2015 COMPARISON: Yamaha 242 Ltd S versus Chaparral 243 VORTEX VRX

[Bruce]

I want to be clear, we want owners of Chaparral, Glasstream, Scarab, SeaDoo and all other JetBoat manufacturers here. All of the manufacturers do things differently and in ways that they feel are best. Having options is good for all of us. Hopefully every manufacturer will do something better than the others. The more manufacturers that enter the market the more innovation that we will see. All of these boats eliminate props and have a shallow draft. I could see enjoying time on any of them. @Julian, @Murf'n'surf, @OperationROL, @txav8r and I have been discussing ways to expand our non Yamaha membership. We love our Yamaha boats but we also want to operate a forum that is inclusive of all makes.

This thread has had some good debate. Some of which has been too strong or too negative for my liking. I do not like the Scarab 195 vs Yamaha 192 comparison video. There simply has to be a way to market the 195 positively. The first post in this thread is too much like that video.

Most of us come here with a bias toward one brand or another. We will all benefit if we can move beyond those difference and discuss differences without prejudice.

 

[Julian]

Has anyone had over heating problems or had to replace an engine due to salt build up in their motor?

I've read about boats who's thermostats have corroded and stuck....more often in salt water conditions.

No. It uses an antifreeze mixture that doesn't need anything done to it for winter.

How often do you need to change this antifreeze?

All great points and awesome point - counter point....

 

[veedubtek]

I believe the book says every 2 years or 200 hours. This is more in line with the yamaha valve adjust thing though - I've never talked to anyone who's actually done it. After 4-5 years, I'd probably start testing it at the end of every season just to see. My doo is 7 years old now, and I tested it before winter and it was fine. I imagine it's never been replaced, but I've only got 98 hours on her also.

 

[ScarabMike]

I've read about boats who's thermostats have corroded and stuck....more often in salt water conditions.


How often do you need to change this antifreeze?

200 hours BUT it may take some members 3-4 years to put on 200 hours..Me personally i would go 2 years and change it out, and still regularly test it..

 

[PolarXJ]

I've read about boats who's thermostats have corroded and stuck....more often in salt water conditions.


How often do you need to change this antifreeze?

All great points and awesome point - counter point....

My operators manual states every 200 hours or two years.

 

[RiverRat]

We could use some anti-freeze up here in the great white north.

 

[scot71]

We could use some anti-freeze up here in the great white north.

AMEN!

 

[JetBoatPilot]

I lost a motor in a 2003 Yamaha SR230 last year due to a set of clogged cooling jackets which prevented proper flushing and ultimately the salt water ate through the side of the motor. I can tell from the images of the motor after tear down, that the boat was run very shallow and often and it also looked like they had multiple warnings over the years with overheat alerts tripped on the YDS analysis. This boat was a rare example of engine trouble due to salt water exposure. If you maintain your boat properly and don't run it in 12 inches of water you will get years and years out of your Yamaha motors with very little to no mechanical problems.

 

[Brendon]

Corrected a few things.

I had an engine with an open loop cooled engine with 300 hours that I had to have torn down and have the water jackets cleaned out due to salt buildup. I dont believe that closed loop cooling is a con in any aspect...

 

[Rescue3FFMedic]

Since there appeared to be so much interest in this new 243 VORTEX VRX offering from Chaparral, and we could (thanks to new 2015 boat shows) finally get to visit and touchy-feely a VRX Vortex 243, we felt in might be interesting to do a side-side comparison of some of the more interesting differences between the 2 boats. And there are some EXTREME differences that at fist glance are not so obvious, and yet can and will be very important to a new boat owner. I did attempt to to be fair in finding differences. I let the reader decide how we did on this. Here goes:

1. VORTEX: The seating material, stitching and fit/finish is NOT "superior" to that of the Yamahas. Despite what the Chap. brochure and Chap. sales people claim.

2. The VORTEX engines, being super-charged:

A) Eat up a TON MORE space in the motor department, making service FAR more difficult and
B) Require a supercharger REBUILD every 200 hours (TIMES 2 engines !!!!!!) - NOT cheap whatsoever.

3. Chaparral did STUPID things like place the battery switch to where you cannot even get to it in the FAR recess of the motor compartment REAR side.

4. The dual batteries are DIFFICULT work on, as they are on OPPOSITE sides of the VRX ! I have no idea how much difficulty you would experience installing an on-board quality battery charger, like a dual-bank Minn-Kota, would make for an owner, but it AIN'T gonna be easy (on the VORTEX).

5. VORTEX’s lack the Yamaha’s dual throttle controls which is how knowledgeable Yamaha drivers conveniently and safely dock their boats, and more. Chaparral claims they don't require that. However, that is only because they are using the BRP supplied engine AND drive-train, and that's how BRP has always done it.

6. The captain's seat is "ok" but by no means as good as the new Yamaha seats. And the passenger seat basically SUCKS for quality. Look at it and you'll understand. See item # 14 below as well.

7. The "head" compartment is HUGE on the Chaparral, but it's WASTED space for most. I'll give them this: IF you wanted to use this for a porta-potty, or for changing, it IS a LOT larger than the Yamaha area. But it is our opinion, most owners do NOT use that area for those purposes.

And there is no "Drink compartment," like on the new 24 footer Yamahas. Yamaha provides you with a post-side “Entertainment Area” which includes COLD drink storage and serving - AND a lockable glove box !!! Yamaha also provides a wastebasket little holding space and netting.

Keep in mind the Yamaha Entertainment area is far easier to use, and a lot more convenient, than a bow-front cooler area, located underneath a seating area.

8. I have no idea about the noise factor, but no sales person told us how "good" it is on the Chaparrals. It was NOT even mentioned !
This <Noise Factors ...... or "Noise Reduction Improvements"> is unlike the new Yamaha 24 footers for 2015 !!!!

Every Yamaha dealer, sales person, and technical person @ the 2015 ATL boat show COMPLAINED (just kidding) about the new 2015 Yamaha sound reduction system !!!!!!!!!!!!!! - They said it is so GOOD in design and function that, now, you MUST turn down the radio to talk to others while @ wide-open throttle ! ROFL ! Seriously ... they said the new difference is far more than just INCREDIBLE !

9. Interestingly Chaparral states their 243 VRX is for 12 people – but Boattest.com also goes on to state (their words) it’s realistic only for 4 to 7 comfortably.

10. Vortex comes with either a 10-year or “Lifetime” limited hull warranty. I have seen BOTH warranty periods mentioned. HOWEVER: But when was the last time someone made a hull claim with Yamaha for a 232 or 242, which has a 5-year hull warranty ?

11. To get the top end speed they claim (54 MPH), you MUST have the OPTIONAL super-charged ROTAX power plants. SUPERHCARGED = Burns more gas and costs FAR MORE ($$$) maintenance ! And this is EXPENSIVE maintenance. And YOU aren’t gonna rebuild a super charger in an afternoon in your backyard. The superchargers MUST be rebuilt every 100 hours OR you are gonna have some even more expensive items to deal with.

12. VORTEX uses a closed-loop cooling system – PARTICULARLY important in Salt Water usage ! This is a wonderful design feature !@!!

13. Yamaha – The Only true NEUTRAL is engines OFF. SAME with Vortex’s !

14. Flip-up ARM RESTS on the Yamaha’s Captain’s chair – NONE on Vortex !!!! No Captain’s chair for the passenger whatsoever (Vortex) !!!!!!!! And both Yamaha Captain’s Chairs Swivel a complete 360 degrees, and recline !

15. VORTEX has built-in self-draining cooler area in the bow. Not available on the Yamaha. However, see item #7 above (Port-side Entertainment area) !

16. VORTEX holds 52 gallons of fuel onboard – Yamaha holds 50 gallons.

17. Ski Locker – Door is SUBSTANTIALLY larger on the Yamaha – and the compartment extends even further – Far greater “floor” storage on the Yamaha !

18. The Chaparral “Medallion 6.5 inch Display System” is an OPTION !!! The Yamaha comes STANDARD with the CONNEXT 7” System, which is FAR easier to use ! And Yamaha’s is far more intuitive to use !

19. Yamaha ALSO provides a Joystick Control for the CONNEXT 7” Control System. Yamaha also gives you additional push buttons both on the touch-screen display bottom , as well as on the joy-stick control. This makes this system a lot easier to use, and so intuitive it become a JOY to use. Not available on the Chaparral.

Keep 1 thing in mind: The CONNEXT joystick makes making changes to the CONNEXT a TON easier when you are navigating, steering and driving your jet boat. Chaparral forces you to use a touch screen. Far more difficult in real-world use ! Unless you are standing still !

And for Yamaha owners: You have to EXPERIENCE the CONNEXT system in person. It is so much easier to use than the former stupid little "buttons" located below the displays. And this yields benefits you never knew about. Such as being able to vary continuously the cockpit lighting (for dimming), or pushing a button and getting a COMPLETE Yamaha DIAGNOSTIC READOUT, including any fault codes = YDIS !!! This is the SAME read out that used to require you to have a laptop computer, software, and a special cable !

20. The Vortex dash area has a somewhat “cluttered dash” with many extra rocker SWITCHES, even with their 6.5” Medallion Display System. There are NO switches on the Yamaha - just the easy-to-use 7” CONNEXT touch-screen display and joystick system.

21. Vortex comes with a hanging rod in the port console (porta potty compartment). Yamaha – No hanging rod. This feature might be a deal breaker !

HOWEVER: Yamaha places a VERY convenient SHELF in their "port storage area".
And a paper towel holder rod and a toilet paper roll holder also built in. So maybe this is a "push" after all. (LOL !)

22. SOUND SYSTEM – Yamaha makes it VERY clear who makes the Sound System (Polk PA450UM) and who makes the speakers (Polk) and the specific model numbers ! Yamaha uses top-end Polk speakers ! NONE of that information is provided whatsoever anywhere from Chaparral ! The Chaparral head unti is a Polk, however - model # not known at this time. All Chapparal brags about is stainless steel speaker covers. It’s extremely difficult to hear better sounds emanating from a stainless steel speaker cover !

23. VORTEX charges STANDARD an $ 855 “Prep” fee !!!!!! Not a joke. Not removable ! You gotta pay it, and it is listed. Although while mandatory, they interestingly list it as an option. So much for being an “industry leader !”

24. Pricing for comparable boats: You are at $ 66379 for the VORTEX 243. The Yamaha lists @ $ 61499. Or as a stated earlier, a $ 4000 + DIFFERENCE (Increase) for the Chaparral ! (Specifically, an almost $ 4900 INCREASE for the VORTEX ! Close to 5 grand more ! It’ll be $ 5 grand more ( + $ 5000 !!!) when you take the overall increase in SALES TAX into consideration !!!!!!!!!!!!!).

25. I won’t even get nit-picky and talk about little things like using TOP QUALITY materials like Sea-Dek on the swim Platform on the Yamaha ! Or the use of teak-style carpeting !

26. Very nicely done PADDED ARCH TOWER on the VORTEX. Not available on the Yamaha.

27. Integrated “Anchor” light on the Yamaha Tower. Chaparral feels a Go-Pro camera mount is more important. LOL !@

NOTE: IF you have a Go-Pro Camera mounted on the Vortex, you CAN display the camera’s views on the Medallion display !

28. GAS MILEAGE (as computed by Boattest.com !):

@ TOP END: Vortex VRX = 36.9 GPH (7850 RPM).
Yamaha 242 = 23.0 GPH (7500 RPM).

BEST OVERALL MILEAGE: Vortex = 8.8 GPH (25.4 MPH and 5000 RPM).
Yamaha = 9.4 GPH (27.8 MPH & 5500 RPM).

29. Fresh-Water Shower: Standard on both boats.

30. I find this to be EXTREMELY interesting: Chaparral, 1 of the LEADING US pleasure boat manufacturers feels it is NECESSARY and important to their sales to list this item in their sales brochure and website: I cannot fathom how many additional VORTEX’s will be sold because they included this: “Molded-In Footrest - Port and Starboard”. Seriously. They had the audacity to list this. Sadly, Yamaha does not include this important feature.

31. Stainless Steel drink holders: 243 VORTEX = 12. Yamaha 242 = 14 !~

NOTE: Chaparral website lists 10 Drink holders. Brochure lists 12. I went conservative and showed 12 above.

32. CLEAN OUT PORTS VERSUS NOT HAVING THESE: Chaparral claims the design of the BRP system alone precludes the necessity of a clean out port (ports). While many former SeaDoo owners never suffered from sucking up ski ropes or debris, many others have. THUS: This feature, or lack thereof, DOES appear to be a deal breaker for many/most. Times will tell if this is correct, as we watch Chaparral and Scarab owners report on not having this important feature (Clean out ports) on their boats.

33. Bridge Clearance with the Tower:

Vortex = Bridge Clearance with Arch Tower : 7' 3"
Yamaha = Bridge Clearance with Arch Tower : 7' 9"

34. Swim platform storage: Yamaha conveniently locates dual compartments BEHIND the aft “back” cushions. Easy to get to and very convenient to use.

And Yamaha includes a 12V outlet back there.

VORTEX: Requires you to lift up the seat cushions. Not nearly as convenient to use !

35. IF you are a little unstable on your feet, or you have passengers who are so, the 243 VORTEX is far easier to safely enter, securely. The "passage" is wider and not as high as on the 242 Ltd S. This could be important depending on certain situations.

36. INTERESTING NOTE ABOUT PRICING: Until Sunday morning, January 18th, you could "build" your Chaparral boat, with PRICING, on their website. As of 1-18-2015, you MUST go through a dealer now !!!!!!!! All pricing data has been totally eliminated from their website !!!!! All they list now on their website is the "base price" for each Vortex model.
==================================================================
EDIT (Added 1-28-2015): Complete DETAILED test report from Boattest.com:

http://www.boattest.com/boats/boat_video.aspx?ID=3223
==================================================================

So, that's about it. I feel I may have missed a couple of items, but I tried to get all of the important and interesting ones.

Best Wishes for a wonderful 2015 Boating Season for all ! And GO YAMAHA ! (LOL !)

Mikey Lulejian - Lake Oconee, GA

I see a few flaws. However the biggest is fact that mention is not made about the 200 hour Valve Jobs required by Yamaha that are near the same amount as rebuild of 200 hr superchargers on competitor. It is easy to make something look good when both sides are not represented evenly. I LOVE YAMAHA almost anything so don't get me wrong. Just pointing it out.

 

[Julian]

I see a few flaws. However the biggest is fact that mention is not made about the 200 hour Valve Jobs required by Yamaha that are near the same amount as rebuild of 200 hr superchargers on competitor. It is easy to make something look good when both sides are not represented evenly. I LOVE YAMAHA almost anything so don't get me wrong. Just pointing it out.

I've not read the new 1.8L engine maintenance interval chart, but for the MR-1 the 2 year list has:

• Rubber coupling-Inspect
• Engine mount-Inspect
• Air Filter-Replace
• Engine oil-Replace
• Valve Clearance-Inspect, adjust

Not sure I would define that as a required valve job....I THINK (only hear this, not seen the interval requirements on Superchargers) that the supercharger is a required rebuild? I also have not heard of many (there have been a few) people having valve issues that required adjustments on their MR-1s, so usage data here is showing that to be an "inspect" only event. I wonder what the Yamaha supercharged boats have for the 2 year maintenance on the superchargers? My guess is something similar....??? It is the nature of the beast....so somewhat like comparing apples to oranges....

 

[buckbuck]

Over 500 hours on my MR-1 engines and I have not, nor will I, inspect valve clearance until the engines indicate there is a problem.

 

[veedubtek]

Were they solid lifter engines? That seems odd.

 

[buckbuck]

@veedubtek I respect your mechanical abilities. Why does it seem odd?

 

[veedubtek]

@buckbuck , was referring to the "valve adjustment recommendation", not your post

Cars really haven't used solid lifters since the early 80's (there are exceptions). But most mass produced engines since then have all been hydraulic lifter, which eliminates the need for valve adjustments typically. There again, the marine world didn't even really pick up on 4 stroke goodness until the early-mid 2000's, so I guess I shouldn't act surprised if they are solid lifter. On the flip side, if they were solid lifter, I don't think I'd wait until 200 hours to check em! My guess is they are hydraulic, and it's just a preventive check kinda thing, maybe even a profit generator, and it's not really a problem. If I had MR1's, I'd do it just because I like doing that kind of stuff. Not sure I'd recommend doing it to someone else just based on the limited info I've read about these thus far though.

@itsdgm - you've got loads of MR1 experience. Can you shed any light here? Inquiring minds want to know...

 

[itsdgm]

@veedubtek im very mechanically inclined and never afraid to tackle any kind of maintenance/repair. But I'm not formally trained, so I might screw up a bit of terminology here.

But here's what I know to the best of my understanding. The MR-1 engine has 3 intake and 2 exhaust valves per cylinder that are operated by the dual overhead cams. The cams push down on the valves to operate them (there's no separate push rod). Simply put, theres is a "hat" that contacts the cam and a shim under the hat to set the correct clearance.

I've only heard of someone letting a dealer check the valve clearance once over the 8-9 years that I've owned my boat. His dealer told him that the clearances were fine and unfortunately the dealer screwed up an o-ring on a water pipe under the valve cover which led to water getting in the oil. Lesson learned was simple. If it ain't broke, don't try and fix it like @buckbuck was alluding to.

IMHO, the MR-1 was/is the backbone of many Waverunner rental shops. They will put thousands of hours on them and simply change the oil and repair as needed. There's no way they're going to spend the time and effort checking valve clearances.

But this is simply my experiences and understanding of how things work. I'll be tearing down my original engine and swapping out the cracked block within the next month. So it's possible that my understanding will be different after that.

 

[veedubtek]

Perfect explanation, Dennis.

The "hat", is a lifter. If they are using shims, it's just about guaranteed to be a solid lifter. Some engines (like my Thing), have mechanical lash adjusters - I adjust my valves twice a year on that car. Some, like early VW 8v engines, used shims on top of the lifters.

Are you sure the shim is under the lifter? Not questioning you, I've just never seen one setup like that. That would explain/justify a more expensive service. Most of the time, the shim is on top. I've got a tool that loops around the cam and pushes the lifter down so I can swap shims if needed. If the shims were underneath, the camshafts would have to be removed, to remove the lifters, to replace the shims. Not sure why they'd design it like that, if they did.

And while I hate hearing of your misfortunes, I love reading your work. Even if the terminology is incorrect sometimes, I admire your effort, dedication, and willingness to share what you learn on here.

 

[itsdgm]

Perfect explanation, Dennis.

The "hat", is a lifter. If they are using shims, it's just about guaranteed to be a solid lifter. Some engines (like my Thing), have mechanical lash adjusters - I adjust my valves twice a year on that car. Some, like early VW 8v engines, used shims on top of the lifters.

Are you sure the shim is under the lifter? Not questioning you, I've just never seen one setup like that. That would explain/justify a more expensive service. Most of the time, the shim is on top. I've got a tool that loops around the cam and pushes the lifter down so I can swap shims if needed. If the shims were underneath, the camshafts would have to be removed, to remove the lifters, to replace the shims. Not sure why they'd design it like that, if they did.

And while I hate hearing of your misfortunes, I love reading your work. Even if the terminology is incorrect sometimes, I admire your effort, dedication, and willingness to share what you learn on here.

Thanks @veedubtek. The cams do have to come out to adjust. I was reading the manual and looking at YouTube videos on setting clearances. Initially my issue started with a stuck valve so I wanted to make sure my clearances stayed in spec. But my mechanic assured me that the matchine shop would inspect and clean one valve at a time to ensure all parts stayed in the exact same place, keeping clearances the same. If the head had to be replaced, the technique when reassembling was to measure all of the shims and record them. Then assemble the head, cams and timing chain. Then check clearances. Then to adjust clearances, it required removing the timing chain, cams and swapping shims (which I believe are under the lifter) to get the required clearances. Then reassembling and rechecking clearances. Sounded like a royal PITA and would require obtaining a shim kit, or several trips to the dealer to get the correct ones. This was why I was so concerned how the machine shop was going to handle inspecting/cleaning all my valves. The head work went as planned, but my block ended up developing a crack just below one of the head studs which carried into the water jacket on cylinder 3 (which seems to be a weak spot). After several attempts by a local welder (who I've used before for some very difficult welds) proved to be unsuccessful, I swapped the engine out with a newer, similar hour used one to get me through this season. I found a replacement block and plan on rebuilding the original engine here pretty soon.

 

[YamahaForMe]

I don't know much about MR-1 engines, except that they can overheat when you put a shut-off valve in line with the water inlet. However, sport bikes of the 80's, 90's, and early 2K's (until I stopped paying attention) all had mechanical lifters and typically shim under bucket valve lash adjustment. My take on it is that this is how you get a high performance, high reving engine. The Yamahas used to rev to something like 13K or 14K RPM. I would not be surprised if hydraulic lifters had issues at higher engine speeds (just speculating).

My old 1988 suzuki Katana had mechanical lifters with screw type adjusters. Had to do it every 5000 miles or so. The equivalent shim under buckets had quite a bit shorter inspection interval. I did the valves on the Katana twice. None of the 16 were ever out of spec. The first time I didn't get the valve cover back on right and it leaked oil. I broke one of the cam retainers the 2nd time. Wasn't my fault I probably won't be inspecting them on my SX230.

Steve

 

[veedubtek]

100% right. I completely forgot how high the MR1's revved. Hydro lifters don't like that very much.