waterline) to shunt the flow when the thrusters are all closed. One engine would provide foward and reverse the other would be in neutral and be supplying the thrusters... just need someone to drill a hole in their reverse gate attach a hose and do some experimenting to see how much thrust is generated.

 

[the MfM]

If someone wants gps steering for fishing then why not a min Kota with I Pilot?

Use the jets for propulsion and the ipilot for steering /course correction.

 

[sethman919]

I've been thinking about this for a while. i was thinking just bow thrusters using a bi-directional ballast pump. suck water from one side and spit it out the other. reverse the polarity and go the other way. wouldnt be fast but might work. rocker switch on the throttle to control the direction.

 

[SamCF]

The RiDE conversion can be done easily. A drill and tap, and a few factory Yamaha parts is all you need.

 

[buckbuck]

Concerning @the MfM 's contribution, could you not place another hood similar to the reverse bucket that would pivot on the same bolts? When you need the thrusters just pull a handle and drop them into the stream?

 

[ScramJet]

It would be cool if Yamaha added joystick control or at least ther RiDE system. It seems OEM is the only way joystick control would be remotely financially possible

The no bitch enhancement could be done without software/computer control. Just need a few relays and switches. I’m thinking four normally closed valves for the four thrusters. And one normally open (above the waterline) to shunt the flow when the thrusters are all closed. One engine would provide foward and reverse the other would be in neutral and be supplying the thrusters... just need someone to drill a hole in their reverse gate attach a hose and do some experimenting to see how much thrust is generated.

All we need is a willing guinea pig, a detailed plan, and a boat to try it on... And also add in BuckBuck's idea?

We need a test boat.

 

[ScramJet]

The RiDE conversion can be done easily. A drill and tap, and a few factory Yamaha parts is all you need.

If it's that straightforward, has anyone tried this?

The videos of RiDE's quick decel are impressive (along with its other handling plusses and intuitive interface).

 

[SamCF]

I added trim as well, but just the bucket would be easy. Skip to the end to see the boat maneuver.

 

[ScramJet]

If someone wants gps steering for fishing then why not a min Kota with I Pilot?

Use the jets for propulsion and the ipilot for steering /course correction.

Had never seen this before. Does it allow maintenance of heading?

I'm not a fisherman, but I'd think that would be a plus if the fish were striking off one quarter of the boat - to minimize lines getting tangled when there are multiple lines in the water...

From what I read, some of the latest enhancements to the Axius / Optimus 360 joystick systems include that feature...

 

[the MfM]

Had never seen this before. Does it allow maintenance of heading?

I'm not a fisherman, but I'd think that would be a plus if the fish were striking off one quarter of the boat - to minimize lines getting tangled when there are multiple lines in the water...

From what I read, some of the latest enhancements to the Axius / Optimus 360 joystick systems include that feature...

Yes you can maintain a course with it. Or you can have it record your favorite loop around the lake and then it will continually steer you around the lake. You can even tie it into a depth finder and have it follow an underwater contour.

 

[ScramJet]

I added trim as well, but just the bucket would be easy. Skip to the end to see the boat maneuver.

Nice video. That's some really clever engineering. I can see you're not afraid to make mods - lots going on back there with reverse bucket, trim actuator, etc.

Do you have any concerns regarding long-term wear when offsetting the steering linkage to the side (instead of the factory positioning over the center)?

As you mention, also not sure if this position would work with twin-engine configs...

Would love to hear more as you continue to use (and further tweak / modify?) your setup.

 

[ScramJet]

Yes you can maintain a course with it. Or you can have it record your favorite loop around the lake and then it will continually steer you around the lake. You can even tie it into a depth finder and have it follow an underwater contour.

Finally looked at the Minnkota i-Pilot video. Definitely functional, and probably very cost-effective for the purpose. And, as you mentioned, it does hold position (via GPS) and heading.

I'm still not crazy about having external appendages hanging off the boat, so I continue to hope for a more 'Axius- / Optimus 360-type' configuration that uses only the two propulsion sources already on a twin-engine YJB.

Of course it's easy for me to say that: meantime, and until Yamaha or some other third-party comes up with such a system, it's just a wish and a hope - while these solutions are here now.