Tuning a TR1 - Riva Tuner

[Corsair21111]

I’m stuck with my AR220 for quite some time due to my current financial commitments with my kids schooling. Both of my girls currently go to private school and college for my oldest is right around the corner. I’ve got 9 more years of putting money towards their education, which imo is much more important then upgrading our boat. Other then finding a pair of used jet skis with the 1.8’s, refreshing them and swapping them into my AR these cams are really my only option. In hind sight, I wish I had saved up more and bought a 222S instead or even a used AR240. What’s done is done.

I have a lot of experience with using aftermarket efi systems in the automotive world. Mega Squirt, Haltec, and Holley. The Holley and Haltec systems could easily be mated up to a TR-1 if going full stand alone is required. Ideally, staying with the factory ecu would be best assuming the fuel tables and timing can be adjusted. With today’s technology, and seeing that Riva has a tune for it I’m pretty optimistic that the factory ecu can be manipulated to fit the needs of the more aggressive camshafts.

I haven’t had the chance to dissect the OEM exhaust manifold to see if putting an 02 sensor in it is feasible. I’m sure that with access to the right equipment that hurdle can be overcome.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I’m stuck with my AR220 for quite some time due to my current financial commitments with my kids schooling. Both of my girls currently go to private school and college for my oldest is right around the corner. I’ve got 9 more years of putting money towards their education, which imo is much more important then upgrading our boat. Other then finding a pair of used jet skis with the 1.8’s, refreshing them and swapping them into my AR these cams are really my only option. In hind sight, I wish I had saved up more and bought a 222S instead or even a used AR240. What’s done is done.

I have a lot of experience with using aftermarket efi systems in the automotive world. Mega Squirt, Haltec, and Holley. The Holley and Haltec systems could easily be mated up to a TR-1 if going full stand alone is required. Ideally, staying with the factory ecu would be best assuming the fuel tables and timing can be adjusted. With today’s technology, and seeing that Riva has a tune for it I’m pretty optimistic that the factory ecu can be manipulated to fit the needs of the more aggressive camshafts.

I haven’t had the chance to dissect the OEM exhaust manifold to see if putting an 02 sensor in it is feasible. I’m sure that with access to the right equipment that hurdle can be overcome.

Here’s a couple of pics of the exhaust system.. that little round boss in the lower collector looks promising, the cut away pic shows the challenge of getting the 02 sensor into dry exhaust. The thing that looks like a freeze plug is where they drain the sand out after casting.







I’m thinking RIVA has the solution for adding more fuel, the auto tune part of the equation is what is tough as the other options out there are vehicle specific. So it’ll probably be a couple of back and forth‘s to get the fuel dialed in to the best all around compromise. My friend just picked up a dyno jet power commander V for his RZR and he will be able to set that up as an auto tune or closed loop fuel system. You know they used an auto tune of sorts when then built these things, I guess there are reasons they don’t come with that set up.

I totally get the financial situation… in reality I think what you and I want is to just get the most out of these engines without sacrificing reliability. In my situation, I feel like I’m so close a lot of times, I just need a bit more power. When I was a 1250’ with my high altitude impellers on a 45* morning my boat was ripping, I got up to 41.3 on the gps, but the proof was in how little speed it would scrub off when I threw it into a turn.

In your situation, getting a set of impellers and having them tweaked slightly to give you a few more rpms may be what works well for you without doing much else for the time being. Perhaps putting a tad more fuel into the equation may help as well.

I’m sure we will get this sorted and make our engines a bit perkier.

 

[Corsair21111]

There’s definitely a way to put some sort of sleeve in there to allow it O2 sensor to pass through the water jacket.

I’m also surprised that there hasn’t been more interest in modifying this platform prior to this.To my knowledge the TR-1 has been around since 2016. I can’t imagine we are the first ones that want more power and are willing to put in the research to get it. I feel there’s a market here. These motors are used in so many applications that it seems to me if a cam shaft upgrade kit was put out to market at a reasonable price point (maybe $1000 per set x2 and another $1500-$2000 for the tune, $3500-4000 all in to gain 60hp at sea level on twin applications) people would buy it. I know I would.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

There’s definitely a way to put some sort of sleeve in there to allow it O2 sensor to pass through the water jacket.

I’m also surprised that there hasn’t been more interest in modifying this platform prior to this.To my knowledge the TR-1 has been around since 2016. I can’t imagine we are the first ones that want more power and are willing to put in the research to get it. I feel there’s a market here. These motors are used in so many applications that it seems to me if a cam shaft upgrade kit was put out to market at a reasonable price point (maybe $1000 per set x2 and another $1500-$2000 for the tune, $3500-4000 all in to gain 60hp at sea level on twin applications) people would buy it. I know I would.

I got the used exhaust manifold yesterday and that casting boss does bridge across the water jacket.. will have to see what will need to be done to get an 02 sensor in there.

I will echo your point about being surprised that no one has really put together a “package” for the TR-1 engines. Brian Crower has some packages for the 998 cc Genesis engine as well as the 1049cc Viper engine .

As I think I mentioned before, there are a couple of outfits that have done work with the TR-1 engines, mainly RIVA which uses an impeller with less pitch, a tune that adds fuel and increases the rev limiter to 8400 rpm from 8000 to be able to move more air through the engine, and of course their Ribbon delete kit that is supposed to let more air through. I’m going to measure with the restriction in the intake with an inches of water gauge that measures to 1/100th of an inch, in stock form, without a paper element, with the RIVA air filter, and after the ribbon is removed I’ll repeat the measurements to see just what difference removing the ribbon has on vacuum.

I’ve checked with other companies that have made systems for the land variant of the three cylinder engines which definitely bring up the hp / torque, but those systems are vehicle dependent. For example, the YXZ variant in the side by side has three separate electronic throttle valves for the intakes, once for each cylinder, instead of one for the TR-1, that particular after market system allows tuning on each cylinder. Needless to say, that system will not work on the TR-1. That system is made by dyno jet, and I believe that systems has you install an 02 sensor and uses an auto tune type of tuner that will keep the AFR’s where you want them on the fly, just like your car does since you are basically making the YXZ into a closed loop system.

So this project I have going will allow the TR-1 engine to flow more air at all rpms to increase hp and torque across the board increasing by volumetric efficiency. This is the harder way, cams and such, to make power rather than just spinning the engine faster to gain a tiny bit of speed, 1-2 mph, which puts a lot more wear on the engine. I’ll document all of this stuff in a separate thread once I get going on it.

 

[TeenGee]

I want less HP and speed.





Said
NO
ONE
EVER!

 

[TeenGee]

This is a picture where the exhaust exits the hull. The circled part looks like it would restrict the exhaust flow.
What purpose does this part serve?
Could it be removed?
Would removing it reduce the exhaust back pressure and improve volumetric efficiency?

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

This is a picture where the exhaust exits the hull. The circled part looks like it would restrict the exhaust flow.
What purpose does this part serve?
Could it be removed?
Would removing it reduce the exhaust back pressure and improve volumetric efficiency?

I think that baffle is necessary to keep excess water from getting back up into the exhaust system.. I doubt it provides any meaningful back pressure.

 

[Neutron]

This is a picture where the exhaust exits the hull. The circled part looks like it would restrict the exhaust flow.
What purpose does this part serve?
Could it be removed?
Would removing it reduce the exhaust back pressure and improve volumetric efficiency?

It also is to keep debris from entering when engine is off

 

[Corsair21111]

I got the used exhaust manifold yesterday and that casting boss does bridge across the water jacket.. will have to see what will need to be done to get an 02 sensor in there.

I will echo your point about being surprised that no one has really put together a “package” for the TR-1 engines. Brian Crower has some packages for the 998 cc Genesis engine as well as the 1049cc Viper engine .

As I think I mentioned before, there are a couple of outfits that have done work with the TR-1 engines, mainly RIVA which uses an impeller with less pitch, a tune that adds fuel and increases the rev limiter to 8400 rpm from 8000 to be able to move more air through the engine, and of course their Ribbon delete kit that is supposed to let more air through. I’m going to measure with the restriction in the intake with an inches of water gauge that measures to 1/100th of an inch, in stock form, without a paper element, with the RIVA air filter, and after the ribbon is removed I’ll repeat the measurements to see just what difference removing the ribbon has on vacuum.

I’ve checked with other companies that have made systems for the land variant of the three cylinder engines which definitely bring up the hp / torque, but those systems are vehicle dependent. For example, the YXZ variant in the side by side has three separate electronic throttle valves for the intakes, once for each cylinder, instead of one for the TR-1, that particular after market system allows tuning on each cylinder. Needless to say, that system will not work on the TR-1. That system is made by dyno jet, and I believe that systems has you install an 02 sensor and uses an auto tune type of tuner that will keep the AFR’s where you want them on the fly, just like your car does since you are basically making the YXZ into a closed loop system.

So this project I have going will allow the TR-1 engine to flow more air at all rpms to increase hp and torque across the board increasing by volumetric efficiency. This is the harder way, cams and such, to make power rather than just spinning the engine faster to gain a tiny bit of speed, 1-2 mph, which puts a lot more wear on the engine. I’ll document all of this stuff in a separate thread once I get going on it.

Today while searching for a used exhaust manifold to experiment on I realized that somewhere around 2021 Yamaha changed the design a bit on these units. It appears that 21’-22’ SX/AR210/FSH 210 snd 23’ and up SX/AR220/FSH220’s use

p/n 6JS-14711-00-00

for their exhaust manifolds. The three into one portion of the casting is quite different from the previous version. It is a single piece casting rather then the two piece “upper/lower” design like the previous version.

The previous version, like the one shown in the your post is

p/n 6EY-14711-00-00 and 6EY-14721-00-00

both versions use the same “tail pipe” section

p/n 6EY-14784-00-00

Now the question is, does one version flow better then the other? Another interesting piece of information is that the newer version is significantly less expensive. Quoting prices from Partzilla.com the new version runs approximately $405 for the manifold and tail pipe vs. $640 for the three piece previous version that includes the upper manifold, lower 90 degree elbow and tail pipe.

Additionally, I’ve been slowly gathering some info from a few YXZ owners on their experience with using the OEM viper camshafts. So far it’s all been positive feedback. I’ve also reached out to a few people that I’ve come across on YouTube that have swapped viper cams into SuperJets and EX sports to see what their take is. No responses yet but as soon as I get some feedback I’ll share it here.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

That’s awesome

Today while searching for a used exhaust manifold to experiment on I realized that somewhere around 2021 Yamaha changed the design a bit on these units. It appears that 21’-22’ SX/AR210/FSH 210 snd 23’ and up SX/AR220/FSH220’s use

p/n 6JS-14711-00-00

for their exhaust manifolds. The three into one portion of the casting is quite different from the previous version. It is a single piece casting rather then the two piece “upper/lower” design like the previous version.

The previous version, like the one shown in the your post is

p/n 6EY-14711-00-00 and 6EY-14721-00-00

both versions use the same “tail pipe” section

p/n 6EY-14784-00-00

Now the question is, does one version flow better then the other? Another interesting piece of information is that the newer version is significantly less expensive. Quoting prices from Partzilla.com the new version runs approximately $405 for the manifold and tail pipe vs. $640 for the three piece previous version that includes the upper manifold, lower 90 degree elbow and tail pipe.

Additionally, I’ve been slowly gathering some info from a few YXZ owners on their experience with using the OEM viper camshafts. So far it’s all been positive feedback. I’ve also reached out to a few people that I’ve come across on YouTube that have swapped viper cams into SuperJets and EX sports to see what their take is. No responses yet but as soon as I get some feedback I’ll share it here.

That’s awesome work ! Can you ask about the idle quality and are those cams just straight drop ins?

Thanks!

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

A little more info….

CAN'T WAIT TO RIDE THE YAMAHA VIPER! - Supertrax Online

It's been a long time since we've had a non-turbo Yamaha PR unit. Kinda makes sense because Yamaha makes a lot of turbo Sidewinder variants and not so many

www.supertraxmag.com

@biffdotorg

 

[biffdotorg]

A little more info….

CAN'T WAIT TO RIDE THE YAMAHA VIPER! - Supertrax Online

It's been a long time since we've had a non-turbo Yamaha PR unit. Kinda makes sense because Yamaha makes a lot of turbo Sidewinder variants and not so many

www.supertraxmag.com

@biffdotorg

Why would Mark Lester write this article in 2022? It makes no sense. They have been riding and reviewing the viper since it's release in the spring of 2013 as a 2014 model. I own a 2014 model and it is modded about as much as you can get with bolt on mods (minus turbo) Yes there have been refinments annually, as Yamaha does with all products, but it is literally the same sled to this day.

The info is slightly off, sort of like the info in the beginning of this thread. It is not a variant of the Sidewinder, and it is not the same as the 1000 Wolverine engine. We asked this of Yamaha upon release of the Viper, YXZ and then Turbo Sidewinder. Although they share components, size and similarities. Yamaha will deny it, even though we can see them.

The Viper and always has been the Triple cylinder 1049cc engine. It's closest comparison is the turbo 998 in the Sidewinder, also a triple. The wolverine and wolverine Rmax is an inline twin. The YXZ is actually the NA version of the Sidewinder 998 triple. Pretty much the same engine, and we drilled Yamaha about this upon it's release and shown at Haydays.

Yamaha is smart in that they use very common technology across platforms and will not release an engine that cannot be used cross platform. To their detriment, they have been very successful at it.

Thus the 998t is used by Yamaha and Arctic cat/textron in Sleds and 998 in SXS. The 1049 in sleds by both as well. The marine engines are strictly Yamaha, but used in Boats and Waverunner lines. The TR1 is the 1052 triple most similar to the 1049 triple. If they share components, it may be very few and upgrades may or may not be able to be shared.

Yes, they do share common components, but the similarities end between lines. Just like the 4 cylinder engine in my Yamaha Apex snowmobile is a derivative of the Yamaha R1 motorcycle engine. Tuned and cooled differently in both platforms.

2014 Viper LTX below, Cobra track, Woody's Gold digger studs, C&A Pro Skis, Woody's Doole Carbides, Ulmer Stage Three Clutching, Power Commander 5, HID Headlights, Garmin Nuvi GPS, HyGear Axys Shocks all the way around. It's a trail beast, but my Apex will blow it off the lake! (smile)

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Why would Mark Lester write this article in 2022? It makes no sense. They have been riding and reviewing the viper since it's release in the spring of 2013 as a 2014 model. I own a 2014 model and it is modded about as much as you can get with bolt on mods (minus turbo) Yes there have been refinments annually, as Yamaha does with all products, but it is literally the same sled to this day.

The info is slightly off, sort of like the info in the beginning of this thread. It is not a variant of the Sidewinder, and it is not the same as the 1000 Wolverine engine. We asked this of Yamaha upon release of the Viper, YXZ and then Turbo Sidewinder. Although they share components, size and similarities. Yamaha will deny it, even though we can see them.

The Viper and always has been the Triple cylinder 1049cc engine. It's closest comparison is the turbo 998 in the Sidewinder, also a triple. The wolverine and wolverine Rmax is an inline twin. The YXZ is actually the NA version of the Sidewinder 998 triple. Pretty much the same engine, and we drilled Yamaha about this upon it's release and shown at Haydays.

Yamaha is smart in that they use very common technology across platforms and will not release an engine that cannot be used cross platform. To their detriment, they have been very successful at it.

Thus the 998t is used by Yamaha and Arctic cat/textron in Sleds and 998 in SXS. The 1049 in sleds by both as well. The marine engines are strictly Yamaha, but used in Boats and Waverunner lines. The TR1 is the 1052 triple most similar to the 1049 triple. If they share components, it may be very few and upgrades may or may not be able to be shared.

Yes, they do share common components, but the similarities end between lines. Just like the 4 cylinder engine in my Yamaha Apex snowmobile is a derivative of the Yamaha R1 motorcycle engine. Tuned and cooled differently in both platforms.

2014 Viper LTX below, Cobra track, Woody's Gold digger studs, C&A Pro Skis, Woody's Doole Carbides, Ulmer Stage Three Clutching, Power Commander 5, HID Headlights, Garmin Nuvi GPS, HyGear Axys Shocks all the way around. It's a trail beast, but my Apex will blow it off the lake! (smile)

View attachment 214785

@biffdotorg I went and checked my shop manual and it shows the TR-1 engines as being 1049 CC’s. I think I saw somewhere once the TR-1 as being a 1052 though.

Those are some really trick looking sleds!

 

[biffdotorg]

I have to correct myself on this last post. I had to double check the specs as I was getting mixed information. The prior MR1 4 cylinder was 1052cc and the newer triple TR1 is the 1049. And after digging through parts fiche it does share most of their components.

There is possibility to do some tuning on this thing. Along with that, comes all the driveline things that are needed to make it utilize it.

In my Viper, the Power Commander allows for the custom tune on the engine squeezing every bit of horsepower out of it. To do this, there is an open airbox mod to get more air in. The injectors were pushed to their max for pushing more fuel. The exhaust was changed out to breathe as well.

To be honest, that was the first thing I changed back to stock, as it was just too loud. Once it was creating more power, three stages of clutching were adding. This changed the weights (1), gearing (2) and spring (3) Thus stage 3. And we had to put the power to the ground, which included bigger paddles and enough studs to shred ice for miles.

What this means for the boat owner, is the need to upgrade the pump or in this case the impellers to handle more HP. If using at altitude, like this owner, it may be just to handle the hp the motor would have gotten at sea level.

There is a reason the 195/255/275 have a bigger diameter pump. They had to get rid of the cavitation that the 192 experienced, and it needed to push more water that the SVHO engine was capable of.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I have to correct myself on this last post. I had to double check the specs as I was getting mixed information. The prior MR1 4 cylinder was 1052cc and the newer triple TR1 is the 1049. And after digging through parts fiche it does share most of their components.

There is possibility to do some tuning on this thing. Along with that, comes all the driveline things that are needed to make it utilize it.

In my Viper, the Power Commander allows for the custom tune on the engine squeezing every bit of horsepower out of it. To do this, there is an open airbox mod to get more air in. The injectors were pushed to their max for pushing more fuel. The exhaust was changed out to breathe as well.

To be honest, that was the first thing I changed back to stock, as it was just too loud. Once it was creating more power, three stages of clutching were adding. This changed the weights (1), gearing (2) and spring (3) Thus stage 3. And we had to put the power to the ground, which included bigger paddles and enough studs to shred ice for miles.

What this means for the boat owner, is the need to upgrade the pump or in this case the impellers to handle more HP. If using at altitude, like this owner, it may be just to handle the hp the motor would have gotten at sea level.

There is a reason the 195/255/275 have a bigger diameter pump. They had to get rid of the cavitation that the 192 experienced, and it needed to push more water that the SVHO engine was capable of.

Again! Great info! The injector capacity is something my friend with 1000 RZR is coming up against in that project so he will have to upgrade his injectors.

The pump on the normally aspirated 1.8L engined boats and the TR-1 engine boats are the same 155 MM pumps, I checked the wear rings between a 1.8L boat and a TR-1 boat, they are the same, but different impellers.

Being able to use the stock impellers at my altitude would be grrrrreat! And that is ultimately what I’m after! While I have not run my boat at sea level, I did run it at 750’ when it was new and it pulled the oem impellers very well. The guy in Australia that I’ve communicated with that has the modified TR-1 said he managed the increased rpms with a higher pitched impeller..

 

[biffdotorg]

Again! Great info! The injector capacity is something my friend with 1000 RZR is coming up against in that project so he will have to upgrade his injectors.

The pump on the normally aspirated 1.8L engined boats and the TR-1 engine boats are the same 155 MM pumps, I checked the wear rings between a 1.8L boat and a TR-1 boat, they are the same, but different impellers.

Being able to use the stock impellers at my altitude would be grrrrreat! And that is ultimately what I’m after! While I have not run my boat at sea level, I did run it at 750’ when it was new and it pulled the oem impellers very well. The guy in Australia that I’ve communicated with that has the modified TR-1 said he managed the increased rpms with a higher pitched impeller..

Yup this is what is expected. Just like when we take our sleds to altitude. We either re-clutch for the loss in HP, or you put the hp back into it with tuning and turbo.

For you, more hp, stock impellers, less hp, different impellers. You knew that already.

What I was talking about were the SVHO, or Supercharged and Intercooled Yamaha boats (those ending 5) They literally had issues with the first 1.8ltr with supercharger (192) It needed the intercooler to eliminate heatsoak, but also needed a bigger pump to handle the extra HP and not cavitate. It got by, but there is a reason it was replaced with the 195 quickly.

Yes, your boat and my 242 with 1.8's is the same as far as the pumps. The SVHO models have different pumps. We have 155mm, the SVHO have 160mm pumps.

I was told the new 1.9ltr 2024 boats have a 4 blade impeller, but the specs on the yamaha site are saying 155mm pump with 3 blade impeller. That was one of the things I thought folks were liking was similar performance at lower RPM's with less noise, but I digress.

It may work just fine, as mentioned, if your tuning gets you back to low altitude hp, then stock driveline is fine. You will know when you get out and you do or do not cavitate and you get sea level performance.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

One of our members was at one of the launches of the 2024 models with the 1.9 L engines and reported the four bladed impellers in the pumps.

That pretty awesome that you can just hook up your tuner and give your sled a “tune up” to make up for altitude hp loss. Only time I’ve seen that is when the top fuel guys are in Colorado and they increase the speed of their super chargers.

 

[biffdotorg]

One of our members was at one of the launches of the 2024 models with the 1.9 L engines and reported the four bladed impellers in the pumps.

That pretty awesome that you can just hook up your tuner and give your sled a “tune up” to make up for altitude hp loss. Only time I’ve seen that is when the top fuel guys are in Colorado and they increase the speed of their super chargers.

I thought that was a big announcement.

Ya, you don't find many of us ever pulling power out once it's there. We can always clutch back to a sea level tune. But we are mostly flatlanders as well. It's why we have not seen too many turbo two stroke trails sleds until the past two model years for Poo and Doo. It's because they were mostly used in Mountain sleds to regain lost horsepower at altitude. And heat soak is a real thing at our altitude. It's why the 2024 doo trail turbo has a methanol tank for injection (from the factory!)

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I thought that was a big announcement.

Ya, you don't find many of us ever pulling power out once it's there. We can always clutch back to a sea level tune. But we are mostly flatlanders as well. It's why we have not seen too many turbo two stroke trails sleds until the past two model years for Poo and Doo. It's because they were mostly used in Mountain sleds to regain lost horsepower at altitude. And heat soak is a real thing at our altitude. It's why the 2024 doo trail turbo has a methanol tank for injection (from the factory!)

Interesting, methanol injection from the factory… Is the Methanol being used to help with detonation? I was just watching a bit on the WWII F4U corsair the other night and that aircraft had what they called “emergency war power” and there was an on board 40 gallon methanol tank for that extra power.

Well, time will tell with how this ”tune up” goes with the TR-1 engines, again, not looking for anything spectacular, just a modest increase to make it not so lethargic at altitude on hot summer days.

 

[biffdotorg]

Interesting, methanol injection from the factory… Is the Methanol being used to help with detonation?

Heat soak. After a long pull, the air intake gets hot. The sled detects this heat and injects the methanol/water blend to cool the intake and maintain the hp on long pulls. Mountain sleds are like sprinters, on and off boost. Us flatland guys will do a 5-10 minute triple digit pull across a lake or 90 miles on rail beds. At that time power would be lost due to heat soak. That's why many of us that run hard run four stroke.

Check this out where it starts, or scroll to the 11:30 min mark for the methanol explanation