Proof (?) that you should winterize in colder climates...?

[0627Devildog]

So, as I was winterizing my boat this past weekend I had an interesting experience.

I have heard some folks argue that the cooling system is self draining and doesn't need to have RV antifreeze run through it (for those of us living where it gets below freezing).

To winterize my boat I use a 5 Gal bucket, FloTec sump pump, and a large catch basin that I had use to mix mortar in at one point.

The catch basin is perfect as it is rectangular in shape and is long enough to catch anything falling out of both the intake and exit of the pump.

Onto the interesting part. . . . . I loaded the 5 gallon bucket with exactly 4 gallons of r RV antiFreeze and inserted the pump.

Started the motor, turned on the pump ran it down to about a half gallon at which point I cut the power to the pump then fogged the engine until it stalled.

The catch basin catches a LOT, but certainly not everything. So imagine my surprise when I took what was in the catch basin and dumped it into the bucket to re-use for the port engine and it overflowed the 5 gallon bucket.

I did the same thing on the port engine and overflowed even more.

This leads me to believe that there was water up in the engines that did not "self drain" by gravity.

Which, if accurate (not sure what else this could be) means that it is absolutely imperative to get antifreeze in there if there is even the slightest risk that you will experience freezing temperatures.

 

[Neutron]

Could the extra water have come from the exhaust?
The water boxes holds a lot and wont drain. Yamaha says to give a few short revs without water flow to blow out

 

[swatski]

This leads me to believe that there was water up in the engines that did not "self drain" by gravity.

There is water in water boxes...
That is not an issue with freezing.
Impossible to get it all out albeit most will drain if you can raise the bow (high enough).

EDIT: what @Neutron said, too.
--

 

[swatski]

So, as I was winterizing my boat this past weekend I had an interesting experience.

I have heard some folks argue that the cooling system is self draining and doesn't need to have RV antifreeze run through it (for those of us living where it gets below freezing).

To winterize my boat I use a 5 Gal bucket, FloTec sump pump, and a large catch basin that I had use to mix mortar in at one point.

The catch basin is perfect as it is rectangular in shape and is long enough to catch anything falling out of both the intake and exit of the pump.

Onto the interesting part. . . . . I loaded the 5 gallon bucket with exactly 4 gallons of r RV antiFreeze and inserted the pump.

Started the motor, turned on the pump ran it down to about a half gallon at which point I cut the power to the pump then fogged the engine until it stalled.

The catch basin catches a LOT, but certainly not everything. So imagine my surprise when I took what was in the catch basin and dumped it into the bucket to re-use for the port engine and it overflowed the 5 gallon bucket.

I did the same thing on the port engine and overflowed even more.

This leads me to believe that there was water up in the engines that did not "self drain" by gravity.

Which, if accurate (not sure what else this could be) means that it is absolutely imperative to get antifreeze in there if there is even the slightest risk that you will experience freezing temperatures.

I have had a Yamaha boat with 1.8 engines for over 5 years, never used a drop of antifreeze. Winters are pretty brutal here.

There is ZERO need to use antifreeze to winterize these boats.

--

 

[0627Devildog]

Could the extra water have come from the exhaust?
The water boxes holds a lot and wont drain. Yamaha says to give a few short revs without water flow to blow out

Quite possible. . . But right after I pulled the boat (2 Days prior to winterization) I was on a relatively steep ramp and revved the engines to "Blow them out". Then I towed it for 2-3 miles, so I was kinda shocked how much more came out.

 

[0627Devildog]

I have had a Yamaha boat with 1.8 engines for over 5 years, never used a drop of antifreeze. Winters are pretty brutal here.

There is ZERO need to use antifreeze to winterize these boats.

--

Maybe, just maybe. . . . This is why your tower attacked you. The boat was mad at you for not properly winterizing her. . . . #justsayin

 

[swatski]

Maybe, just maybe. . . . This is why your tower attacked you. The boat was mad at you for not properly winterizing her. . . . #justsayin

rotfl
That could be, actually... Damn.

--

 

[Bluewater272]

Kind of a long (and often unnecessarily contemptuous argument) around here whether or not you should. Is it required? No. Does it hurt anything? No. For $20 and 20 minutes of my time, I choose to run some through each motor until its dumping pink....then I blow it out anyway. Had to go buy all the stuff to do the shower anyway.



FWIW, I bought my boat after the season, and asked my dealer to prep it for winter as part of the sale. They ran the pink stuff through. Figured I'd keep it going.

 

[Scottintexas]

I think it just proves you had water in your water box, I think you should give yourself some piece of mind and put this to bed by disconnecting the exhaust and then testing your theory,

until then, when members in Kamloops don't antifreeze neither will I

 

[0627Devildog]

So for all the "water in your water box" commenters. . . . . . Does water not freeze just because its in the water box?

 

[RiverRat]

The way I understand it, the water box is round and does not stay full. Plenty of room for expansion when the water does freeze. I think?

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

The box holds a bunch of water but it has plenty of room to expand, Many years ago I used a large wet vacuum hooked to the exhaust exit opening to pull water from the water box .
I also disconnected the hose from the water box and places some heavy plastic between that hose and the box to isolate the water from the engine. This was for storing in warm weather because water evaporates and in a gas form it rises up to the exhaust manifold then it can enter any open exhaust valve and condense inside the engine cylinder, this was my theory for the spark plug ends rusting inside the engine especially number 3 since engines like to stop in the same place, so if that is the most common position that the engine stops and the exhaust valves are open on number 3 you would be getting the most water vapor entering that cylinder.
As for the engine holding water it is not a closed system so water will always drain down hill .

 

[Ancient canoe]

So for all the "water in your water box" commenters. . . . . . Does water not freeze just because its in the water box?

Freezing water is only a problem if there isn't room for expansion.

 

[swatski]

@Cobra Jet Steering LLC post is informative but keep in mind that flushing with anti-freeze does nothing to prevent the damage he is describing!
In fact, antifreeze is mostly ethylene glycol which is not particularly corrosive but it is hygroscopic and will "attract" water - in other words things will never dry. If an older/cheaper formulation is used that contains methanol - that causes all kinds of havoc on plastic and rubber, too. Those are corrosives for aluminum, too.

I generally stay away from that stuff, unless there is no other way.

--

 

[Julian]

Yup.... Water in the water boxes will freeze, but it sits in the bottom and has rounded sides.... No issue. My Wisconsin stored boat never saw anti freeze.... No issues.

 

[mdchachi]

Kind of a long (and often unnecessarily contemptuous argument) around here whether or not you should. Is it required? No. Does it hurt anything? No. For $20 and 20 minutes of my time, I choose to run some through each motor until its dumping pink....then I blow it out anyway. Had to go buy all the stuff to do the shower anyway.


FWIW, I bought my boat after the season, and asked my dealer to prep it for winter as part of the sale. They ran the pink stuff through. Figured I'd keep it going.

Seems like the most relevant point would be what does Yamaha recommend? Surely if it was needed or even recommended they would say so.
And if it's not needed, what is your dealer's justification? Just trying to charge for extra services? Not knowledgeable about Yamahas?

 

[Julian]

what is your dealer's justification? Just trying to charge for extra services? Not knowledgeable about Yamahas

Many dealers are used to doing this on other boats they service and sell, so rather than change their process, they do it to all boats ... Unless they are Yamaha experts and then they don't waste their time.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

The most effective winterization is to move south and drive the boat daily. Just saying!!!

 

[Bluewater272]

Seems like the most relevant point would be what does Yamaha recommend? Surely if it was needed or even recommended they would say so.
And if it's not needed, what is your dealer's justification? Just trying to charge for extra services? Not knowledgeable about Yamahas?

It's a Yamaha dealer (and a fairly well-regarded one at that), pretty sure they are knowledgeable. They didn't charge me anything. *shrug*

Yamaha doesn't officially recommend anything, including blowing out the motors. They also recommend that the shower water tank should simply be drained to half full if stored in freezing conditions, and we've seen damaged showers that weren't winterized.

 

[Julian]

It's a Yamaha dealer (and a fairly well-regarded one at that), pretty sure they are knowledgeable. They didn't charge me anything. *shrug*

Yamaha doesn't officially recommend anything, including blowing out the motors. They also recommend that the shower water tank should simply be drained to half full if stored in freezing conditions, and we've seen damaged showers that weren't winterized.

That is insane.... Showers and ballast tanks and bags should be fully drained for freezing conditions.