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My SeaDoo waverunner engine needs coolant run through it. Not sure if that changes with the engines in their boats. Besides most Yamaha dealers will still sell you a winterization you don't need.
this is true...they sell it to you because you will buy it! Be smart, read the forum, and know before you go! That is why new chap and scarab owners will join up here if they hear about us, because it IS new technology, and as mentioned above, jet boats are jet boats and much of the existing knowledge is here, so we can cross the lines easily. It will improve boating, it will improve Yamaha, it will improve Chappy and Scarab...WELCOME ABOARD!
There is a big difference between a 22' and a 24' boat regardless of brand. This is a great time to consider buying a new jetboat though as Scarab and Chaparral are providing exciting options and Yamaha has just redesigned their 24' boats. I am anxious to see the larger Chaparral and Scarab's once they hit the showrooms. Of course, I also want to see the pricing. Reports from the dealers meeting on the new Yamaha 24' models are also very exciting with what looks like significant upgrades that address many known issues. Like you said though, if a leftover 14' can be had at a great price, that is another great option. Personally, I would also strongly consider the used market. Many of the boats have low hours, have been well cared for and have a significant number of upgrades and extras. Some still have warranty left. This forum will be a great resource regardless what you go with.
I did a couple of pricing exercises and if you compare a similarly equipped VRX 223 to a AR210 it seems like you will pay $10-15K more (about 20%). I guess the real question is if Chaparral is going to discount the boats like they do with their nicer models or hold pretty steady on price similar to their H2O series. I am looking forward to seeing one in person as I am a big fan of Chaparral design, fit and finish, but the lack of a clean-out port would be a real deal breaker for me. I also love the knowledge base of the forum on the Yamaha's. I tend to agree though that they have priced the boat competitively and they should be able to move some.
As someone actively cross-shopping, I'm curious why you compared the VRX 223 line to the AR210. Since the VRX is the upper-trim Vortex, it seems fairer to either compare VRX to one of the 212's, or compare the 210's against the more modest VR series?
As someone actively cross-shopping, I'm curious why you compared the VRX 223 line to the AR210. Since the VRX is the upper-trim Vortex, it seems fairer to either compare VRX to one of the 212's, or compare the 210's against the more modest VR series?
I wasn't real scientific about the quick comparison. Like Williamson46, I viewed the VR vs. VRX as similar to the SX vs. AR with the most significant difference between models being the addition of the tower. I am sure there are a number of reasons that the comparison is not equal such as LOA, engine displacement etc. I did not compare the 212X because it has a ballast system and markets itself more as a wakboarding boat. I didn't think the 212ss was a good comparison because it did not have the tower. The first thing I thought when I built a 223 VRX on the web site was that for $55k, I would be more interested in a 2015 AR240 with the additional length and new features. It also made me curious to see where the 243 VRX would come in on price......maybe $65-$70k? I really want to see these boats though. I am a big Chaparral fan and I am curious to see if they used fit and finish more similar to the 224/244 Sunesta or the H2O series.....or something in between. Good looking boats IMO.
Just checked out the pics of the 223. Looks very nice indeed. Lack of cleanout ports is concerning, though. Definitely like the lines of the hull and the overall interior layout. Looks like they took some bow room and traded it for larger cockpit space, which is a good compromise IMO. Like the choice of three engine packages, too. Of course it's tempting to skip straight to the 2 250s, but really 2 200s should be more than enough. For that matter a pair of 150s seems pretty reasonable considering that I find the 2 110s of my SX210 to be adequate for our use.
Keep in mind Rotax's hp numbers are not the actual hp. By law they are allowed to publish hp within I believe around 20% (can't recall the exact percentage) of actual hp. This is why Yamaha doesn't publish hp, if they were to publish hp they would have to play the same game the other oem's play and they feel it's misleading.
Keep in mind Rotax's hp numbers are not the actual hp. By law they are allowed to publish hp within I believe around 20% (can't recall the exact percentage) of actual hp. This is why Yamaha doesn't publish hp, if they were to publish hp they would have to play the same game the other oem's play and they feel it's misleading.
Yeah, I'd be willing to be the HP is accurate. Pump efficiency seems to have been less on the Sea Doo boats, given that similar sized boats with much higher hp than the Yamahas weren't actually faster. Not sure that issue carries through to these Chaparrals, though. Do we know if they use those same pumps or is it a different design?
Yeah, I'd be willing to be the HP is accurate. Pump efficiency seems to have been less on the Sea Doo boats, given that similar sized boats with much higher hp than the Yamahas weren't actually faster. Not sure that issue carries through to these Chaparrals, though. Do we know if they use those same pumps or is it a different design?
The power pack (engines and jet system) is identical to the Seadoo on all Scarab, Chap, and Glastron boats. Engines have been updated and catalized, but the jet system is identical.
I was checking in on the Chaparral Owner's Forum as I usually do once every week or two and noticed that we have much more talk about the Vortex here than they do. They literally do not mention the jet boats for months at a time. Members are very clear that they don't like them (most members) and they are disappointed that Chaparral got into the business and don't expect them to be in it for very long. They also don't generally like the H2O series boats and often steer people away from them.
One question I have is if the Vortex boats are going to have fixed non-negotiable pricing like the H20 series boats or if they will move on price like they do with all of their other boats?
One question I have is if the Vortex boats are going to have fixed non-negotiable pricing like the H20 series boats or if they will move on price like they do with all of their other boats?
So if you look at the little price tag symbol on their Vortex pages (superimposed over the picture headers), it boasts about their "No hassle, real deal pricing." I think they must be treating them like the H20s.
And I agree with your observations/conclusions on all counts. I look in from time to time hunting for owner reviews, and have noticed the exact same things.
Chap doesn't even have vortex owners manuals posted yet, although I may be strange for enjoying looking at those as part of my research/window shopping.
I really like the vortexes, coming in second in my order of preference:
scarab
chap
yamaha
"screw it and get a prop boat" Monterey 238SS or go all-in on a WorldCat 255DC or something.
So it's a little disappointing to see the vortexes (vortices?) come out of the gate so slowly, and receive such resistance from their existing owners.
Have you ever dealt with C.A.R.B.? I have been dealing with them for over...well, hell, over 25 years.
They are ALL about emissions, not horsepower. They could give a rat's ass about how fast a boat goes, they just don't want it spewing emissions.
They get most of their data directly from the manufacturer. When they are contemplating new restrictions or imposing stricter regulations they will do engine testing. Usually in conjunction with a major manufacturer (s) who donates an engine and parts such as catalytic converters, etc. They do it in a lab, on an engine stand and the engine is hooked up to a water supply. They have to simulate load factors, etc. since there is no prop to create load on the engine. The lab really doesn't simulate real life conditions since the engines need to be run rich to keep cylinder temps down. The production engines run much leaner and they have to calculate all the variables when they approve emissions packages on these engines. They use ISO Standards, NOT SAE, ISO 8178-4 E4* to be exact.
@Williamsone46 was just hi-lighting the games that manufacturers play in their advertising and spec numbers. It's all smoke and mirrors. You want to know how fast a boat goes? Get in it and run it hard.
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