Hard starting issues brand new ar195 help please!

[FSH 210 Sport]

Hey guys new question separate topic, being new don't know where to post it. I can't find any stations anymore where everything now is 10 % ethonal. How do you overcome that problem. With the new AR195 I must use 91 octane, and I purchased Sta-bil marine which is specifically developed for ethonal laced fuel and marine engines. So any ideas? How do you guys overcome that problem?

You’ve already solved it. Project Farm on you tube did a great test on fuel stabilizers and the Sta-Bil Red had the best results.

Use the sites search engine… there is a plethora of posts on the ethanol issue.

Did you get a set of plugs and install them yet?

 

[drewkaree]

You’
Did you get.

t a set of plugs and install them yet?

Es

 

[nrightaway]

Es

They are on the way. Will let you guys know when I put them in, if it makes a difference.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

They are on the way. Will let you guys know when I put them in, if it makes a difference.

Right on…be sure to gap them to minimum spec before installing them.

Start with the simplest things first, plugs make a big difference with these engines and are the first thing to be changed if the motor is not running/starting correctly.

Please describe in explicit detail how the engines start after four days of not running. For example, when you turn the key on then go to the start position, how long does the engine turn over on the electric starter motor before the engine fires? And then the subsequent attempts. Can you take a video of this and post it on YouTube?

Have you checked the battery connections?
What is the voltage on the battery? Has it been charged fully?
What does the voltage on the connext screen drop to when starting?

If you have not done so already, go through all of the various plugs on the engine and make sure they’re fully seated, same thing with the fuel sender wires and the fuel pump.

 

[nrightaway]

The problem was being under warranty the dealer was supposed to do all of that but they just kept telling me there were no issues, and did nothing. They found out when I was there to pick it back up that it wouldn't start because I made them start it in front of me. They had the boat for a month fixing a fiberglass issue, and basically ignored everything I told them. They did a good job on the fiberglass, but nothing on the starting issue.

 

[nrightaway]

Now I have to take it to Havasu which is a bit closer, to another dealer to try again. It is still a 2 hrs drive though, and a big hassle, plus the starting issue only happens after it sits for a week or so.

 

[Beachbummer]

This is an issue that is very much worth figuring out, but giving up the boat for months to find it is not something I would do. Warranty is worth the paper it's written on. As you saw some dealers are pretty terrible at diagnosing. I would continue to diagnose at home. That trip and your time would just not be worth it for me. Once you id the issue if you need their help maybe then it's worth it, but right now they are causing more aggravation than they are fixing, on my humble opinion.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

This is an issue that is very much worth figuring out, but giving up the boat for months to find it is not something I would do. Warranty is worth the paper it's written on. As you saw some dealers are pretty terrible at diagnosing. I would continue to diagnose at home. That trip and your time would just not be worth it for me. Once you id the issue if you need their help maybe then it's worth it, but right now they are causing more aggravation than they are fixing, on my humble opinion.

But it is very important to have it documented that there has been numerous trips to the dealer for this problem for warranty continuance.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

The problem was being under warranty the dealer was supposed to do all of that but they just kept telling me there were no issues, and did nothing. They found out when I was there to pick it back up that it wouldn't start because I made them start it in front of me. They had the boat for a month fixing a fiberglass issue, and basically ignored everything I told them. They did a good job on the fiberglass, but nothing on the starting issue.

Now I have to take it to Havasu which is a bit closer, to another dealer to try again. It is still a 2 hrs drive though, and a big hassle, plus the starting issue only happens after it sits for a week or so.

Whether they were supposed to check those things or not you need to check this stuff to make sure to your satisfaction it has been done, or keep driving your boat to the dealer who didn’t do it in the first place.

Again, I’d like to know exactly how the starting process is after it sits for “a week or so”, as I just asked above. If it lights quickly then dies, and does this a couple of times that doesn’t seem like an issue to me, especially if when used every other day it starts and runs fine. Do you turn the key on and let the connext boot up, or do you just turn the key from off to start?

What about the battery questions?

Again, before you start hauling this thing all over the place to a new dealer put in a new set of plugs to either eliminate that as a cause or it will remedy the problem.

I went back and re read this whole thread and I saw where @Neutron said this was not an issue, as a fyi, @Neutron is a life long mechanic who now has his own shop where he works on these engines as well as other engines. I get that it’s annoying AF, but let’s look at this, if it has to sit for a week to duplicate the hard start it’s difficult for a mechanic to duplicate the issue, especially if the mechanic can’t just let it sit overnight and have the same problem, it’s going to be sitting at the dealer a loooong time. If the mechanic lets it sit overnight and it starts right up the next day he’s going to think that engine is working good. Neutron went so far as to say these are not like a car, they don’t have cold start with a high idle.

Yes, a mechanic can put a fuel pressure gauge in line and check the fuel pressure, but I doubt that’s going to be the issue because if the engine is starting that means it has fuel, as I said previously, in my experience with power sports equipment the fuel pump doesn’t run until the engine is cranked over and the contacts are made up in the ECU, then the fuel pump will run for a few seconds after the engine dies before shutting off. On my FI dirt bikes I bump the starter after it’s been sitting to get the fuel pump to cycle before I hold the starter button down. There is an internal pressure regulator on these fuel pumps, unwanted pressure is dumped back to the tank, these pumps produce far more pressure and volume than the engine needs, IF there was a pressure or volume problem the engine would not perform at WFO, and I assuming the engine performs just fine while it’s running.

By the way what are the maximum rpms you’re getting?

Have you checked the oil level? Might seem stupid but a too high oil level has to be eliminated.

 

[nrightaway]

Guys I understand, but the boat is brand new, under warranty and has 7 hrs on it, and I explained to the dealer exactly what the problem was. I explained that it would have to sit for at least 4 days to have the problem. I called them 3 times to make sure they understood. They told me they were going to take it to the lake and test it. It was all B/S. I looked it over carefully and there was not 1 toolmark on anything. I don't think they even tried to start it because to them they told me that these boats just don't have those problems. I am frustrated because because they just can't or won't do their jobs, and were basically just denying everything. When I picked the boat up I made them start it up in front of me, it would not start, 2nd try it would not start, 3rd try it fired then died, 4th try it fired then died, 5th try it fired then ran. They were saying this is impossible, scratching there heads, and telling me that they would contact Yamaha and ask them what the problem may be. These are supposed to be certified mechanics, working in a dealership, but they acted like a bunch of dummies running around. Hell the service manager told me that you can run these engines for at least 4 minutes without any water and it would be fine. Tell yamaha that, and see what they say. The whole thing is just not right...

 

[steelhorse454]

It starts right up no problem. But if it sits for 4 days, no go takes 4 cranks at least, with 2 of them starting then stalling. I am just saying, it's a brand new boat under warranty. Just not right.

My 2023 ar195 does the same thing after sitting for days. I consider mine a non-issue as it does start and run just fine.

 

[steelhorse454]

if it is the fuel issue perhaps try turning on the ignition and NOT cranking it for 15 or so seconds so the fuel pump can fill the system

Exactly, you have to turn on the key, let the system boot up, build pressure, then start....

 

[steelhorse454]

Hey guys new question separate topic, being new don't know where to post it. I can't find any stations anymore where everything now is 10 % ethonal. How do you overcome that problem. With the new AR195 I must use 91 octane, and I purchased Sta-bil marine which is specifically developed for ethonal laced fuel and marine engines. So any ideas? How do you guys overcome that problem?

I use " Boostane" additive for my boat. And, I get 93 non-ethanol gas at "Go Gas".

 

[Ibeflyinhigh]

I totally agree with you that the hard starting is ridiculous on a new boat. Unfortunately youre probably going to have to live with it. I have the same issue on both my 2022 svhos and never found a solution. Ive spoke with other owners who have the same problem. It takes 3-5 starts for mine to stay running. I usually do this at home before headed to the launch that way im assured it will start fine at the lake. Its embarrassing when youre launching and it takes 3 or 4 trys and other people are there. I hear comments like that's ridiculous for a boat that new. Ive done new plugs multiple times. Changed to a high flow air filter. Ive tried higher octane fuel. I even tried a Riva racing tune and nothing has improved it. If you ever find a solution please share it on here.

 

[Beachbummer]

Autozone will lend you a fuel pressure gauge. If the key dance does not improve, I would swap fuel inlet hose between engines to see if the issue follows. If it does not, I would suspect a leaky injector and would use the fuel pressure gauge to troubleshoot.

I doubt it's air or spark.

The other thing I would try if it happens again is leaving the throttle open wide on the second attempt and see if it starts on the third... Maybe fuel dump is cleared? Like old flooded engine?

Best of luck!

 

[Ribs77]

Hey guys new question separate topic, being new don't know where to post it. I can't find any stations anymore where everything now is 10 % ethonal. How do you overcome that problem. With the new AR195 I must use 91 octane, and I purchased Sta-bil marine which is specifically developed for ethonal laced fuel and marine engines. So any ideas? How do you guys overcome that problem?

I run 10% ethanol premium (91 or 92 octane). It's fine! But I do add regular Sta-Bil at the end of the season when I'm going to store the boat for a while.

 

[nrightaway]

Update on hard starting AR195 - Sorry it took so long to get back. Took the boat to a new dealer in Lake Havasu basically because I refused to accept that a brand new boat should have starting issues. Now the technician did a complete diagnoses of the system, checked all the pressures, checked the pickup coil, and checked for any codes, all was good. Then he called Yamaha and somehow transferred all the engine information to them for analisis, and was told by the Yamaha engineer that because of the supercharged engine design it has a tendency to take 2 or 3 maybe 4 times to start when it has been sitting for some time. They said it is very common but not a repair issue, and there is basically nothing you can do about it except make sure the plugs are clean. They said, (and it is all in writing) that all the pressures need to be built up, which may take 3 or 4 times cranking it, to start again because of the supercharger. Hopefully this post will help any yamaha boat owners with the SVHO engine who have this problem and are concerned with it like I was. Thanks

 

[nrightaway]

I totally agree with you that the hard starting is ridiculous on a new boat. Unfortunately youre probably going to have to live with it. I have the same issue on both my 2022 svhos and never found a solution. Ive spoke with other owners who have the same problem. It takes 3-5 starts for mine to stay running. I usually do this at home before headed to the launch that way im assured it will start fine at the lake. Its embarrassing when youre launching and it takes 3 or 4 trys and other people are there. I hear comments like that's ridiculous for a boat that new. Ive done new plugs multiple times. Changed to a high flow air filter. Ive tried higher octane fuel. I even tried a Riva racing tune and nothing has improved it. If you ever find a solution please share it on here.

You need to check my latest reply at the bottom of this page, BTW thank you for response I appreciated someone who actually felt my pain..

 

[Beachbummer]

I would still humbly suggest you try a key dance first to see if it helps. Instead of cracking 4 times .. The next time try a key dance first. Off to on (don't crank) wait 3 seconds, back to off. Give it 3 seconds and try again. 4 times. Did it make a difference?

Let us know. Best of luck

 

[nrightaway]

I would still humbly suggest you try a key dance first to see if it helps. Instead of cracking 4 times .. The next time try a key dance first. Off to on (don't crank) wait 3 seconds, back to off. Give it 3 seconds and try again. 4 times. Did it make a difference?

Let us know. Best of luck

Thanks, look at the (Update on hard starting AR195) about 2 posts up. Yes I tried that too. The only thing that actually made an improvement was changing the plugs. Went from 4 or 5 cranks to 3. Plugs were gapped at minimum.